When to add fruit flavoring?

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Clay

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I am making a cherry stout, and the instructions say to add the cherry fruit flavoring into bottling bucket. Well I am going to keg it, so should I put it into the keg while I am kegging it, or should I put it into the secondary, primary, or wort? I am assuming I would put it into the keg before I keg it but I just want to be sure.

Thanks,

Clay
 
Clay said:
I am making a cherry stout, and the instructions say to add the cherry fruit flavoring into bottling bucket. Well I am going to keg it, so should I put it into the keg while I am kegging it, or should I put it into the secondary, primary, or wort? I am assuming I would put it into the keg before I keg it but I just want to be sure.

Thanks,

Clay

I've been throwing this one around to, and please show your recipe and how it turned out because this one is a top priority for me. I haven't done this but its been one of my goals and one that has kept me up at night so here is my best guess (though others who have done it maybe more helpfull)....I'm presuming since we are speeding towards winter that your using an extract (food flavoring or food aditive...aka oil) since the cherries are not in season.

I would say, that you wouldn't want to do it when you boil but do it before you pitch the yeast, watch your amount and just use your nose for the best guide.....because my thought is that boiling disapates extracts and its the same time that you would add fresh fruit from what I undestand with wine, plus that, I've been told that if you boil fruit that it makes a cloudy mess....

But that's my thoughts and research.....
 
Clay said:
I am making a cherry stout, and the instructions say to add the cherry fruit flavoring into bottling bucket. Well I am going to keg it, so should I put it into the keg while I am kegging it, or should I put it into the secondary, primary, or wort? I am assuming I would put it into the keg before I keg it but I just want to be sure.

Thanks,

Clay


I'm going to say the secondary....
 
I'd vote for adding the flavoring in the keg. That way you can fine tune the amount. If it was actual fruit, it would best go in the secondary.
 
The dark cherry stout is in the primary currently. I am debating if I should add the extract to the secondary or the keg. Any other thoughts on this are welcome. Thanks


Recipe:

Specialty Grains:
.5 Simpsons dark crystal
.5 Simpsons roasted barley
.5 Simpsons black malt

Fermentables:
3.3 Gold Malt Syrup
3 Dark Dry Malt Extract

Boil Additions:
1 oz Northern Brewer (60min)
1 oz Willamette (1min)

Special Ingredients:
Cherry Extract (add at bottling)

Yeast:
Wyeast # 1028 London Ale Yeast


BeerSlinger said:
I've been throwing this one around to, and please show your recipe and how it turned out because this one is a top priority for me. I haven't done this but its been one of my goals and one that has kept me up at night so here is my best guess (though others who have done it maybe more helpfull)....I'm presuming since we are speeding towards winter that your using an extract (food flavoring or food aditive...aka oil) since the cherries are not in season.

I would say, that you wouldn't want to do it when you boil but do it before you pitch the yeast, watch your amount and just use your nose for the best guide.....because my thought is that boiling disapates extracts and its the same time that you would add fresh fruit from what I undestand with wine, plus that, I've been told that if you boil fruit that it makes a cloudy mess....

But that's my thoughts and research.....
 
According to Papazian (I think it was him... I read it maybe a month ago), fruit without sweetness is rarely a desirable flavor because it tastes out of place or weird to humans who are unaccustomed to unsweetned fruit. So if fruit is added to the primary, it's usually done with a very malty beer where the residual malt sugars make up for what is lacking in the fruit after fermentation. I am guessing the flavoring also has sugar in it? If so, then I would assume the same principle would apply and the result will be that any sugars in the flavoring are going to be consumed by the yeast and the beer won't be as sweet.

Putting it in the secondary is a good idea on one hand because it will give the flavoring more time to settle and blend with the beer. I assume it's a natural flavoring, not some artificial junk. I assume this means that there are components in the flavoring that could fall out during your secondary and lead to a more authentic flavoring. However, as someone above said, it limits your ability to "flavor to taste".

Then, there's putting it in the keg or priming bucket. This will obviously give you the most intense cherry flavor and will allow you to add just enough to suit your tastes. My concerns would be incomplete mixing and the possibility that the cherry flavor will seem "added in" to a more experienced pallate, like an afterthought, rather than an integral part of the brew.

So my vote is this....


2/3rds of the recommended amount goes in the secondary. Then try it out while you're kegging it. If it needs a little more cherry at that time, add it to suit your taste. But my first beer isn't even going to be brewed until later in the week, so don't take my word for it. ;)
 
Thanks... this sounds like a good idea. On the bottle it says Natural Fruit Flavoring. it is 4 fl oz. I think I will add 2-3 oz into the secondary. Then when I keg it taste test it and see if I should add more.


