Never been so discouraged about homebrew (need some encouragement)

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I should point out I'm sampling my most recent brew right now and it's really not that bad. It's a hefe with 50% pils and 50% wheat, about 15 IBU's of hallertau, and I used wyeast 3068. It lacks maltyness and mouthfeel, but there doesn't seem to be any real off flavors. It's still pretty young, only been in the keg about 3 days and not fully carbonated.
 
Stauffbier you stole what I was going to say! As guitarist we KNOW exactly what it's like to be totally frustrated with something you love so much. When I get pissed I step back for a bit then I remember...Oh yeah this is supposed to be fun.

Grapefruit flavors make me think of a possible infection, review your sanitation techniques, also it could be the lactic acid your using. As for the other off flavor you mentioned I agree with the above about extracting tannins from the mash. Is your sparge water too hot? What temp are you mashing at? How much water are you sparging with? Never sparge until you see clear liquid coming out!

Are you doing a secondary fermentation or one long primary? I'm a big believer of secondary fermentation.

I also agree with the above about brewing software. I can say after my going on 8 years in the oilfeids, not everything engineered on a computer works correctly in the real world. Keep it simple where you can.
 
Stauffbier you stole what I was going to say! As guitarist we KNOW exactly what it's like to be totally frustrated with something you love so much. When I get pissed I step back for a bit then I remember...Oh yeah this is supposed to be fun.

Grapefruit flavors make me think of a possible infection, review your sanitation techniques, also it could be the lactic acid your using. As for the other off flavor you mentioned I agree with the above about extracting tannins from the mash. Is your sparge water too hot? What temp are you mashing at? How much water are you sparging with? Never sparge until you see clear liquid coming out!

Are you doing a secondary fermentation or one long primary? I'm a big believer of secondary fermentation.

I also agree with the above about brewing software. I can say after my going on 8 years in the oilfeids, not everything engineered on a computer works correctly in the real world. Keep it simple where you can.

Thanks for the reply. I didn't actually even use lactic acid in that batch. I used RO water. As far as tannins, that was part of the reason for using acid in my sparge water, was to keep it from getting over a pH of 6. My sparge water is usually 170, by the time it leaves my cooler, it's probably a lot lower than that.
 
Maybe monitor your sparge gravity if you haven't been already. Anytime the gravity of the wort leaving your tun dips below 1.010 or so, you are extracting tannins.
 
Maybe monitor your sparge gravity if you haven't been already. Anytime the gravity of the wort leaving your tun dips below 1.010 or so, you are extracting tannins.

From what I understand, that's really true if your pH gets too high, mainly the reason I have been acidifying my sparge water. I have been checking my runnings too, and they haven't been getting that low.
 
How long are you conditioning your beers? I know you mentioned you keg but you mentioned it had only been in for three days and it has no mouthfeel. That sounds a bit green to me.

I live in TN and we have pretty hard water here, but I get along just fine without needing to add anything to control pH. Maybe you should try bottling a smash brew and letting it properly condition.

Other than that, it may be the beer lines of your keg like someone previously mentioned. I feel like you definitely know your stuff, so I really don't know what could be causing your problems. Hope all goes well. Please let us know what you find out. Cheers!
 
How long are you conditioning your beers? I know you mentioned you keg but you mentioned it had only been in for three days and it has no mouthfeel. That sounds a bit green to me.

I live in TN and we have pretty hard water here, but I get along just fine without needing to add anything to control pH. Maybe you should try bottling a smash brew and letting it properly condition.

Other than that, it may be the beer lines of your keg like someone previously mentioned. I feel like you definitely know your stuff, so I really don't know what could be causing your problems. Hope all goes well. Please let us know what you find out. Cheers!

Thanks, I have one keg I'm conditioning for a bit longer and natually carbing in the keg. I will try that in a few weeks and hopefully take it to the lake for 4th of July if it's good.
 
Thanks for the reply. I didn't actually even use lactic acid in that batch. I used RO water. As far as tannins, that was part of the reason for using acid in my sparge water, was to keep it from getting over a pH of 6. My sparge water is usually 170, by the time it leaves my cooler, it's probably a lot lower than that.

