Looking to add a little complexity to my Special Bitter

This is my current recipe, it's good but not great. I already plan on crashing it earlier to preserve some of the esters I lost over the 2 weeks of it sitting (hydrosample was AWESOME at 6 days, much better ester profile) but I want to add something else to the mix. What do you all feel would be a good addition to this recipe? Some amber or maybe a small boost in bitterness and flavor hops? The nose is a little on the light side but I don't want to dry hop this beer next shot through.


6 lbs 8.0 oz Maris Otter (Crisp) (3.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Crystal Light - 45L (Crisp) (45.0 SRM)
6.1 oz Oats, Flaked (Briess) (1.4 SRM)
4.0 oz Crystal Extra Dark - 120L (Crisp) (120.0 SRM)
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.80 %] (60 min) Hops 20.5 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.80 %] (15 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.80 %] (0 min) Hops -
8.0 oz Turbinado (10.0 SRM) Sugar 6.15 %
1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002)

31IBU OG 1.048 FG 1.012 = 4.69% ABV

I wouldn't add anything, in fact I'd probably subtract something. You already have two crystals and two adjuncts in mix which IMO is one too many of each. Don't over complicate a bitter recipe. Good base pale ale malt, a little crystal and 5-10% of one adjunct if you like. I would also suggest moving more of the hops to the first addition putting the majority of your IBUs there.

I don't know that I would like to add anything extra to that recipe. I personally would get rid of the oats, but I wouldn't mind replacing them with about 8 0z flaked barley or torrified wheat. I'd also get rid of the sugar, and increase the M.O. to compensate if necessary. The only other change that I would make is to reduce the two late hop additions by 0.25 oz each, and add the extra 0.5 oz hops at 60 minutes.
Apart from the oats (which I think are out of place), that looks like a very solid recipe IMO.

-a.

BigEd said:

I wouldn't add anything, in fact I'd probably subtract something. You already have two crystals and two adjuncts in mix which IMO is one too many of each. Don't over complicate a bitter recipe. Good base pale ale malt, a little crystal and 5-10% of one adjunct if you like. I would also suggest moving more of the hops to the first addition putting the majority of your IBUs there.

Click to expand...

Great minds think alike
-a.

Two suggestions to lose the oats works for me. I am definately keeping both crystals though, their tastes easily come through and the turbinado is just to keep it dryer. A bit more.bitter kick would help too. Maybe I'll do a rebrew and this new recipe side by side.

I have no problems with using light and dark crystal in the right proportions, and without adding excessive amounts. Your crystal volumes look fine to me.
I also don't have a problem with adding a little sugar to dry things out a bit if it is necessary, but if I were to brew that recipe (without the oats or sugar), I would get a FG of about 1.08 which is plenty dry enough. I must admit that I mash at 150F for 90 minutes. (According to Ray Daniels - designing Great Beers - the mash temperature is typical for Bitters).

-a.

I will try without the sugar then and drop the oats with more bittering.

I agree. Id drop the sugar and oats and make up the gravity with more marris otter. It sounds like a good recipe.

Daniels also tells us Bitter is brewed with sugar adjuncts. Can't invoke only a part of the Bitter chapter of Designing Great Beers! My Bitter (see Pride of Raubsville in my recipe dropdown) uses 10% sugar and a low mash temperature.

A good Bitter will use Crystal malt to regain some of the backbone lost by substituting sugar for malt. Remember, sugar gained wide acceptance in Britain back when the Free Mash Tun Act was enacted.

That's why I subscribe to the 80/10/10% breakdown of the grist - 80% pale malt, 10% Crystal and 10% sugar. It's appropriate to what goes into commercial Bitter, and it just plain works.

Cheers,

Bob

I need to consult with a higher authority on this one.



Looks like I'm going to do a double brew day.

+1 to simplify... Id probably remove the oats first and as people have said get rid of one of the crystals..

Yeah... I love bitters and be super curious about an experiment involving both...

ajf said:

I have no problems with using light and dark crystal in the right proportions, and without adding excessive amounts. Your crystal volumes look fine to me.
I also don't have a problem with adding a little sugar to dry things out a bit if it is necessary, but if I were to brew that recipe (without the oats or sugar), I would get a FG of about 1.08 which is plenty dry enough. I must admit that I mash at 150F for 90 minutes. (According to Ray Daniels - designing Great Beers - the mash temperature is typical for Bitters).

