Get ready for the rebirth of cider in America.

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michael88n

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Mornin',
Since my return from A-stan, I find myself in a "wow, did you see this?" state from time to time. I ran across this article that I found interesting about American cider. Not sure if anyone else saw it, but I posted the link since I couldn't find it after using the search function here.

http://www.slate.com/id/2231001

As a true red-blooded American, I think I'm going to follow in the footsteps of another patriot: "John Adams drank a tankard of cider nearly every morning of his life."

Cheers to us,
Michael
 
Very cool. Although my ultimate dream is to own and operate a brewery, a cidery would be pretty awesome.
 
I liked this line:
"America's current beer behemoths use quite a bit of cheap and flavorless corn to brew their insipid tea. Our forefathers knew a failed experiment when they tasted it."
 
Here in Sacramento CA, we are lucky to have access to cider from a great local brewer. The Two Rivers Cider company has some great products for the local market, and it is sitting up the hill in prime apple growing real estate. Sadly you have to be from this area to get it, as it has only been available on tap at local breweries and restaurants.

Though it does look like it may get a bit wider distribution soon, as they are starting to do some bottling. Our local Whole Foods markets just started carrying 2 of their ciders in bottles, so maybe it will spread from here.
 
Basic Brewing had a very interesting podcast with an author and advocate for cider making - it was extremely interesting. I'm interested in the extremely local nature of cider making and it's connection to our history and culture.
 
Now if western Canada could do the same... what gets called cider in BC isn't cider at all, usually.
 
I'm glad to see America noticing cider more. In other parts of the world (mainly European and African countries) I can order multiple ciders in a bar. I would love to see this more in America, rather than it being a novelty.
 
Now if western Canada could do the same... what gets called cider in BC isn't cider at all, usually.

Ah, you would be referring to Wyder. Honestly, if it comes in a six pack, it probably was made from concentrate with sugar. It's got to have the cider apples!

I haven't had a chance to try it, but I know out on Vancouver Island there is Sea Cider. http://www.seacider.ca/news.html. I don't know what they use or anything other than they are there.

Old Time Cider indicates there are two others in BC. http://oldtimecider.com/north-american-cider-map-project/
 
Ah, you would be referring to Wyder. Honestly, if it comes in a six pack, it probably was made from concentrate with sugar. It's got to have the cider apples!

I haven't had a chance to try it, but I know out on Vancouver Island there is Sea Cider. http://www.seacider.ca/news.html. I don't know what they use or anything other than they are there.

Old Time Cider indicates there are two others in BC. http://oldtimecider.com/north-american-cider-map-project/

No, much worse. Alcopops get called cider by the BC liquor monopoly, and I'm aware of those cideries, but they don't sell their product in any BC liquor stores. According to the product guide, Weston's gets sold here, but I've never seen it.

I find some eating apples make excellent ciders tastewise, just that they are a bit more of a pain to scrat and press because of their texture. Some varieties like spartan or braeburn make very good tasting cider if blended with other apples. Braeburn is even good on it's own, and has a texture that isn't too hard to work with. The problem with the region I live in is that it is very dry and hot, rather unlike England where most of the cider varieties seem to come from. My boss tried a row out of golden russets, and the trees look bloody miserable.
 
I find some eating apples make excellent ciders tastewise, just that they are a bit more of a pain to scrat and press because of their texture. Some varieties like spartan or braeburn make very good tasting cider if blended with other apples. Braeburn is even good on it's own, and has a texture that isn't too hard to work with. The problem with the region I live in is that it is very dry and hot, rather unlike England where most of the cider varieties seem to come from. My boss tried a row out of golden russets, and the trees look bloody miserable.

True. Red Barn Cider makes a good semi-sweet Jonagold cider that I really like, and I recently bought a Granny Smith cider that I have yet to open. Myself - I've been buying fresh juice made from Red & Yellow Delicious, Braeburn, and Fiji, and the last two aren't really considered traditional cider apples, partly because the breed is so young that nobody has really experimented with it.

But you got to admit - a cider made from fresh juice with no sugar or water added tastes far better than something made from concentrate.
 
The problem with the region I live in is that it is very dry and hot, rather unlike England where most of the cider varieties seem to come from. My boss tried a row out of golden russets, and the trees look bloody miserable.

Dry regions are actually better for growing apples because disease problems are less and you won't have the usual insects. What you need is some deep soil and a bit of irrigation for summer, spring frosts might be more of a problem.
Cider apples may have originated in England but the apple industry there is in pretty bad shape. One big problem in the cider world is the flood of cheap, low quality concentrate from china, which produces more apples than the rest of the world combined.
 
I highly recommend Apples for the 21st Century. Not exactly a cider apple book, but the author talks about his personal experience growing that particular apple in Oregon, Minnasota, and references other places. It doesn't feel so much like a text book where they say, "Zones 4-9, except is wet" and you are like, "But wait, my region isn't wet or dry. Will it still work for me?"
 