If you're using RO water are you adding salts back in or are you just using acid? That could give you some problems right there. You should treat your water if you're just using RO..
 
If you're using RO water are you adding salts back in or are you just using acid? That could give you some problems right there. You should treat your water if you're just using RO..

The couple of times I used RO water I added some salts back in, no lactic, as my residual alkalinity was very low with no alkalinity in the water. When I use my filtered tap water, I use a little lactic in the mash and sparge, sometimes adding salts depending on the beer.
 
This is good advice in my opinion! I've done this with many things in life. I used to do it a lot with guitar playing when I couldn't get a certain riff down. After a little break I would nail that riff on the first try! :mug:

Sorry

Off topic.

Hey Mike,

Not suprised you play the guitar and even though I never had the dedication to be able to, my son did. He's pretty good at it but I think he lost hiisconfindence in his ability.

Pardon me for my bd spelling

Anyway. The creativeness is there. I asked my son the other day how the playing of his guitar was going. He said down hill and I asked him why?

Because Dad, I hear myself play and am let down. I told him he should play with ear plugs.. LOL

To much work you guys put into it. Never stop playing... Please.
 
The couple of times I used RO water I added some salts back in, no lactic, as my residual alkalinity was very low with no alkalinity in the water. When I use my filtered tap water, I use a little lactic in the mash and sparge, sometimes adding salts depending on the beer.

Do you have problems with all of your beers or just certain styles? For instance, do your lighter colored beers come out better than darker ones or vice versa?

I've always felt like my darker beers have a bitter, almost acrid bite to them. Some worse than others. My light beers are always awesome, though. I've recently decided I'm going to either cold steep my dark/roasted grains in cold water and add that water to the boil, or I'm going to add the dark grains to the mash right before vourloff/sparge. I've read (and been told) that this will give a smoother taste while still maintaining roast flavors and color. Resulting in a less harsh beer....
 
urbanmyth said:
Sounds to me like you spent a little too much time and effort making a pretty brew house instead of a consistent or efficient one. Not knocking you in any way, but sometimes the ugly junk is what it takes to learn the methods and get the procedures down. I would personally scale back and try to make a simple, time tested recipe (BM's Centennial Blonde and EdWort's Haus Pale come to mind), and instead of monkeying with mash pH and water chemistry, get some simple spring water and focus on the process and making sure fermentation is nice and healthy. Calibrate your tools, leave the brews in the fridge until you pitch your yeast, and have a good time. Hit your numbers. And if you don't, figure out why and how to fix it. I hate to sound preachy, because I am far from an expert, but doing the above has helped me make some of my best beers yet.

Word up. I figure that's how anything worth a damn gets up and running. Start small. Cheap. Improvise. Develop a style & technique. But like DOug? says, making sure you have a good healthy clean ferment is all that really matters. I'm sure youre using enough good yeast, but are you repitching? You MAY be recycling bad juju over and over again. Been there & done that. It sucks. Enough to give up hope & start drinking liquor. Yuck. Well... Sometimes Yuck :{
 
Sorry

Off topic.

Hey Mike,

Not suprised you play the guitar and even though I never had the dedication to be able to, my son did. He's pretty good at it but I think he lost hiisconfindence in his ability.

Pardon me for my bd spelling

Anyway. The creativeness is there. I asked my son the other day how the playing of his guitar was going. He said down hill and I asked him why?

Because Dad, I hear myself play and am let down. I told him he should play with ear plugs.. LOL

To much work you guys put into it. Never stop playing... Please.

Thanks a lot Dan! I loved to play! I hate to admit that I gave it up many years ago due to arthritis preoblems related to my work. I can't even make it thru one song without my hands cramping up now. I still have the guitar I played as a teen. It's over 27 years old.

Here I am with it 27 years ago at the age of 15..
002.jpg


Back on topic... OP, take a little break and do some soul searching on your process, reading and research. Then I bet you'll have great results!
 
