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jchap86

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Ive just done my first home brew using
2 x 1.7kg can Original Series Stout*
1.5kg Thomas Coopers Dark Malt Extract
500g Dextrose, about 200g honey
7g Coopers yeast
Made up to 21 litres.. i have just checked on it after about 24 hours and the mix has bubbled out of the airlock.. i have also just taken a hydrometer reading and its off the scale! Guessing around 1.060 if it went up to that! Current temp of brew is 24 degrees celcius... Please help! Tried to attach pic but app keeps crashing

ForumRunner_20130116_141420.png
 
Do a search for both "blow off tube" and "swamp cooler".

The swamp cooler should be relatively easy to throw together and will get your fermenter's temps down lower than they are right now. Probably best to aim for about 18 deg C, or even a few below that. The Blow off tube will probably become even more necessary over the next day or so.

Judging by the quantities of fermentables you've used I'd say your OG is a good bit higher than the 60s, that 7g packet of cooper's yeast is way underpitching and won't be enough to chomp through all those sugars so there's a good chance you'll end up with a high gravity, stalled fermentation and really sweet beer.

Swamp cooler, blow off tube, more yeast, re-hydrate it if it's dry yeast and you might also want to do a bit of a search for hop tea additions, so you can add some more flavour, aroma and maybe even a little more bittering (although two cans of stout will probably give the brew a reasonable amount of bittering).

Best of luck and don't hesitate to ask more questions if need be.:mug:
 
BTW,

adding those ingredients into beercalculus gives an OG of 1.085 and anticipated FG of 1.021:

Malt & Fermentables

% KG EBC Yield
61% 3.400 Coopers Stout Kit Late Boil 73 %
27% 1.500 Coopers Dark Malt Extract DME Late Boil 97 %
9% 0.500 Corn Sugar (Dextrose) Boil 100 %
4% 0.200 Honey Boil 75 %


Specific Gravity
1.085 OG
(1.076 to 1.088)
20.4° Plato
1.021 FG
(1.019 to 1.023)
5.3° Plato
Color
185° EBC
94° SRM
Black

Hops

Use Time Grams Hop Variety AA » IBU

Select an ingredient

Add
Bitterness
0 IBU
ƒ: Tinseth
0 HBU
BU:GU
0

Yeast


Cooper's Ale Dry Yeast
yeast in form with medium flocculation and 73% attenuation


Alcohol
8.3% ABV
6% ABW
Calories
281
per 12 oz.
Miscellaneous Ingredients

Not really sure of the best way to calculate the hop bitterness you'll get from the kit cans when using beercalculus. On another recipe calculator I've used you enter 1 Oz/28g of the hops used in at 5 minutes, per 1.7 kg can of extract. I think Cooper's are known for using Pride of Ringwood as their bittering hop in the extract kit cans.
 
Looks like it is going to be an awesome beer. Yeast are having a good time. It happens to me sometimes when brewing stouts. I would just set up a blow off tube as Ogri has suggested, clean up, wait 2-3 weeks then rack to bottle or keg.
 
Fingers crossed it'll work out, I've read few different things about yeast and have thrown in 14 grams in total but suppose part of the experience is trial and error! Hydrometer reading is now 1.040 and its been happily bubbling away after adding blow off tube. I have also moved it to a cooler area and temp is now closer to 19 degrees.. cheers for the feedback and advice everyone. So far tastes a little sweet, will this change a lot by the 6 week mark? Thinking about starting another brew.. any recomendations on IPA? Want to make a batch without cheating with the LME this time, sooner I get my head around all this the better!
 
Fingers crossed it'll work out, I've read few different things about yeast and have thrown in 14 grams in total but suppose part of the experience is trial and error! Hydrometer reading is now 1.040 and its been happily bubbling away after adding blow off tube. I have also moved it to a cooler area and temp is now closer to 19 degrees.. cheers for the feedback and advice everyone. So far tastes a little sweet, will this change a lot by the 6 week mark? Thinking about starting another brew.. any recomendations on IPA? Want to make a batch without cheating with the LME this time, sooner I get my head around all this the better!

