Scalded Dog IPA

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Dynachrome

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I wanted to try something like a "Two Hearted Ale" clone.

I used ingredients I had on hand and borrowed from a recipe in a different thread (You wouldn't recognize it).

I wanted to mash at 165 deg. F, but had a difficult time keeping it in the mid 150's. I wanted to go at a higher temp to give it a little red character.

It will be beer.

Scalded Dog IPA

21.2 lbs 2 row malted
3.4 lb Cara Pils #1
3.4 lbs Caramel 15L Malt
2.0 oz Chinook @60 minutes
2.0 oz Cascade whole leaf dry @30 minutes
1.5 oz Cascade whole leaf dry @3 minutes

15 gallons water - yielded approximately 12.5 gallons wort.

Wort was left to cool on the back deck.


I'll post original gravity when I get a chance after it cools.

I tried my new Corona Mill. Ground it a tad too fine. I lost a bit of liquid to stuck sparge from what I can tell. I'll grind courser next time.
 
I'm curious why the high mash temp. I know you stated you wanted a deeper red color, but that could be easily achieved by adding a pound of higher L crystal and a 90 min boil. Typically mash outs are done at 165-168 because all enzyme conversation stops at those temps. What was your sparge temp?

Everything looks good except the high mash temp. I fear you may have extracted some unwanted proteins and tannins, and may end up with phenolic off flavors.

I would keep the recipe as is, but add 1 pound crystal at 70L, and drop your mash
temp down to 149-151. If it's not as deep a color as you desire then simply up the lovibond degrees in your crystal malt.

I might also suggest a wort chiller so you don't have to chill your wort on the back deck.

[email protected]
 
Anything over about 160 will denature the enzymes required for conversion, so I wouldn't mash over 160.

I think you have WAY too much crystal malt already. 7 pounds of crystal malt in a 28 pound grain bill is about 4 pounds too much! It'll be nothing like Two-Hearted in my opinion.
 
Isn't 72C (~162F) the very highest you'll ever want to go, in order to have Alpha-amylase convert some of the most stubborn starch?
 
You will get some starch conversion at 162, but along with that you will start extracting a lot of tannins and proteins which can contribute to chill haze. According to jamiel zanchef and John Palmer, it is better to do a longer scarification rest at a lower temp with a 60-70 minute sparge than a high temp mash. This will also contribute to mouthfeel; a higher mashed wort will be thiner whereas a slower lower temp mash should yield better efficiency and a fuller mouthfeel. At 168 all enzyme conversation stops, and you are then just rinsing the extracted sugars from the malt. John palmer's book "how to brew" explains this well.
 
Ah. I've had different resources suggest different things. For example, the Swedish brewing wiki (which is mostly written by a few people, to be fair) suggests 30 minutes at 62C and 30 minutes at 72C.

In the end I guess it depends on beer style.
 
This will also contribute to mouthfeel; a higher mashed wort will be thiner whereas a slower lower temp mash should yield better efficiency and a fuller mouthfeel. At 168 all enzyme conversation stops, and you are then just rinsing the extracted sugars from the malt. John palmer's book "how to brew" explains this well.

That's actually reversed- a lower temp mash should result in a thinner drier beer, while a higher temp mash will have a fuller mouthfeel and a higher FG.

That's because lower temperature mashes (131-150) favor beta amylase. A higher mash temp (154-164) favors alpha amylase, which will produce a "thicker" bodied beer.

You can mash up to 162 or so without worrying about tannin extraction, but you're getting close to the temperature when all of the enzymes will be denatured, so you really have to watch it! I'd suggest never going over 160 for a mash temp.
 
Thanks yooper, I did have the temps and effects reversed. It's still early here, and I have not yet kick started my brain. As far as tannin extraction, the topic is discussed quite a bit on the BN, and getting up in the 160s to 170s is always deemed dangerous during your rests. When I first started competing in AHA and BJCP events a lot of the feedback I got on score sheets reflected too high mash temps resulting in phenols and tannin extractions. I was doughing in at 162 and sparging at 170. Since I've begun doing 70-90 minute scarification rests at 149-152 depending on style, I've received a lot more positive feedback. I also noticed that in jamil's book "brewing classic styles" most recipes call for mash temps of 148-152 with a 90 min rest and 90 min boil.