Do you have problems with all of your beers or just certain styles? For instance, do your lighter colored beers come out better than darker ones or vice versa?

I've always felt like my darker beers have a bitter, almost acrid bite to them. Some worse than others. My light beers are always awesome, though. I've recently decided I'm going to either cold steep my dark/roasted grains in cold water and add that water to the boil, or I'm going to add the dark grains to the mash right before vourloff/sparge. I've read (and been told) that this will give a smoother taste while still maintaining roast flavors and color. Resulting in a less harsh beer....

I actually haven't done any dark beers, I've been sticking to pale ales, IPAs, blondes and a kolsch.
 
I actually haven't done any dark beers, I've been sticking to pale ales, IPAs, blondes and a kolsch.

Well, that still leaves a few possibilities..

- What temp do you ferment at?
- Do you make starters?
- How do you aerate?
- Is there anywhere you could improve your sanitary practices?
- When you tweak your pH are you actually using a meter to check it?

If any of these topics have already been discussed, I apologize...
 
you making up these recipes or following tried and proven ones? If the former, try doing one in the recipe section that has raving reviews as a test batch. Do everything you are doing and see what you can pick out.

I see you didn't say anything about yeast starters or aerating. The proper amount of yeast, ferm temps, and aerating the wort with pure 02 will make the biggest difference in the world.

P.S. You bottle or keg? some people don't notice it, but if i run any beer through the clear, plastic silicone tubing it picks up a nasty plastic flavor. I know use the bev-seal ultra seal tubing with no problems.
 
I know it was kind of mentioned once, but I don't think you gave a real specific answer . . .. Time - How long are you waiting before you label your beer "not good?" For instance, for me -
Brew Day -make beer/cool/add yeast (starter used), primary ferment begins (in buckets)
Day 21 - This is the next time I touch my beer - from primary to keg or bottle. Secondary if it is "big" beer/additions, etc.
Day 42-Day 56 - I will try my first beer in the 6-8 week range usually.
8-16 weeks - this is when I find most of my beers start to come around and taste their best, depending on style.

Any chance you are just rushing these steps and passing judgement on your beer before it has had time to come around?

Couple other thoughts - forgive if I missed it earlier:
*Are you boiling/sanitizing your priming sugar?
*Replace tubing - especially cold side, bottling tubing
*What do you sanitize with? I clean with PBW or Oxyclean, Rinse, Starsan soak, don't rinse.

Keep at it, I could not agree more with the idea of a club, having someone brew with you, brew with someone else, have someone come watch your process - that is the BEST option.
 
I think the alkalinity of your water is a bit high, and I wonder if it goes up more during some seasons. That can give you a harshness to the beer. Chlorine or chloramines would cause the "plastic" flavor. If you're not treating for that, it could be where your off-flavor comes from (in the city water).

I'd try one more batch with RO water and 1 teaspoon of calcium chloride. I've never been to Garland, but I see those "water machines" all over Texas because the water isn't great.

I'd suggest a very very simple recipe and a package of dry S05 yeast. Something like a Sierra Nevada type pale ale. Like 10 pounds 2-row and 1 pound 40L, and hopped to 40 IBUs. Ferment it at 65 degrees.

And then see if you get ANY of those same flavors. Taste it for plastic, harshness, malty flavor, etc. See if it's just sort of bland, or if there really are off-flavors.

It's really hard to pin down an issue, especially when you seem to be doing everything right! But there has to be something going on, and we can help you figure it out.
 
Instead of RO water and adding salts, you might try bottled spring water and not add anything. Chicago water is very good once the chlorine evaporated, but sometimes I forget to leave my water out over night to let that happen, so I go out and buy a couple of 2.5g bottles of spring water. I have read that spring water still has minerals in it.
 