-a.

Click to expand...

Are you also doing a thick mash (1quart/pound) and/or a mash out?

Ok scheduling these for a February brew day then. I'll stick away a sixer of the original in the closet till the next round is ready.

Bitter 2.0
6 lbs 8.0 oz Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) Grain 83.87 %
8.0 oz Crystal Light - 45L (Crisp) (45.0 SRM) Grain 6.45 %
4.0 oz Crystal Extra Dark - 120L (Crisp) (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.80 %] (60 min) Hops 30.3 IBU
0.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.80 %] (15 min) Hops 7.5 IBU
0.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.80 %] (0 min) Hops -
8.0 oz Turbinado (10.0 SRM) Sugar 6.45 %
1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) Yeast-Ale

Bitter 2.1
Same as above but replacing the Extra Dark with Amber malt to see what it does.

Both will be hit with the 150 mash temp for 90 minutes, not sure yet on 1Quart/pound or going thinner this time around.

SwampassJ said:

Are you also doing a thick mash (1quart/pound) and/or a mash out?

Click to expand...

Yes and yes.
The thick mash has always worked well for me, but it does need some additional stirring to eliminate dough balls. I also do a mash out because I fly sparge. Without the mash out, the grain bed temperature during the sparge stays in the low 150s even with sparge water in the 180s. With the mash out, I can get the grain bed temp into the upper 160s and I get an extra 10% efficiency. I suspect that the increased efficiency is partly caused by the higher temperature, and partly by the stirring in of the mash out water.

-a.

The recipe above looks good, very much like my bitters. However, if you are looking for a bit more complexity, I would suggest subbing the turbinado sugar for a light brewers invert. It is easy to make and will provide both flavor and additional fermentability.

Also, a bit of Amber malt (3-4%) is a great addition for bitters, especially when using 1968/1469/1882/1318 and yeasts that drop rich, fruity esters. Too much amber malt in with a neutral yeast can be a bit overpowering.

4oz Brown Malt and 4oz Biscuit gave me a nice complexity. I didn't use any Crystal though.

I'd try
6.5 lbs MO
.5lb C 45
4oz Brown
4oz C120
Hops and Turbinado for IBUS and OG

Bob said:

Daniels also tells us Bitter is brewed with sugar adjuncts. Can't invoke only a part of the Bitter chapter of Designing Great Beers! My Bitter (see Pride of Raubsville in my recipe dropdown) uses 10% sugar and a low mash temperature.

A good Bitter will use Crystal malt to regain some of the backbone lost by substituting sugar for malt. Remember, sugar gained wide acceptance in Britain back when the Free Mash Tun Act was enacted.

That's why I subscribe to the 80/10/10% breakdown of the grist - 80% pale malt, 10% Crystal and 10% sugar. It's appropriate to what goes into commercial Bitter, and it just plain works.

Cheers,

Bob

Click to expand...

You say
"Daniels also tells us Bitter is brewed with sugar adjuncts. "
What he actually says is
"the most common ingredient after pale and crystal malts is sugar, which is included in one-third of all bitter recipes."
I interpret that to mean that two-thirds of the recipes don't use sugar, or in other words most recipes don't use sugar

You say
"A good Bitter will use Crystal malt ..."
Daniels says
"The other malt most commonly found in these recipes will be some sort of crystal or caramel malt, which is found in about three-quarters of all commercial products these days."
Does this mean that the 25% recipes that don't use crystal are bad recipes?

Can't invoke only a part of the Bitter chapter of Designing Great Beers!

-a.

As was said, I wouldn't try my hand at adding things to the grain bill: that recipe looks very solid, apart maybe from the oats. I'd want a tad more bitterness though. Amber malt is very good. I've tried (again) futzing around with special roast as per Jamil's preference and it just doesn't compare. In fact, I just bought some amber malt and will go back to stocking it at all times from now on.

I have found that a small portion of chocolate malt in the grist (1-3 oz at the most) can lend a pleasant complexity to the beer. Different hops might also be the ticket. I'm a Goldings man, but it doesn't scratch every itch... Sometimes I just feel in a Fuggles or Willamette mood and I actually prefer the woody, grassy, minty hops the darker my bitter gets.