[email protected]. on tap: homemade sarsaparilla and easy virtue blonde. primary: heffewitzen, blow your top steam. conditioning: fruity monk Belgian wit
 
Thanks yooper, I did have the temps and effects reversed. It's still early here, and I have not yet kick started my brain. As far as tannin extraction, the topic is discussed quite a bit on the BN, and getting up in the 160s to 170s is always deemed dangerous during your rests. When I first started competing in AHA and BJCP events a lot of the feedback I got on score sheets reflected too high mash temps resulting in phenols and tannin extractions. I was doughing in at 162 and sparging at 170. Since I've begun doing 70-90 minute scarification rests at 149-152 depending on style, I've received a lot more positive feedback. I also noticed that in jamil's book "brewing classic styles" most recipes call for mash temps of 148-152 with a 90 min rest and 90 min boil.

[email protected]. on tap: homemade sarsaparilla and easy virtue blonde. primary: heffewitzen, blow your top steam. conditioning: fruity monk Belgian wit

But even Jamil recommends doing his Lagunitas clone (from Can You Brew It?) at 160!

I agree that a too-high temperature can cause some tannin extraction, but I stand by my statement that up to 162 is safe. I still wouldn't do it- as I rarely mash above 156, and instead mash almost all of my IPAs and IPAs at 153- but I don't believe that tannin extraction from mashing at 160 is an issue as long as the pH is in the proper range.
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone . The mash never made it much over 155 really. I store my grains in the freezer. Grinding it didn't warm it up much.

I did one red earlier at a higher temp I was very happy with the results. I guess I didn't get that one that hot either, 160F. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/angry-dwarf-ale-little-red-recipe-progress-177479/ I was kind of inspired by this: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/bee-cave-brewery-haus-pale-ale-31793/

Yeah, Two-Hearted is lighter than what I have going. My wife did comment that the wort was much darker than she had expected.

A friend had toasted some grains and mashed hot on a batch (165?). He didn't care to drink it. My wife and I both enjoyed it. He gave us two twelve packs.

I'm enjoying trying a lot of different things - keeps it from getting hum-drum and someday maybe if I really feel a need to nail a clone recipe I'll be armed with a decent arsenal of experience.
 
Ive been tryig to run this through brewtarget, but there seem to be inconsistencies.

I can't get my personalized equipment input to the DB.
 
Anything over about 160 will denature the enzymes required for conversion, so I wouldn't mash over 160.

I think you have WAY too much crystal malt already. 7 pounds of crystal malt in a 28 pound grain bill is about 4 pounds too much! It'll be nothing like Two-Hearted in my opinion.

From the other thread:
10# Pale
2 Vienna
.5 carapils
.5 crystal 20
1 oz of centennial at 60
1 at 15
1 at 5
1 at flame out
dry hop? probably at least 1 oz
ALL CENTENNIAL!!!

So the Carapils doesn't substitute for the Vienna? I doubled it for a larger batch. Guess I was even heavy at that.

I knew I was a tad heavy on specialty, It tastes pretty decent, but I'll have to wait till it bottle conditions. In the mean time I'll also try to source some Two-hearted to compare i to for the heck of it. Another excuse to sample beer.

I didn't really think it would be that close to Two-hearted.
 
I couldn't wait, as usual.

It's pretty full bodied. Early taste reminds me of Fat Tire without the funky overtones.

It does have an interesting effervescence that lingers for a while on the tongue.

I have to be out of town for a few days so it will get a chance to condition better before I crack another.
 
I'm stranded in the great frozen north about four hours from home.

I went and picked up two bottles of Two Hearted. It is way hoppier than what I brewed. It is also lighter mouth feel. Go figure. I thought I doubled up on hops to match the double recipe, plus additional for the dry leaf hops. I'll have to check my math.
 
I've tried about two more bottles of this stuff.

It is nice and clear. It has nice head.

It's on the edge of cloying (I think). Not enough hops for the body?