Im still fairly new to brewing (got about 30 batches and 1 year into the hobby) but I have had my fair share of good and not so good batches (only 2 that I had to dump). What I found that really help us with producing quality batches was to stay with kits longer than we wanted. On my third batch we tried to create our own recipe and while it was drinkable and decent, was not at all what we were expecting (neither me or my brew buddy like the banana clover of belgian hefs and we got a strong flavor from the yeast we didnt know any better at the time). Learning what works together and what does what helped a lot and now we are designing quality beers (not world class but definately as good as store bought stuff) on a regular basis.

The other thing I would recommend is getting your setup fine tuned. We took 3 brews in a row and recorded everything from water amounts, temps, ph and gravities in every step we could think of. Was a pain in the ass and kinda made us forget some of the additions a little late, but it allowed us to break down our efficiency and process and now we hit our numbers pretty close every time.

As said many times already, sanitation is super important. I currently have a lager that I brewed by myself since my partner is out of town and wasnt as vigilant as we normally are (he normally is the one going crazy for sanitation) and it has an off flavor. Im letting it age even longer hoping it will settle out but not sure. Point being is to be over sanitized vs under.

Dont give up, the first time you create a beer that you take a sip of and think its amazing is an awesome feeling. I made an IPA that to me is one of the best IPAs Ive ever drank (and not just because I made it, though that helps). Was a lucky recipe I kinda through together to test a hop I wasnt familiar with and now its my favorite hop and favorite brew that i keep rebrewing.
 
- Friends and family are often poor beer judges. I don't know about yours, but my family would tell me it was the best tasting beer ever, even if I gave them the gnarliest butter bomb ever created.
- Have you tried taking a bottle or two down to your local LHBS and see what they have to say? Maybe they can detect what your tasting and offer advice.
- I've read the whole thread and don't recall you saying what your fermentation temp is. Temp control during fermentation is key.
- What about making a simple extract batch? If it tastes the same, than you know it has nothing to do with mash/sparge/etc. If it tastes better, than at least you'll know where to look.

I've certainly been frustrated before. I've dumped a few batches myself. Is it possible that your beer is actually just fine, and that you're being a little overly critical of yourself that your brew doesn't measure up to a commercial micro? I've been there done that, so that's why I'm asking.

:mug:
 
Trying too hard. My best batches are ones that I did for friends on the side and honestly didn't care as much as when I did mine. Expectations weren't as high, and since I didnt really care, I didn't remind myself of every little thing that went wrong on that particular brew day when cracking each bottle open.

I've really just stopped worrying about everything as of late. I built a stand just so that I could be consistent with my water volumes and not burn my hands repeatedly when lifting my keggle HLT. The only thing that ruins a brew day is my ****ing pump. I swear if I don't goes rims in 1 year I'm selling it.
 
- Friends and family are often poor beer judges. I don't know about yours, but my family would tell me it was the best tasting beer ever, even if I gave them the gnarliest butter bomb ever created.
- Have you tried taking a bottle or two down to your local LHBS and see what they have to say? Maybe they can detect what your tasting and offer advice.
- I've read the whole thread and don't recall you saying what your fermentation temp is. Temp control during fermentation is key.
- What about making a simple extract batch? If it tastes the same, than you know it has nothing to do with mash/sparge/etc. If it tastes better, than at least you'll know where to look.

I've certainly been frustrated before. I've dumped a few batches myself. Is it possible that your beer is actually just fine, and that you're being a little overly critical of yourself that your brew doesn't measure up to a commercial micro? I've been there done that, so that's why I'm asking.

:mug:

I cool down my wort in my kegerator before pitching, I can only get it down to about 80 using my chiller. I try to pitch in the low-mid 60's. For ales, I usually keep it at 64-66 for the bulk of primary fermentation, then as fermentaion is ending, I will let it warm up to encourage the yeast to stay active, finish up, and clean up. If I'm using something like 1056, I will ferment sometimes as low as 61, or sometimes 65-66. The kolsch I just kegged stayed at about 65 for the first week, when it was just about at FG, I let it warm up to 70-72. I have been using liquid yeast lately, making a starter on a stir plate. I had previously been sticking to US-05 for almost everything.
 
Have you tried to use carbon filtered tap water?
What sanitizer du you use?
How do you store your grains and hops?