Dry regions are actually better for growing apples because disease problems are less and you won't have the usual insects. What you need is some deep soil and a bit of irrigation for summer, spring frosts might be more of a problem.
Cider apples may have originated in England but the apple industry there is in pretty bad shape. One big problem in the cider world is the flood of cheap, low quality concentrate from china, which produces more apples than the rest of the world combined.

I know all about the merits of hot dry regions for apple growing. I've been working in apple orchards here in the interior of BC year round for a mighty long time, and will probably go until my body quits on me, so I've seen a lot of stuff get tried out, and I've seen the difference in many varieties being grown in different parts. It can be a night and day difference. Some are just not well suited for the climate, like cortlands, macintosh and spartan (even though people grow them) and stuff like honeycrisp. When conditions are too hot and dry calcium is depleted from the fruit and bitter pit happens, which renders the fruit unmarketable (and very, very ugly), and without morning dew and cold nights macintosh and spartan won't colour the way they will elsewhere, where conditions are cooler and more moist. Cortland aren't even grown here because of this, and even braeburn and fuji have problems with bitter pit. What I am worried about with English apples mostly is bitter pit. Also, the season here is somewhat shorter. The last stuff gets picked in November, where I believe the season can go into december in england.

We have the same problem over here with the Chinese competition, but it's only really a problem for juice apples, which are basically anything too crappy for market or packing. Also, silly new pseudo-hygeine laws (as activist Vandana Shiva calls them) are making it impossible for farmers in Canada, particularly organic farmers to sell their windfallen apples for juice. There is no danger of e. coli in fully rotted manure. It's ridiculous.
 
Also, silly new pseudo-hygeine laws (as activist Vandana Shiva calls them) are making it impossible for farmers in Canada, particularly organic farmers to sell their windfallen apples for juice. There is no danger of e. coli in fully rotted manure. It's ridiculous.

I have had arguments with Cvillekevin on this forum about the safety of windfall apples, in England the traditional time to harvest cider apples is when 1/3 of the crop has fallen, the rest are then shaken to the ground and swept up by harvesters. Many people now have a distrust of nature and believe anything that touches the ground must be poisoned. A very sad state of affairs.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about apples in general, its very true in my experience that different varieties are good in different climates. I have a bramleys and the fruit always gets cooked and sunburnt in the hot weather, yet it is the most popular variety in england. I have an American variety, twenty ounce, that does very well for me and seems to love the heat.
Colour is always a big issue for apple growers, but doesn't matter for cider along with other cosmetic issues. here in Australia consumers won't buy striped apples. I'm planning to grow about 40 trees, widely spaced on seedling stock, to try and sell a couple of thousand litres each year.
 
Funny how things change. The idea of eating apples only goes back to WW1, before than almost all apples in the USA were used for cider or cooking. Part of that is apples don't breed true, but you can make cider out of almost any apple.
 
What are the laws of selling cider in Australia? Is there a limit on the quantity?

Liquor laws are a state responsibility. In my state it is legal to make and sell cider as a producer as long as you grow the fruit yourself. If your sales are under $1million you don't have to pay excise. You can get a license to sell cider from bought fruit but it is more difficult and expensive, and you have to pay excise. Producers are allowed to sell their cider at the "cellar door" and also at farmers markets. Cider is treated the same as wine, I'm not really sure but I don't think adding sugar would be legal, would need to be pure juice, which is fine by me.

There is no limit to quantity you can make or sell.
 
I'm not really sure but I don't think adding sugar would be legal, would need to be pure juice, which is fine by me.

It's called chaptalization. Wikipedia has a list of countries in which it is legal and illegal in, if it is up to date. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaptalization

When it comes to cider and wine, I'm in the no chaptalization camp, though I will back sweeten, which is different. Still not sure how I feel about it with other fruit fermentation drinks other than mead.
 
The word chaptalization only applies to grape wine, I know that is illegal in Australia but I'm not sure about apples.
 
Re: BC ciders:

The Sea Ciders I've had have been pretty iffy (although a damn sight better than the mass-market alcopops they try to call cider), but Red Roof from Oliver makes a very nice, tart cider and Merridale from Vancouver Island has a range of craft ciders from the merely tasty to the truly excellent.

I'm not sure if you can get them in any private stores around the province, but in Vancouber they're all available at Brewery Creek on Main Street.
 
Greg - No yearly limit and no tax up to 1M in alcohol revenues for orchards? That sounds like the Promised Land. What's the catch? Is there good apple country around Perth?