I entered the estimated OG from above into the yeast calculator at Mrmalty.com and it says 17g dry yeast is the optimum amount, so you are only a little bit under. It might just add some more interesting esters from the yeast being a little stressed or fermentation might stall a bit early leaving you with a sweeter beer because the yeast can't muster the strength to chomp through the remaining sugars. Just have to wait and see.

Sounds like you've got fermentation temps down to a more reasonable level. Once the initial vigorous phase winds down it might be a good idea to put your fermenter somewhere warmer again. This will help the yeast stay active so that hopefully you'll get close to the required FG (that was 1.021 according to beercalculus) plus the yeast will do a clean up of some of the less desirable fermentation by-products. Leaving the brew in the primary fermenter for at least 3 weeks from pitching yeast will yield a beer that should taste different from how it does now as you're not even a week in yet, are you? Priming, carbonating and conditioning will see some slight changes in flavour also. Deent levels of carbonation will probably add a sort of bite that will slightly offset some of the sweetness.

Have a look here, there're loads of recipes for IPAs. Might be one that particularly takes your fancy.
 
Thanks mate, I've bookmarked all the sites you have mentioned.. It'll be 1 week on Tuesday, was just a little worried if the sweetness is an indicator of the end product... how long have you been brewing for? Sounds like you have it all down pat! In saying about leaving it in primary fermenter for at least 3 weeks, what are the benefits if Im going to bottle and the FG stays the same for at least a day or 2 before bottling and leaving for at least another 3 weeks? Ive heard theres not too much point although not sure how good the source was
 
Thanks mate, I've bookmarked all the sites you have mentioned.. It'll be 1 week on Tuesday, was just a little worried if the sweetness is an indicator of the end product... how long have you been brewing for? Sounds like you have it all down pat! In saying about leaving it in primary fermenter for at least 3 weeks, what are the benefits if Im going to bottle and the FG stays the same for at least a day or 2 before bottling and leaving for at least another 3 weeks? Ive heard theres not too much point although not sure how good the source was

Did my first brew in September 2011. Didn't think it turned out too bad, at the time, but the last bottle, drunk at nearly exactly a year later, confirmed that it wasn't all that. main thing I learned from that brew was the importance of keeping fermentation temps controlled as best you can during the first few days. Probably about 35 to 40 Brews under my belt since then and still a relative beginner but turning out some beers that I'm really pleased with:tank:
My first All Grain, BIAB, brewed back in December, I set out to make something close to an old speckled/crafty hen. Drinking it right now. Fell a bit short of my goal but as far as flavour goes it's practically an exact clone of a Belhaven Twisted thistle IPA, (did a side by side taste test today) except that it has an ABV of about 6.9%.


With regards the three weeks from pitching yeast. Basically the initial fermentation phase (attenuation) is very often finished within a week and, technically, you could bottle there and then. BUT, if you give the yeast another few days, at a temperature that helps them stay active, they clean up the majority of off flavours and aromas (conditioning phase)caused by compounds that are by-products of the fermentation process and/or conditions that stressed the yeast. Giving it another bit longer will give the yeast time to settle/flocculate out and compact into a more solid trub in the bottom of the fermenter which helps you get a nice, clearer, beer going into the bottles.

After bottling, three weeks conditioning at about 20*C should see an average gravity beer attain a decent amount of carbonation and start to mature to the point where it is ready to drink. Depending on the type of beer it could be drunk after chilling in the fridge for another couple of days or so. Wheat beers, really hoppy IPAs and some other lighter gravity or low ABV beers come into that category. Higher ABV beers, porters, stouts can definitely mellow and become way better after a few months, or longer in some cases, of conditioning.