Maybe if you walk us through an entire brew with every step detailed, we'd be able to give you some hints.

I hope your brewing gets to you taste soon :D
 
Have you tried to use carbon filtered tap water?
What sanitizer du you use?
How do you store your grains and hops?

Maybe if you walk us through an entire brew with every step detailed, we'd be able to give you some hints.

I hope your brewing gets to you taste soon :D

Thanks, I filter all my water through a culligan filter and use star-san. I don't store any grains and hops. I buy them from the brew store and use them within a few days.
 
I second the idea of taking a bottle or two into your brew store. I'm just south of you in Dallas and I would recommend taking a bottle into Homebrew Headquarters. They'll be able to help you out with the off flavors. I've never done it and maybe there is some law against it or something, but I would highly recommend giving it a try.
 
I bottled a wheat beer a couple of months ago. ... It wasn't horrible, but had a somewhat plastic aftertaste.

What about chloramines? Do they use chloramines to sanitize your water? If you can't figure out whether or not they do, you could consider trying some potassium metabisulfite treatment of your water....
 
I don't worry about half the stuff you listed and my beers and wines mostly come out great. How good are your ingredients? Meaning do you know for sure where your buying them from has a high turn over rate and so on.
 
What about chloramines? Do they use chloramines to sanitize your water? If you can't figure out whether or not they do, you could consider trying some potassium metabisulfite treatment of your water....

Yes they do, but I filter my water very slowly through a culligan water filter. I have tasted the effects of chlorine/chloramine before, my first two batches were rendered undrinkable because of it. They plastic flavor isn't that strong in that beer.
 
jbsg02 said:
Yes they do, but I filter my water very slowly through a culligan water filter. I have tasted the effects of chlorine/chloramine before, my first two batches were rendered undrinkable because of it. They plastic flavor isn't that strong in that beer.

I don't think filtering is going to remove the chloramine. It took me seven batches before I started using Campden tablets, but they've made a big difference. Even with the first seven batches, the chloramine had more of an effect on some than others. While the chloramine may not be the entire problem, I don't think there's any reason not to toss a quarter to half a Campden tab in your tap water. They're extremely inexpensive.
 
I don't think filtering is going to remove the chloramine. It took me seven batches before I started using Campden tablets, but they've made a big difference. Even with the first seven batches, the chloramine had more of an effect on some than others. While the chloramine may not be the entire problem, I don't think there's any reason not to toss a quarter to half a Campden tab in your tap water. They're extremely inexpensive.

I have used potassium metabisulfite before (pretty much the same thing as campden). The carbon filter I have is pretty commonly used to remove chlorine and chloramine
 
There are many things that a filter will not remove, like dissolved minerals. Either get the filtered water tested or just buy some bottled water for the next batch. The latter is a really simple way of determining if it's the water or some problem with your process.
 
There are many things that a filter will not remove, like dissolved minerals. Either get the filtered water tested or just buy some bottled water for the next batch. The latter is a really simple way of determining if it's the water or some problem with your process.

I have tried using RO water a few times, and it doesn't seem to affect the outcome very much. The water isn't bad here, I have talked to some local professional brewers and they only use a carbon filter as well as pH 5.2 in their mash.
 
I saw you use starsan, do you use any cleaners like bbrite or onesstep? Or anything else to clean/sterilize? Do you sterilize bottles in the dishwasher? Residuals from these have caused flavors like you describe in my beers and brew pals'.
 
At the risk of sounding sarcastic.....You have dismissed (mostly politely) every idea and suggestion presented to you by the good people of this forum. It appears your process and technique are spot on and it is just Sh#$%^ DA#@ luck that prevents you from having the premium beer you crave.
 
Just my 2 cents...

Maybe it's as simple as you setting the bar too high for yourself. You mentioned not being as good as your favorite brews you get at the store. I've only been doing this half the time you have, but I've learned that the most mediocre of my beers taste about 100xs better just because I brewed it. Meaning it may taste like poo to everyone else, but it's gold to me

Keep at it though. You can only get better.
 
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