...nobody predicted that?

It is drinkable though.
 
9/25/2011 to 10/20/2011 conditioning.

...almost 4 weeks. This stuff is maturing nicely.

I have to say I am enjoying it more at 60 degrees than at 40 degrees.
 
I tried my new Corona Mill. Ground it a tad too fine. I lost a bit of liquid to stuck sparge from what I can tell. I'll grind courser next time.

Next time you use your corona mill, instead of changing the setting, line your mash tun with a fine mesh nylon cloth known as Swiss Voile, aka sheer curtains. You may have to do a little sewing to make this into a bag that fits your tun. If you have a stuck sparge, just lift the bag containing the grains and let it drain. You'll have the best of both worlds, a conventional mash tun with the option of "brew in a bag" if you need to relieve a stuck sparge. You can squeeze this bag to force out most of the wort both before you sparge and again after to capture nearly all the fermentable sugars.
 
Dynachrome said:
RM-MN

What method do you use to clean and store these bags please?

Mrhenry41h

This was a minimalist post, but that is how low it got. I was a bit surprised. I thought it would be higher too.

Wow. How's she tasting? If it got down to 1.013, it could be pretty tasty.

[email protected]
 
I'm enjoying it. I wish I had locals that brewed to share it with. I do get a bottle to some regular beer drinking friends.

I haven't tried this one out on civilians yet though.

;-)
 
I did the side-by-side picture thing tonight.

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I'm curious why the high mash temp. I know you stated you wanted a deeper red color, but that could be easily achieved by adding a pound of higher L crystal and a 90 min boil. Typically mash outs are done at 165-168 because all enzyme conversation stops at those temps. What was your sparge temp?

I did not get as hot as I hoped. Later in the thread I say I got mid 150's

I might also suggest a wort chiller so you don't have to chill your wort on the back deck.

I got a carboy for Christmas last year, who knows what I might get this year...

:)


This was the thread I interpretted:

Bells-two-hearted-ale-clone-close-they-come
 
Here is the blow-by-blow.

Scalded Dog IPA - Escahts says to shoot for 52 IBUs.

25.5 lbs 2 row malted
3.5 lb Cara Pils #1
1 lbs Bonlander Munich Malt (Briess Malt #5344)
1 lbs Special Roast Malt (Breiss Malt #5398)
____________________
31 lbs total grain bill

18 gallons water - yielded approximately 15-1/2 gallons of wort post-boil.

--------------------------------

Warmed up the mashtun before mashing in.

4 gallons @ 166F
4 gallons @ 182F
...leveled off at 156F and then crept up to 158F - 60 minute mash
The temperature held well this method.

4 gallons @167F 10 minutes
drain

4 gallons @167F 10 minutes
drain

2 gallons @160F to complete drain

47.5ABU calculated "Way Hoppy".

2.0 oz 13.90 AA Chinook pellet @60 minutes
2.0 oz 3.20 AA Cascade pellet @60 minutes
1.0 oz 3.20 AA Cascade pellet @15 minutes
1.0 oz 6.90 AA Cascade pellet @15 minutes
2.0 oz 7.00 AA Cascade whole leaf dry @3 minutes
1.0 oz 4.00 AA Cascade whole leaf dry @3 minutes

Wort was left to cool on the back deck.

Made (3) s-04 dry yeast rehydrations to pitch in the morning.

I am also going to ferment about 2-1/2 gallons of this with Fleishman's bakers yeast as a test.
 
I fermented two of these in pots. They were at 1.010. I bottled them both.

There is another portion of it in a carboy.

I'm going to let that one finish a little more before I bottle it.
 
I fermented two of these in pots. They were at 1.010. I bottled them both.

There is another portion of it in a carboy.

I'm going to let that one finish a little more before I bottle it.

Weeks have passed. I did not do a secondary. We are bottling the carboy contents today.

My friend at the LHBS said I should be careful of autolysis. He said it can occur from setting the beer on the yeast cake in primary too long.

The beer tastes good. I wish I had a keg to put it in. I'd just start drinking it.

It has only gone down to FG of 1.013, not down as far as what was in the pots.
 
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