Essentially, the more patience you have, when it comes to popping the cap off a bottle and drinking the contents the bigger the rewards but, let's face it, waiting for your first few brews to achieve perfection isn't an easy task;) I'd say that, by all means, throw a bottle into the fridge for a couple of days after a week of conditioning and give it a try, one at two weeks, one at three weeks etc, etc and see for yourself. Definitely try to go for three weeks of primary fermentation before bottling for your first couple of batches, though, as I'm reasonably sure it's a worthwhile strategy. After that, try some shorter primary fermentation schedules and see if the beer is up to par for you.:mug:
 
I've changed my mantra of the three week bit a few months ago through observation & my notes. Long story short,I check the gravity at 2 weeks in primary to see where It's at & how long it might need to finish. When FG is stable 3-7 days to clean up & settle out clear or slightly misty. Then bottle for 3-4 weeks at 70 or a bit better. Then at least one week frisge time for decent carbonation & head. Two weeks for thicker head & longer lasting carbonation. Also,chill haze comes up as soon as the beer cools down. It can take 5 days or more to settle out like a fog. Fridge time also compacts the trub on the bottom of the bottle if given adequate time.
 
I've changed my mantra of the three week bit a few months ago through observation & my notes. Long story short,I check the gravity at 2 weeks in primary to see where It's at & how long it might need to finish. When FG is stable 3-7 days to clean up & settle out clear or slightly misty. Then bottle for 3-4 weeks at 70 or a bit better. Then at least one week frisge time for decent carbonation & head. Two weeks for thicker head & longer lasting carbonation. Also,chill haze comes up as soon as the beer cools down. It can take 5 days or more to settle out like a fog. Fridge time also compacts the trub on the bottom of the bottle if given adequate time.


So if you're checking gravity at two weeks, couple to three days to ascertain a stable measurement, 3 - 7 days to clean and clear you're going closer to 4 weeks primary a lot of the time?
I end up 4-5 weeks in primary quite often but that's more down to suddenly having something else I need to do on a weekend I'd planned to bottle.

But yeah, I still think that, assuming no stalled fermentation or any other major problem, three weeks primary is a good objective to aim for, for someone in the beginning stages of their brewing career, as impatience can get the better of you.

Some of the really experienced/practiced brewers on here can turn a well brewed beer out for bottling or kegging after 10-14 days, but they are pitching substantial yeast starters and keeping flawlessly controlled fermentation temps down to a fine art. Something that not many new brewers fully realize the importance of or have the means to achieve.
 
Ive just tried a bottle and its bubbly, a bit sweeter than I expected and also a little thinner, almost like ive watered it down with a cider... could this be because of carbination drops? It tasted much better before i bottled... I used 2 per 740ml bottle as on the instructions. Will this change over time? I bottled exactly 2 weeks ago after gravity remained same over 3 days... very disappointed!! :/
 
Ive just tried a bottle and its bubbly, a bit sweeter than I expected and also a little thinner, almost like ive watered it down with a cider... could this be because of carbination drops? It tasted much better before i bottled... I used 2 per 740ml bottle as on the instructions. Will this change over time? I bottled exactly 2 weeks ago after gravity remained same over 3 days... very disappointed!! :/


Mate, you only brewed this batch back on January 15th, right??

As I tried to express earlier this beer would definitely benefit from, at least, a three week primary. It's estimated (from your ingredients list) starting gravity was something like 1.085 and you only used 14g of the Cooper's yeast (not even sure how well that'd handle such a high gravity brew, and Extract stout kits are a pretty intense load of malts for the yeast to try and consume) so, if any weird by products were produced from the overworked and stressed yeast, having the brew in primary for three weeks would have allowed for a bit of a cleanup/conditioning phase. By the way. What was the Final Gravity, before you bottled?

