Basic American Pale Help

Hey All,
So, after getting used to my all-grain setup, I've been trying to put together an American Pale Ale recipe. I tried one a few months ago, but didn't really think too much about the ratio of Crystal malts in my grain bill. Looking back, it was around 23%, and was WAY too sweet. Even with an OG/IBU ratio around .80. So, I'm trying to wrap my head around that ratio and how to bring the malt and color into some of these recipes. I've read that maybe Munich malts are the better way go for the malt backbone I want. (Then a small amount of crystals to hit the color)

I'm just a little tentative to go for 15-20% Munich after what happened with first batch. So what kind of recipes have worked for you guys?

Here's what I'm thinking this time. Does this seem like a fairly decent grain bill? How about the IBUs, is this in the ballpark?

American Pale

72% Efficiency
OG - 1.059
FG - 1.013
SRM - 9
IBU - 44
Bitterness - .75

10 lb - 2-Row Pale 81.3%
2 lb - Munich 9L 16.2%
.3 lb - Crystal 120L 2.5%

.5 Nugget @ 60 min
1.0 Cascade @ 20 min
.5 Centennial @ 10 min
.5 Cascade @ 10 min
1.5 Cascade @ flameout
.5 Centennial @ flameout


Any help is much appreciated!

Puttin

And add rye malt into your bill. Im working on this for my next batch, not sure how much of what yet though but this is what i got so far. Also doing the same grain bill but just adding rye malt to mine.

Hops im gonna use: Centennial, Willamette, Cascade


Good luck, keep us posted..

how much additional color are you getting from going with .3 c-120 over .5 c-60. nothing wrong with using munich malt. lots of people like to use marris otter instead of 2-row as well. I'd switch the .3 c-120 to .5 c-60 and go with that grain bill though. I like your hop schedule a lot too. Your recipe definately fits into the category of Pale Ale. If you've never had a Pale Ale with Rye in it you may want to try one first. It imparts a very different flavor, almost grainy, which I've found to be a love it or hate it type of thing.

Yeah, I guess that's the big question. You get the same color from your suggestion, but since the last batch, I'm a little gunshy on the % of the crystal malts. (albeit a VERY small change from 2.5% to 5%)

You can get the same color in this recipe from:

.3 C-120
.6 C-60
1 lb C-40
or 2 lb C-20

So for those who've done a lot more recipes than this guy. What would you expect from these variations? I obviously tried the latter and it tasted a bit like fruit loops. With the added Munich above, should I expect a better balance of malt flavors?

Thanks
Toucan Sam

PS - Thanks for the rye suggestion too, I'm intrigued for sure. I'll pick some up sometime.

all you ever wanted to know about crystal malts and probably some stuff you didn't want to know: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Crystal_malt

Basically, adds slight malty sweetness, body, and head retention. anything under 10% should be fine.

Nice article, so maybe the mistake was in too much of similar Cs. The fruit loops recipe had 10% C-60, and another 8% C-80 (with some CaraPils as well). Those have to be too similar for using together.

So, how much Munich have people used without overdoing it? I've seen recipes on this site with over 50% in the bill, so I take it that Munich is much more palatable in those quantities?

I wouldn't go too far beyond 10% total quantity. so if you had 10% c-60 and 8% c-80 your up at 18%. having a big variety isn't going to change your beer much. so for the "fruit loops" recipe pick either c-60 or c-80 and cut the amount in half and you should be more on track there. Without seeing the whole recipe I can't really say for sure and it could be 1000 other things as well. Munich, from what I recall, is good up to 80% but I think you can use it up to 100%, if I recall correctly its limiting factor is it's diastatic power (I want to point out that I wouldn't take this as gossipal bc I'm working from memory here but if you go back to the wiki and search munich malt it'll give you some good info).
Again I like your grain bill like this:

10lbs 2 row or MO
2lbs Munich
.5 lbs c-60

That's 4% c-60, should be enough to give you a good color and aid in head retention without making it overly sweet or cloying (probably the fruit loops flavor your experiencing) and I wouldn't change a thing about that hop schedule.

Crystal 120L is good in many beers, but it has some raisiny/toffee flavors that I probably wouldn't like in a pale ale. I tend to use 10L, 20L, 40L or 60L in my IPAs and APAs. A good mix helps too, for interest- like .5 pound 10L and .5 pound 60L. I like about 7-10% crystal malt in many of my APAs.

First of all, munich is a base malt and will not lead to a cloying sweetness or increased unfermentables in the wort. %23 crystal is a bit much, but WLP001 and similar strains have been known to chew threw pretty much anything. A look at Rogue's recipes shows they are amazingly heavy handed in crystal malts for the most part and attenuation and sweetness is typically no issue in their beer.


This all being said, after much deliberation here is the grain bill that produces my best pale ale:

6 gallon batch at %80 eff

9 pounds two row
1 pound munich
1/2 pound C40
1/2 pound C60
1/2 pound victory
3 oz C120 or special B
WLP001
Mash at 154
OG = 1.050
Expected FG = 1.010

Hop it however you like.....my last one had 8 oz of cascade at 3 minutes and a 1/4 of columbus at 60 minutes. Its awesome.

permo said:

First of all, munich is a base malt and will not lead to a cloying sweetness or increased unfermentables in the wort. %23 crystal is a bit much, but WLP001 and similar strains have been known to chew threw pretty much anything. A look at Rogue's recipes shows they are amazingly heavy handed in crystal malts for the most part and attenuation and sweetness is typically no issue in their beer.


This all being said, after much deliberation here is the grain bill that produces my best pale ale:

6 gallon batch at %80 eff

9 pounds two row
1 pound munich
1/2 pound C40
1/2 pound C60
1/2 pound victory
3 oz C120 or special B
WLP001
Mash at 154
OG = 1.050
Expected FG = 1.010

Hop it however you like.....my last one had 8 oz of cascade at 3 minutes and a 1/4 of columbus at 60 minutes. Its awesome.

Click to expand...

I hope that I in no way insinuated that you would get a cloying sweetness from munich. . . you would from crystal. assuming wlp-001 eats thru the sugars, sounds like a tasty brew.

rjschroed said:

I hope that I in no way insinuated that you would get a cloying sweetness from munich. . . you would from crystal. assuming wlp-001 eats thru the sugars, sounds like a tasty brew.

Click to expand...

Nope, your advice was spot on. It just sounded to me like the OP thought that maybe munich was part of the issue and it isnt.

The recipe I posted is very nice, I have personally found that C120 or even special B when used in this minute amount will give a very soft roastiness to a beer that is that little extra something that you just can't put your finger on.

Thanks again for the help, all. I ended up using:

@72% Eff.

OG - 1.057
FG - 1.006
SRM - 8.1
IBU - 41.9


8.5 lb pale
3.0 lb Munich
.25 Crystal 60
.25 Biscuit

Mashed @ 152 for and hour (I was shooting for 154)

.5 oz Chinook @ 60
.5 oz Cascade @ 20
1.0 oz Cascade @10
.5 oz Centennial @ 10
1.0 oz Cascade @ flameout
1.0 oz Centennial @ flameout

WLP001 - Pretty large starter
Fermented at 65-68 degrees

Not sure how it got to 1.006, especially because the fermenter was kept below the optimum temp on the WLP001 info. Any thoughts there?

Regardless, it is tasty. I'd say it's a very hop-forward APA, but the balance is still good. No sweetness like I had before. Thanks again for the help, guys!

Puttin