ph0ngwh0ng
Well-Known Member
Is this a good RO/DI system?
http://www.goreef.com/Vertex-Deluxe-Puratek-4-stage-RO-DI-System-200GPD.html
http://www.goreef.com/Vertex-Deluxe-Puratek-4-stage-RO-DI-System-200GPD.html
Need input on RO/DI system
- Thread starter ph0ngwh0ng
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It's probably fine. I've heard that DI is not really necessary for beermaking, so it might be overkill. I know someone who bought one from Bulk Reef Supply for like $130 and it seems to be doing pretty good for her so far. And she makes quite a lot of beer...
NervousDad
BFM
I would personally check on eBay... and I don't think you need the DI section.
I always used this system with my reef tank and it provided water with 0 total dissolved solids (which I don't think is a good thing for beer)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AQUARIUM-CO...356?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb7e2b7e4
I always used this system with my reef tank and it provided water with 0 total dissolved solids (which I don't think is a good thing for beer)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AQUARIUM-CO...356?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb7e2b7e4
ph0ngwh0ng
Well-Known Member
I was led to think, from reading Yooper's posts, that DI water wasn't a bad thing since you could then build your brewing water from scratch. Opinions?
I have a deal for one at 150$.
I would like to use this for drinking water also, but drinking deionized water is not recommended. Can I modify it to go to the kitchen faucet after RO? I tend to believe so according to the schematic found here:
http://www.vertexaquaristik.com/Portals/0/products/waterPurifyingSystems/ro-diSystems/puratekManual200.pdf
If I install this on my kitchen faucet, will it reduce the water pressure?
Will it eliminate chloramines after RO or just after DI?
I have a deal for one at 150$.
I would like to use this for drinking water also, but drinking deionized water is not recommended. Can I modify it to go to the kitchen faucet after RO? I tend to believe so according to the schematic found here:
http://www.vertexaquaristik.com/Portals/0/products/waterPurifyingSystems/ro-diSystems/puratekManual200.pdf
If I install this on my kitchen faucet, will it reduce the water pressure?
Will it eliminate chloramines after RO or just after DI?
GotPushrods
Well-Known Member
RO does the first 98% of the work. DI does the last 2%, and is unnecessary for brewing purposes. DI is fine if you've already got it, but by all means don't pay for it just for brewing. 0% vs 2% of original ion content is virtually a rounding error as far is a brewer is concerned. Might as well be the same thing.
And also by all means, don't spend $500 bucks on an RO system. 150-200 gets you a great system. A 75 GPD Dow-Filmtec membrane gives me 98.5% rejection and closer to 100 GPD. It is also widely considered the best small residential membrane you can buy.
And also by all means, don't spend $500 bucks on an RO system. 150-200 gets you a great system. A 75 GPD Dow-Filmtec membrane gives me 98.5% rejection and closer to 100 GPD. It is also widely considered the best small residential membrane you can buy.
I think that you're talking about me? (It's the "she makes quite a lot of beer- I don't think you know too many women who make a lot of beer and bought the same RO system.......)
I bought mine for $119, but it's $129 now. Here's something like I have: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-4-stage-value-ro-di-system-75gpd.html but I got a "no DI" one that was a bit cheaper.
You don't need the DI, as the RO is close enough and cheaper!
You definitely DON'T want to take out all the ionic content of the tap water and then add it back in. Including DI stages is overkill. In fact RO is overkill for most water supplies. Where the water is suited, a 'coarser' technology called nanofiltration is preferred for creating a water supply for brewing. It uses less energy and wastes less water. However, you can't get nanofiltration membranes in the typical home system size. You would have to get a very large capacity system to be able to use nanofiltration membranes. So, we are stuck with RO for now with small systems.
Since we do want ions in our brewing water, it makes no sense to remove them all with DI process. The most important thing is to understand what ions ARE in the final RO water and build from there.
Since we do want ions in our brewing water, it makes no sense to remove them all with DI process. The most important thing is to understand what ions ARE in the final RO water and build from there.
This gives you ultimate control over the ion content of your brewing water and eliminates, (for the most part with RO, completely with DI) , the effects of variations in the quality of your supply with season, purchase of water by your municipality from multiple sources etc.
Other than the fact that it tastes pretty flat I can't see anything wrong with drinking RO water. I drink it all the time as do many people.
Most RO systems get plumbed to a separate faucet. This is generally just simpler to do and as a separate plumbing run is made one can use the corrosion resistant tubing that is required for low ion water.
There is a large pressure drop across RO membranes. If the processes water needs to be available at pressure then it must be pressurized somehow. In the simplest systems the output side of the membrane goes directly to a bladder tank. As the tank fills its internal pressure goes up, the pressure across the membrane goes down and the permeate produced per unit time goes down. In other systems the permeate is stored in an 'atmospheric tank' i.e. one open to atmospheric pressure thus insuring maximum pressure across the membrane and maximum permeate flow rate. Treated water from the atmospheric tank is then pumped directly to a bowser (similar to systems used in boats and RVs) or to a bladder/pressure tank.