Looks like you went a bit over one week primary and have done two weeks in bottles, so far. Being as it's probably quite a high ABV% AND a VERY STOUT stout, I'd expect it to take even longer to really mature, to the best it possibly could. If you are storing the bottles at about 70*F, 20*C, you'll get it carbed/conditioned eventually. Just keep on putting a bottle in the fridge, for a few days to a week, every week until it seems the batch is fully carbed, then chuck however many you want to in to chill/cold condition. Just remember though, just because they are carbed doesn't necessarily mean they are anywhere near their prime. The "Watered down with cider" flavour you describe suggests very "green", as in nowhere near peak condition or fully matured, beer.

Personally, I'd leave this batch for a good long while and brew up a couple of lower gravity, quicker to ferment and condition, batches so that I could be drinking decent beer soon and then enjoying the black stuff after a suitable amount of conditioning time.

Best of luck:mug:
 
1.022 was the FG. I read on the coopers website that the chance of infection is a lot higher once primary fermentation is complete but shouldve listened to you. I also read that cidery taste & bubbles can sometimes be due to sanitation or over priming bottles but i couldnt of been more careful... one other thing i read was if temp is too high at start of fermentation? What do you find works best as far as sanitising? It tastes kinda ok when its flat! Hopefully a few more weeks in the shed will fix it :) otherwise i'll definately have another crack at it, recipe has a lot of potential with possibly a few changes.. i started a light german bock nearly 2 weeks ago, would this be better left in primary for 3 weeks aswell? I just threw in 2 x 1.7kg Thomas Coopers Heritage Lager and 2 x 500g Coopers Light Dry Malt
 
So if you're checking gravity at two weeks, couple to three days to ascertain a stable measurement, 3 - 7 days to clean and clear you're going closer to 4 weeks primary a lot of the time?
I end up 4-5 weeks in primary quite often but that's more down to suddenly having something else I need to do on a weekend I'd planned to bottle.

But yeah, I still think that, assuming no stalled fermentation or any other major problem, three weeks primary is a good objective to aim for, for someone in the beginning stages of their brewing career, as impatience can get the better of you.

Some of the really experienced/practiced brewers on here can turn a well brewed beer out for bottling or kegging after 10-14 days, but they are pitching substantial yeast starters and keeping flawlessly controlled fermentation temps down to a fine art. Something that not many new brewers fully realize the importance of or have the means to achieve.

I usually check at two weeks with the 3rd for clean up & settling out. This last one needed another week. It goes that way sometimes with yeast. They have there own timetable. I'm still trying to get some accurate temp control going but just don't have the money for small fridges,controllers,etc. I just do what I can.
 
1.022 was the FG.

That's not bad at all!!!! The figures that came out of hopville/beer calculus were 1.085 OG and 1.021 FG so near enough bang on target.


I read on the coopers website that the chance of infection is a lot higher once primary fermentation is complete.

Usually after primary the beer has a high enough alcohol content to keep risks of infection to a minimum, BUT, racking to an insufficiently sanitized secondary, or one with too much head-space and the risk percentile probably increases.

I also read that cidery taste & bubbles can sometimes be due to sanitation or over priming bottles

True in some ways. Just the fact that the beer is still a bit young/immature/green can give it a cidery taste. It could be that the priming sugar hasn't been totally converted into CO2 and alcohol. It could be that acetaldehyde formed during the initial fermentation, due to lack of control and higher temps, hasn't been consumed by the yeast (as the beer didn't stay in primary long enough for the yeast to do its job). Could be a sanitizing issue but you said "but i couldnt of been more careful..." so maybe not. Not sure what you mean about the bubbles. Carbonation of the beer means there are bubbles of CO2 in your beer. If you put the beer in the fridge for a few days, or longer is even better, the bubbles of CO2 get absorbed into solution, are more compressed, produce a better, more dense, longer lasting head and continue to rise from the bottom of the glass until the glass has been drained. If the beer hasn't been chilled for a decent enough length of time the bubbles of CO2 escape faster and seem bigger. Head generally dies really fast after pouring.

one other thing i read was if temp is too high at start of fermentation?

