Bummer and a big decision...

ablrbrau said:

Not to hijack dude's thread, but I may also be facing some surgery for one of my dogs soon. They always sit under the kichen table while we eat our supper. My son managed to drop not one, but two chicken legs onto the floor, and our lab/greyhound mix swallowed them whole before I could reach in her mouth and grab them. Now we have to follow her around for the next couple days to see if she passes them. If she doesn't, she'll be going under the knife for a bowel obstruction. Yippee.

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That's too bad. Troy's managed to steal a bone or two off the table, but hasn't had any problems. Incidentally, I do feel that people who either eat chicken in their cars and throw the bones out onto the sidewalk, or who eat chicken on the sidewalk and drop their bonds where they stand, ought to have their legs broken.

Is there anything less pleasant in this world than taking a walk with the pooch, sun's coming up, nice and warm, no one's up yet, peaceful and quiet - then having him lunge at something unknown on the ground, then having to reach into his mouth to retrieve it?

ablrbrau said:

I agree. And I am a hunter, and I used to be a butcher. Weird, huh?

Not to hijack dude's thread, but I may also be facing some surgery for one of my dogs soon. They always sit under the kichen table while we eat our supper. My son managed to drop not one, but two chicken legs onto the floor, and our lab/greyhound mix swallowed them whole before I could reach in her mouth and grab them. Now we have to follow her around for the next couple days to see if she passes them. If she doesn't, she'll be going under the knife for a bowel obstruction. Yippee.

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I'm not sure that eating them whole is an issue. Cooked chicken bones are brittle and can produce sharp shards when chewed... hopefully with them going down whole she'll be fine. We're going through the same thing right now. I went out to mow the yard a couple weeks ago and, after an hour, returned to find half eaten chicken bones all over the house. Our dog jumped into the trash when I went outside and got into the chicken... he's ok so far but we're keeping our fingers crossed.

Well I called the vet today to get some professional input. He said that 90% of the time they will pass on their own and that I should keep an eye on her for about four days and monitor her eating habits etc. He also said that it is now the better part of 24 hrs later and she is still full of piss and vinegar so that is a very good sign. so I will RDWHAH for now. Thanks all, and Dude thanks for not minding my hijacking your thread.

No change on Dixie. She isn't getting worse, isn't getting better either. I took her into the kennel to stay this weekend, as I'll be out of town for a few days, but I think judgement day will be when I get back or shortly thereafter.
I'm just concerned with the quality of life issue for this dog. Even if she does heal, if this happens again I know what I'm going to do immediately.

Plus, the vet is pissing me off. She made me feel guilty on the phone the other day for not electing to do the surgery. I asked her if she wanted to save the dog so bad, she should offer to do the surgery for free. She didn't even reply. Unreal.

Dude said:

Plus, the vet is pissing me off. She made me feel guilty on the phone the other day for not electing to do the surgery. I asked her if she wanted to save the dog so bad, she should offer to do the surgery for free. She didn't even reply. Unreal.

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My previous post probably made me sound like a non-animal lover which is probably the farthest from the truth. My issue is exactly what you're getting here Dude; Vet's going off on spending $3k+ and acting like you're supposed to be surprised when you think otherwise on their recommendations. A good vet puts things into perspective on age, prognosis, quality of life afterwards etc from expensive procedures. My cousin is a vet and she's told me of a lot of "play on emotion" **** going on out there in her industry. Like human doctors, find qualiy vets who speak realistically about our loved ones.

Dude said:

No change on Dixie. She isn't getting worse, isn't getting better either. I'm just concerned with the quality of life issue for this dog. Even if she does heal, if this happens again I know what I'm going to do immediately.

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We're all getting older Dude - even Dixie too! I'd suggest just paying the cost this time. Especially if it's her first big Vet bill. Working Animals/Pets ARE expensive (Try paying towards a horse like i do!!!). She still sounds healthy and given the cage rest she'll be fine!

ablrbrau said:

Well I called the vet today to get some professional input. He said that 90% of the time they will pass on their own and that I should keep an eye on her for about four days and monitor her eating habits etc. He also said that it is now the better part of 24 hrs later and she is still full of piss and vinegar so that is a very good sign. so I will RDWHAH for now. Thanks all, and Dude thanks for not minding my hijacking your thread.