The article about Poverty Lane Orchards was really interesting in that it described how they let their apples sit on the ground. It sounds like its a combination of mainly four factors: type of apple, climate, types of critters/parasites and the post harvest quality control that determine whether this can be successful. From personal experience, I'd be more concerned about mold, slugs and maggots getting to it, as we can get some warmish humid nights here through November, but I can see how this could work in a drier climate that is also cold enough so most of the insect population is killed off earlier.

This year Albemarle CiderWorks opened up just down the road from here. They were running a vintage apple orchard before opening their cidery. Their cider is good and has been popular, which is good to see http://www.vintagevirginiaapples.com/ Foggy Ridge is another great Virginia cidery. Their Sweet Stayman is my favorite commercial cider. http://www.foggyridgecider.com/our-cider/our-cider

Yan, does Northern Spy grow where you are? That is a good cider apple that likes cold climates and they are good eating too.

I hope cider will keep catching on so orchards will plant more cider apple trees. The main orchard I go to has been phasing out its Winesaps, which is a bummer, but unfortunately they dont get enough demand for them. On the plus side they are doing more Pink Lady which makes great cider. A lot of orchards around here switched to red and golden delicious a generation ago because the juice yields were higher. Now they are switching back to varieties with more flavor because they cant compete with the Chinese for bulk and people are getting more educated about apples. This year was the first time I've seen Northern Spy, Albemarle Pippin and Black Twig locally available as cider grade apples. I hope the trend continues.
 
Kevin the only catch is that aussies don't drink much cider. Apples grow fine in Perth, Pink Lady was bred near Perth. There is some great country south of perth, good vineyards and surf as well.
 
Re: BC ciders:

The Sea Ciders I've had have been pretty iffy (although a damn sight better than the mass-market alcopops they try to call cider), but Red Roof from Oliver makes a very nice, tart cider and Merridale from Vancouver Island has a range of craft ciders from the merely tasty to the truly excellent.

I'm not sure if you can get them in any private stores around the province, but in Vancouber they're all available at Brewery Creek on Main Street.

Oliver! That's just over a hill from me. I'll have to check it out for sure. Thanks.
 
The main orchard I go to has been phasing out its Winesaps, which is a bummer, but unfortunately they dont get enough demand for them. On the plus side they are doing more Pink Lady which makes great cider. A lot of orchards around here switched to red and golden delicious a generation ago because the juice yields were higher. Now they are switching back to varieties with more flavor because they cant compete with the Chinese for bulk and people are getting more educated about apples. This year was the first time I've seen Northern Spy, Albemarle Pippin and Black Twig locally available as cider grade apples. I hope the trend continues.

Kevin: Have you, or have you heard of anyone making cider from Honeycrisp apples? I'm curious as to the results. Regards, GF.
 
I'm all for the return of cider in America. I love beer, but I also love me some cider, and not that sixer stuff.
 
Speaking of readily available commercial cider, is Harpoon's any good? I see it all the time, but never pull the trigger.
 
GF - yep, I've heard of using using Honeycrisp for cider. Its supposed to be pretty good. Around here they are an early season apple. I tried to get some at the beginning of the season but no one had any #2's and the regular bushel price was too steep
 
Speaking of readily available commercial cider, is Harpoon's any good? I see it all the time, but never pull the trigger.

I was at their brewery in October. From the little bit of brain picking I did I got out of them that they use an ale yeast for their cider. It's similar to Original Sin, maybe a little sweeter. Not bad, but nothing amazing.
 
I just had a bottle of this the Solstice Cider made by http://organicscrumpy.com/index.html
and it was like having a slice of apple pie! A little too sweet for my tastes, but good enough that have to go back and try the regular farmhouse scrumpy. I read a review and it said it was not sweet and not over dry. It sounds like it is just what I like!

If I ever won the lottery I would buy or start an orchard and would make cider/mead full time =) We all must have our dreams!

Now back to making my apple/pear graff :D
 
Kevin: Have you, or have you heard of anyone making cider from Honeycrisp apples? I'm curious as to the results. Regards, GF.


I made some graff and a cyser from some cider that had honeycrisp in the blend. It came out a bit more tart than (more bite) than the later season graffs I did. They also had less sugar so the ABV was lower. I plan on making a straight cider with them next year. I also made a cyser using them. That is currently stuck. I have to get a gallon starter going to unstick it.
 
Now if western Canada could do the same... what gets called cider in BC isn't cider at all, usually.

If you're talking about that Grower's suger water than yup not even close to cider. Makes me feel ill ever time I drink it. TOO much sugar.
 
I made some graff and a cyser from some cider that had honeycrisp in the blend. It came out a bit more tart than (more bite) than the later season graffs I did. They also had less sugar so the ABV was lower. I plan on making a straight cider with them next year. I also made a cyser using them. That is currently stuck. I have to get a gallon starter going to unstick it.

Interesting. I had some concerns that Honeycrisp juice might ferment out too tart, as 1 of it's parents is MacIntosh. I have GOT to find some real cider apple juice.
 
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