Definitely not a good thing. Ideally you want to pitch your hydrated yeast or yeast starter into the wort, with their relative temps being within about 2 to 4 degrees centigrade of each other, as low as reasonably possible. With my ales I've been pitching somewhere around 17*C to 19*C, putting the fermenters into my brew room in swamp coolers and usually by next morning they are sitting around 14*C or thereabouts. Most of the time they take off pretty quickly and I just leave them until they get through the initial vigorous phase then, as the temp starts to drop after the extreme yeast activity, start warming them up to a max of about 24*C over the next couple of weeks.

It's generally better/easier to pitch at a cooler temp, warm up the brew and help the yeast get started than to have it too warm, producing off flavours and weird compounds then drop the temps and put the yeast to sleep.


What do you find works best as far as sanitising?

I soak everything in Oxyclean, rinse religiously and fanatically with hot tap water then soak, spray, fill with starsan solution of a dilution ratio 1 Oz : 5 (US) gallons

It tastes kinda ok when its flat!

Again, that might be because it hasn't been chilled enough for the CO2 to be properly absorbed, or it might just be that you were expecting it to turn out more like a Nitro'd Guinness that are silky smooth and creamy. Not going to happen BUT I've had some of my stouts that had been aging for six months, and more, that were pretty bloody smooth in the carbonation department, probably down to being in the fridge for weeks if not months.


Hopefully a few more weeks in the shed will fix it :) otherwise i'll definately have another crack at it, recipe has a lot of potential with possibly a few changes.

Yep, time will probably allow certain processes to complete that might well have it turning into something you'll be pretty pleased with. If my calculation is correct I reckon you've got a beer with an ABV of somewhere from 8.25% to 8.5%, and that should take a good long while to mature and for the flavours to mellow/meld. Whether or not the Cooper's yeast you used will be up to the job, of re-fermenting/carbonating it, I'm not sure.

i started a light german bock nearly 2 weeks ago, would this be better left in primary for 3 weeks aswell? I just threw in 2 x 1.7kg Thomas Coopers Heritage Lager and 2 x 500g Coopers Light Dry Malt

Yes, I emphatically implore you to let the yeast do their thing for at least three weeks on this one:fro: It's still a pretty heavy brew, with that amount of fermentibles, if you're doing it at 23 litres.

So, to summarize and hopefully get you a perfect start out of the gate on your next brew, make sure you have enough, decent yeast. Hydrate it if it's a dried yeast. Pitch when the wort and hydrated yeast are within a couple of degrees C of each other, preferably at or below 20*C. Have a means to keep the brew cool and near the bottom of the preferred temperature range of the yeast you use. GIVE IT TIME;) Both in the fermenter and after bottling. Be fanatical about cleaning and sanitizing.

Also, try to put your recipe, list of ingredients, into some sort of recipe calculator as that will give you an idea of how the malty sweetness is, or needs to be, balanced out by the addition of hops. I reckon your stout brew could have done with a bit of extra hopping to counteract the sweetness.

These are both free to use, have to download and install the one on thescrewybrewer.com but it is particularly good for calculating recipes using Cooper's kit cans, as well as other kit can stuff.

http://www.thescrewybrewer.com/2010/09/qbrew-homebrewers-recipe-calculator.html

http://beercalculus.hopville.com/recipe


By the way, the first thing that saw me getting a real positive improvement in my beer was using a swamp cooler to keep ferm temps lower and more constant.

:mug:and happy brewing.
 
I usually check at two weeks with the 3rd for clean up & settling out. This last one needed another week. It goes that way sometimes with yeast. They have there own timetable. I'm still trying to get some accurate temp control going but just don't have the money for small fridges,controllers,etc. I just do what I can.

You and me both, mate.

Still just using a swamp cooler set-up with adjustable temp, electric blanket under and wrapped around the SC. An old duvet over the top for insulation, Check them mornings before work and when I get back at night. Bottles of frozen water in the warmer months. Would love a slightly more high tech and accurate set-up eventually but the above works pretty well except for when the real humid, hot summer hits, from Mid June to end of September.
 
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