It is essential that chlorine and chloramines be removed from the water before it reaches the RO membrane which would be poisoned by it. Systems, therefore, contain carbon filters upstream of the membrane. If the system you install does not have such a filter you must install one.
ph0ngwh0ng
Well-Known Member
ajdelange, I won't forget about you in my will. Never has one of my posts been answered so thoroughly. Brings a tear to my eyes...
So I understand that the output of these machines is a bit like the one of a water filter equipped fridge, since the system I'm looking at doesn't have a pressure tank.
I haven't found any water diagnostic service where I live that is cheap enough.
Having all the ions removed would be a good thing for me, I guess, because my municipal water's ion content isn't constant. That way, I would be able to completely shape the water to my needs, and have a stable water profile. And, the system I want to buy is cheap, 200GPD and RO/DI. Overkill, maybe, but since it's cheaper for me, even though it's used (shipping charges are huge since I live in Canada, eh!)
So I understand that the output of these machines is a bit like the one of a water filter equipped fridge, since the system I'm looking at doesn't have a pressure tank.
I haven't found any water diagnostic service where I live that is cheap enough.
Having all the ions removed would be a good thing for me, I guess, because my municipal water's ion content isn't constant. That way, I would be able to completely shape the water to my needs, and have a stable water profile. And, the system I want to buy is cheap, 200GPD and RO/DI. Overkill, maybe, but since it's cheaper for me, even though it's used (shipping charges are huge since I live in Canada, eh!)
I still dont want to tackle the job of learning water..... but guess I need to.
I can PM info on where to send the money.
In a sense but it removes more things than just the filter in most refrigerators.
An alternative is to buy a test kit from an aquarium supplier, water supplier, or water testing supply company (Hach, LaMotte...). This does not give you the complete picture that a lab test does but if you do go the RO route you will not need any testing beyond a simple TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) test which is easily done with an inexpensive electronic tester.
That really is one of the major advantages of RO.
I've noticed that but in La Belle Province what I notice even more are the appalling taxes. I live but 4 miles from the border so I just have stuff shipped to Vermont and can pop down there and pick it up quicker than I could get into the nearest real town in QC (Magog). Plus, depending on who is on at customs, I usually, but not always, avoid most of the tax.
I realize this isn't workable from Trois-Riviers.
haeffnkr
Well-Known Member
Hi,
I also am looking to purchase a ro/di system.
Since I have been using my buddies ro/di water he filters for his fish tank for brewing, my beers have never been better.
After reading these comments I am unclear about pros/cons of having the DI filter.
Can someone please explain what the cons are for the DI filter?
Also my local water comes from a river and 9 different wells, I am in the middle of the town.... I have NO idea what comes out of my tap at any one time... could be well water, could be STL river water or most likely an usknown ratio of blended water from the 2 sources.
Because of the unknown make up of my source water...how would I know what the 1-2% is left in my RO water that I would be brewing with?
If my thinking is correct and because of the unknown water make up I am leaning towards getting a DI filter.
thoughts?
thanks in advance
Kevin
I also am looking to purchase a ro/di system.
Since I have been using my buddies ro/di water he filters for his fish tank for brewing, my beers have never been better.
After reading these comments I am unclear about pros/cons of having the DI filter.
Can someone please explain what the cons are for the DI filter?
Also my local water comes from a river and 9 different wells, I am in the middle of the town.... I have NO idea what comes out of my tap at any one time... could be well water, could be STL river water or most likely an usknown ratio of blended water from the 2 sources.
Because of the unknown make up of my source water...how would I know what the 1-2% is left in my RO water that I would be brewing with?
If my thinking is correct and because of the unknown water make up I am leaning towards getting a DI filter.
thoughts?
thanks in advance
Kevin
The primary Con is the additional cost with little useful benefit to brewery use.
Unless the water sources vary tremendously, the resulting variation in RO water quality is going to be quite small. With ion rejection in RO varying between about 92 and 99 percent depending on the ion, you can see that a 100 ppm variation in an ion concentration in the feed water will only result in about 8 ppm (or less) variation in that ion's concentration in the product water. That is a huge variation in feed water quality and a trivial difference in the product water. The only ion that I am concerned with that degree of precision is magnesium, since its recommended upper limit is only 40 ppm. All the rest of the ions can be off by double that amount and I wouldn't be concerned in my brewing. An additional bonus is that the rejection rate for Mg is more typically around 98% and that 100 ppm feed water variation would actually only produce a feed water Mg variation of about 2 ppm. Variation in feed water quality is only a small concern regarding product water quality.
Unless you have another use for your purified water that requires ion-free water, including DI in a brewing water treatment system is a waste of money.
No cons really except that the resins need to be replaced or recharged periodically and that's a bit more maintenance work. If you don't recharge them they won't remove the remaining ions but as you don't really need to remove the remaining ions why go to the trouble and expense? If you get a good package deal on an RO/DI system take it but you might want to bypass the DI part.
If you are experimenting with the effects of ions and really want to know ion content precisely then you might want to have the DI. If you are feeding a lab ultra pure water system the purer the water going in the longer the cartridges in that machine will last and you might want RO/DI feed for that reason.
If you are experimenting with the effects of ions and really want to know ion content precisely then you might want to have the DI. If you are feeding a lab ultra pure water system the purer the water going in the longer the cartridges in that machine will last and you might want RO/DI feed for that reason.