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Wild dogs eat birds with no problem If your dog isn't choking, she'll pass it in due time. My little shih-tzu can gobble down a t-bone and poop it out without problems, so your monsters shouldn't be worried about a little chicken bone.

Dude said:

No change on Dixie. She isn't getting worse, isn't getting better either. I took her into the kennel to stay this weekend, as I'll be out of town for a few days, but I think judgement day will be when I get back or shortly thereafter.
I'm just concerned with the quality of life issue for this dog. Even if she does heal, if this happens again I know what I'm going to do immediately

Plus, the vet is pissing me off. She made me feel guilty on the phone the other day for not electing to do the surgery. I asked her if she wanted to save the dog so bad, she should offer to do the surgery for free. She didn't even reply. Unreal.

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I must be lucky in the vet department. He isn't afraid to to say when an animal has had enough, or when he thinks it is worth it to continue with rehabilitation. I pretty much trust his judgement, but then again he has never had to push any drastic care on me, either. I hope it turns out for you and Dixie, Dude.

Cheesefood said:

Wild dogs eat birds with no problem If your dog isn't choking, she'll pass it in due time. My little shih-tzu can gobble down a t-bone and poop it out without problems, so your monsters shouldn't be worried about a little chicken bone.

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It's not that, it's the brittleness of the chicken bones after they are cooked. Steak bones aren't a problem, pig bones aren't a problem (I occassionally buy Troy these huge, smoked mosters, prolly weight six or seven pounts). You dog eats a chicken, he probably doesn't stop to cook it first. Cook it, the bones splinter up easily and can piece the digestive tract.

desertBrew said:

My cousin is a vet and she's told me of a lot of "play on emotion" **** going on out there in her industry. Like human doctors, find qualiy vets who speak realistically about our loved ones.

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Play on emotions? I have first-hand experience with this. The first week we got Chance (right when we started bonding with him) he got really sick. We took him to a vet that diagnosed him positive for parvo, and told us it would be at least $400 to take care of him. Of course he diagnosed positive for parvo - he just got his vaccination! I told him that but was dismissed - "our tests don't lie" The vet explained how bad parvo was and that he has only a slim chance, but we had to act immediately. We felt trapped.

I immediately called our breeder and she told us to meet at her clinic. It turned out he was just in a hypoglaucemic shock. I'm not sure if that's the right term, but it's blood sugar shortage problems - very common in small breeds. They have a hard time regulating their blood sugar levels, and he hit pretty hard. He spent the night in the kennel with an IV of glucose/sucrose. I was told to make sure he got some honey everyday to prevent the problem from happening again until he grew up. My breeder covered the overnight visit.

Be careful, Dude. It might be worth looking for another vet.

The Happy Mug said:

Be careful, Dude. It might be worth looking for another vet.

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I agree, there's no need for that at all. You have to be able to trust your vet. If the vet is trying to goad you into doing a very expensive procedure, how confident do you feel that the procedure is 100% necessary? I'm not saying that it isn't, but the play on your guilt - if movitate by the vet's wallet - may tell you something about how objective their advice truly is.

There's enough really good, understanding vets out there where I would bring him in for a second opinion. Ease your mind.

We've been lucky with our vets, they've all been people we trust. The one in our last town sent us a sympathy card after our cat passed away, with a very sincere (or at least sincere-sounding) note. I thought it was a very classy thing for them to do, not sure if that's SOP.

desertBrew said:

I swear sometimes vets PISS ME OFF. They charge outrageous amounts for their services; and sometimes the equivalent human procedure costs the same or less after Ins companies do their usual & customary. My wife years ago slammed the front door shut while our cat was between the screen & inner door. Cat tried to get out and was just a bit slow. She nipped 4-5" of the tail. Bla, bla, cry, cry she takes the cat to the vet. Calls me and it's $450 to cut it clean and sew it up. I started in on the phone to bring her home and I'd do it myself with a knife, thread and styptic pencil :cross:. She hung up on me and had it done. I don't think my friggen vasectomy was much more than that.