Clay

Toot said:
According to Papazian (I think it was him... I read it maybe a month ago), fruit without sweetness is rarely a desirable flavor because it tastes out of place or weird to humans who are unaccustomed to unsweetned fruit. So if fruit is added to the primary, it's usually done with a very malty beer where the residual malt sugars make up for what is lacking in the fruit after fermentation. I am guessing the flavoring also has sugar in it? If so, then I would assume the same principle would apply and the result will be that any sugars in the flavoring are going to be consumed by the yeast and the beer won't be as sweet.

Putting it in the secondary is a good idea on one hand because it will give the flavoring more time to settle and blend with the beer. I assume it's a natural flavoring, not some artificial junk. I assume this means that there are components in the flavoring that could fall out during your secondary and lead to a more authentic flavoring. However, as someone above said, it limits your ability to "flavor to taste".

Then, there's putting it in the keg or priming bucket. This will obviously give you the most intense cherry flavor and will allow you to add just enough to suit your tastes. My concerns would be incomplete mixing and the possibility that the cherry flavor will seem "added in" to a more experienced pallate, like an afterthought, rather than an integral part of the brew.

So my vote is this....


2/3rds of the recommended amount goes in the secondary. Then try it out while you're kegging it. If it needs a little more cherry at that time, add it to suit your taste. But my first beer isn't even going to be brewed until later in the week, so don't take my word for it. ;)
 
I had asked the same question some months back and the replies indicated adding to the bottling bucket so you can judge the flavor. At that time I was using an apricot extract that was recommending 6-7 oz per 5 Gal batch. Since I was just adding to 1/2 the batch I used the 4 oz that I had and the final results were barely any flavor of apricot in the wheat beer. Cherry seems to have a more intense flavor so you want to be careful with how much you add otherwise you'll end up with a "medicinal" brew...AKA Sam Adams Cherry Wheat. One sip of that and the six pack was drained immediately and the bottles saved for bottling. LOL
 
haha I like the Sam Adams Cherry Wheat. BTW I called Northern Brewer (that is where I got the kit) and they said I could add it to eithier the secondary or the keg it didn't really matter.

docbee said:
I had asked the same question some months back and the replies indicated adding to the bottling bucket so you can judge the flavor. At that time I was using an apricot extract that was recommending 6-7 oz per 5 Gal batch. Since I was just adding to 1/2 the batch I used the 4 oz that I had and the final results were barely any flavor of apricot in the wheat beer. Cherry seems to have a more intense flavor so you want to be careful with how much you add otherwise you'll end up with a "medicinal" brew...AKA Sam Adams Cherry Wheat. One sip of that and the six pack was drained immediately and the bottles saved for bottling. LOL
 
When i did a rasberry wheat. I added my frozen rasberry's to the secondary. I was going to use a extract but my kit didn't come with it. But I would have added it the the secondary had i recieved it.
 
autoferret -- how did your raspberry wheat turn out? good raspberry flavor? I am thinking I want to try one of these this spring.
 
Clay said:
haha I like the Sam Adams Cherry Wheat. BTW I called Northern Brewer (that is where I got the kit) and they said I could add it to eithier the secondary or the keg it didn't really matter.

I know, that's partially what set me off on brewing to. Oh thanks clay for the recipe. I don't think that this is one that I want to try now.....I didn't realize it was an ale....

I'm thinking about trying to find a lager that is a little lighter......But let me know what your outcome is because I never would have guessed that you would use Roasted Barley......
 
autoferret said:
When i did a rasberry wheat. I added my frozen rasberry's to the secondary. I was going to use a extract but my kit didn't come with it. But I would have added it the the secondary had i recieved it.

That leads me to a question as well.......I come from Michigan and I thought I would wait until cherries are in season and then do a batch......But what kind of difference does it make to use cherries when there in season VS out of season?

To me it would seem that there would be more natural sugar in the fruit when they are really ripe and in season; so it would taste better.....
 
homebrewer_99 said:
If you're referring to the bottled flavoring my vote is to pour it down the sink. I don't like those flavorings...AT ALL!!!

They all taste like soapy water to me.:mad:

Hmmmm...I have a 4 ounce bottle of blackberry for my beer which is in the primary as we speak, so what do you suggest, real fruit purre?

And if so I would assume you would cook to kill possible bacteria, right?
 
homebrewer_99 said:
If you're referring to the bottled flavoring my vote is to pour it down the sink. I don't like those flavorings...AT ALL!!!

They all taste like soapy water to me.:mad:

Well, I've heard if you overuse it......it makes your mix taste like cough syrup.....but I have heard anyone say that much against them.......From everything I've read, they seem more like a top off or suppliment when you've used fresh fruit.....
 
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