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Well i can see you have absolutly no idea of what you are talking about. Tell me what medical procedure you can get on youself that is cheeper than the same procedure on an animal! Insurance doesn't factor in to it. What about people who don't have medical insurance, have you even looked at you bill from any of your doctors to see what amount the insurance company paid. You will be shocked at how much human doctors charge.

Vet. medicine does not charge outragous amounts of money. How much do you think it cost the doctor to go through school? Do you have any idea what surgical equipment costs? Veternarians have to pay the near the same ridicously high prices on medications and medical supplies that human practicioners do.

You got a vasectomy for $450? There is no way it was $450. Unless of course you went south of the border and had some nut job, no pun intended, do the work with kitchen gloves and a steak knife.

desertBrew said:

No but she may have slid the Dr some $ to make sure I got an infection from the procedure .

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You are proving my point for me.

Now my rant is over. No offense to any one. Oh by the way can you guess what i do for a living?

Cheesefood said:

Wild dogs eat birds with no problem If your dog isn't choking, she'll pass it in due time. My little shih-tzu can gobble down a t-bone and poop it out without problems, so your monsters shouldn't be worried about a little chicken bone.

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Stop feeding your dog cow bones! It will catch up to you. Are you familliar with eating a dorito and you dont chew it right and it scrapes you all the way down? Now imagine the sharp t bone fragments travilling through you dogs bowels and emerging from her butt. Any questions.

The Happy Mug said:

Play on emotions? I have first-hand experience with this. The first week we got Chance (right when we started bonding with him) he got really sick. We took him to a vet that diagnosed him positive for parvo, and told us it would be at least $400 to take care of him. Of course he diagnosed positive for parvo - he just got his vaccination! I told him that but was dismissed - "our tests don't lie" The vet explained how bad parvo was and that he has only a slim chance, but we had to act immediately. We felt trapped.

I immediately called our breeder and she told us to meet at her clinic. It turned out he was just in a hypoglaucemic shock. I'm not sure if that's the right term, but it's blood sugar shortage problems - very common in small breeds. They have a hard time regulating their blood sugar levels, and he hit pretty hard. He spent the night in the kennel with an IV of glucose/sucrose. I was told to make sure he got some honey everyday to prevent the problem from happening again until he grew up. My breeder covered the overnight visit.

Be careful, Dude. It might be worth looking for another vet.

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If your dog tested positive for parvo then it had parvo. It takes a while for any vaccine to affect the immune system and create an immunity. In my experiance breeders are the money grubbing morons. They all think they know what they are doing and it turns out they have no clue and they end up harming the animal. I think you got lucky and the dog had a mild infection. And by the way 400 dollars is cheap to treat Parvo.

AHammer16 said:

Stop feeding your dog cow bones! It will catch up to you. Are you familliar with eating a dorito and you dont chew it right and it scrapes you all the way down? Now imagine the sharp t bone fragments travilling through you dogs bowels and emerging from her butt. Any questions.

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I disagree-sort of. I was a meat cutter for quite a few years and we used to sell beef femur bones for dogs. In fact I used to give them to my dogs quite a bit. The trick is that first it's a femur bone-the hardest bone in the body- and second it is not cooked. A dog can gnaw on it for weeks and never break it up. A cooked bone is a different story, though. They are brittle and can easily be broken up. I was worried about the chicken bones that my dog ate not because it would break, but because she swallowed them whole and I was afraid they would get stuck somewhere (they didn't; she's fine ).

AHammer16 said:

You got a vasectomy for $450? There is no way it was $450. Unless of course you went south of the border and had some nut job, no pun intended, do the work with kitchen gloves and a steak knife. You are proving my point for me.

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It's possible. I paid $600 for mine six years ago, and I know that was full price because insurance doesn't cover it. So if he had it done ten or fifteen years ago I would believe that number.

heh...arguing and getting upset on the internet. WOW, I thought this was a relaxed forum. I grew up on a farm, and had more dogs and cats than I can count. After my last pet died in 96, I switched to fish. I know some of you may think a pet is only a dog, cat, hampster, etc....but fish ROCK!! Best pets EVER. They look great, don't destroy/piss/crap on my stuff, make NO noise, don't wake me up, never have to be walked, and if I forget to feed them on morning, they're cool about it when I get home. And I'll never have to worry about visits to the vet, or charges to have them put down.

Sure, I've had a handful croak on me...and I flushed them without thinking twice. And I wasn't depressed about it. Except for that lionfish I lost...I was pissed because he cost a lot of money compared to the other fish I have. Twice a month I clean filters, and do a monthly water chance. My fish love me. If anyone's looking for an easy maintenance pet...look into fish. Oh, and when someone tells you saltwater fish are incredibly hard to take care of, slap them and buy those fish. I started on Saltwater, and have lost fewer fish with it than my freshwater tanks.

Just my $.02

I once had fish. 55g tank and 5 little piranha. Feed them goldfish. If you forget to feed them that day, they eat the slowest of their kind. Eventually I had one piranha that was the size of a large bluegill. I sold the last one to the pet store but he got the last laugh as he bit through the bag on the way into the store and bit my damn finger. Evil little bugger he was.

We have fish, but they don't really count as pets, IMHO.

The one bad experience we had with fish was when one of them died the day we were having a big get-together with the family. My nephew, probably four or so at the time, was looking at the fish and was the one to notice that one was floating on the top of the tank. We, of course, had to flush 'im (no tears shed, of course), but the conversation he had with my brother was so sad...

"Where's the fish going, Dad?"
"To fish heaven, son."

i used to keep 40 tanks of fish, now i have tapered off to 5.
this year my favorite died, he was 23 years old and about 2 feet long.
he lived at my friends pet store the last 9 years as i couldn't keep my tanks as i had to look after my mother in a shared duplex the last few years of her life.
while i was sad when the fish died, you don't get the same attachement to fish as a dog or a cat. i cried when my daschund had to be put down.

40 tanks???? How did you find the time to keep them up? 2 tanks is plenty for me!

6-8 hours every sunday for 12 years to clean tanks.
brewing beer is so much easier!

rod said:

i used to keep 40 tanks of fish, now i have tapered off to 5.
this year my favorite died, he was 23 years old and about 2 feet long.
he lived at my friends pet store the last 9 years as i couldn't keep my tanks as i had to look after my mother in a shared duplex the last few years of her life.
while i was sad when the fish died, you don't get the same attachement to fish as a dog or a cat. i cried when my daschund had to be put down.

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I used to work with a guy that had an ungodly amt of fish tanks. He made a ton of money breeding angel fish. He'd breed them raise them and sell them to pet stores. Apparently they're difficult to breed- only what I've heard, I wouldn't know firsthand.

i found angels easy - i had trouble with discus
baby discus eat a slime off the parents body - but it irritates the parents - and my parents ate the babies instead!

rod said:

i found angels easy - i had trouble with discus
baby discus eat a slime off the parents body - but it irritates the parents - and my parents ate the babies instead!

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I can think of a few people that should follow that example!!!

Dang, AHammer. We didn't mean to tick you off!

For what it's worth, the first vet started with "at least" $400. I am very certain my bill would have been much more. Get them in the door with the thought that we could afford it, then crank up the price. The vet I went to, my breeder's vet, told me that the positive parvo test was to be expected because he had recently had his vaccination.

I have visited the first vet since, when my dog was bleeding from what appeared very much to be his ear. It was a cut just below his ear from an unknown cause. This vet charged me $120 to shave the area, clean the wound and give him a week worth of antibiotics.

My parents have a diabetic cocker spaniel. Their vet gave them a perscription for human insulin because it costs less than dog insulin. She does just fine on it.

As for vasectomies, I used to have a plan that covered 100% the cost. I didn't get one, but a lot of guys I worked with did.

rod said:

i found angels easy - i had trouble with discus
baby discus eat a slime off the parents body - but it irritates the parents - and my parents ate the babies instead!

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Discus are reknowned for being tricky - just keeping them alive can be tricky/expensive if the water in your area is unsuitable.
Cichlids were definately my favorites. I used to keep Angels, Jack Dempseys, Nicaraguan Cichlids and (the amazing entertaining yet bombproof) Convict Cichlids in the past - But not in the same tank of course!!!!