One more thing, if you are fining your beers using gelatin, maybe try to use less gelatin or stop using it at all. There is a marked difference in the aroma in the bitters I fine compared to the bitters I just cool crash at 7 days and then bottle. They are a tiny bit hazier, but the aroma is a lot more powerful.

I gave up on gelatin, it didn't help with my chill haze and the majority of the beers I make either get cold crashed or I use more flocculating yeast. I'm actually looking forward to the beer with the amber just to see what it tastes like.

ajf said:

You say
"Daniels also tells us Bitter is brewed with sugar adjuncts. "
What he actually says is
"the most common ingredient after pale and crystal malts is sugar, which is included in one-third of all bitter recipes."
I interpret that to mean that two-thirds of the recipes don't use sugar, or in other words most recipes don't use sugar

You say
"A good Bitter will use Crystal malt ..."
Daniels says
"The other malt most commonly found in these recipes will be some sort of crystal or caramel malt, which is found in about three-quarters of all commercial products these days."
Does this mean that the 25% recipes that don't use crystal are bad recipes?

Can't invoke only a part of the Bitter chapter of Designing Great Beers!

Click to expand...

Touche!

What I was driving at is that sugars, adjuncts and Crystal malt play a massive role in Bitter brewing, and we ignore those ingredients at our peril. On the one hand, we shudder to think of brewing Bitter with US 2-row - we insist on UK pale malt of some type - but on the other we think nothing of flippantly ignoring the other de rigeur ingredients. Why?

I've brewed excellent, tastes like the landlord at the Dog & Duck pulled it from a pump, UK-style Bitter with all American malts, American yeast and - shudder - American hops! But I did use Crystal malt, the right hops at the right time, adjuncts, and a fermentation regime which promoted esters.

Bob

It's posters like you guys that makes this forum so ****ing awesome. I neee to get that book now.

SwampassJ said:

I gave up on gelatin, it didn't help with my chill haze and the majority of the beers I make either get cold crashed or I use more flocculating yeast. I'm actually looking forward to the beer with the amber just to see what it tastes like.

Click to expand...

It lends a very nice dry, toasted character to the beer, with some cocoa/roastiness the more you add. Just use it in moderation, since it can throw a delicate beer like a best bitter out of balance fast (too toasty/bitter). I have some tasting notes from a bitter I brewed last year and I figure 3-10% is plenty, with 4-5% being the sweet spot for me. It helps the malt backbone without having to resort to crystal.

The lovibond also varies a LOT from malster to malster, so I'd err on the side of caution if you get your hand on the 30L+ stuff (Fawcett, for example, is a lot darker than Crisp).

I think I would toast 1LB of the base malt to add some toasted character.

Wife is running up north for a 10 year school reunion so I'm left home for Thanksgiving weekend so it's brew day a few months early. Only going to get one batch since my freezer is full so it's trusty swamp cooler time.

Bitter 2.0
7LBS Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) Grain 83.87 %
8.0 oz Crystal Light - 45L (Crisp) (45.0 SRM) Grain 6.45 %
4.0 oz Amber(Crisp) (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.80 %] (60 min) Hops 30.3 IBU
0.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.80 %] (15 min) Hops 7.5 IBU
0.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.80 %] (0 min) Hops -
8.0 oz Turbinado (10.0 SRM) Sugar 6.45 %
1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) Yeast-Ale

Still same 150degree 90 minute mash planned.

Ok brew is in the carboy and chilling to 64 before pitching. I forgot the whirfloc (not a big deal) and misplaced my Turbinado so that got left out. Missed my mash temp by 2 degrees low and had a ***** of a time holding that temp due to changing my usual method of letting the cooler sit in the sun (didn't get started till after sunset) so leaving the sugar out might not do more than change the flavor slightly with my mash temp mishap.

I hate cleaning up in the dark.

how'd this turn out?

working on a special bitter recipe with amber malt that happens to have a grist quite similar to yours minus the turbinado (although still considering it)

I had issues with it clearing. After letting it sit at 32 degrees for 3+ weeks I decided to just bottle it. Even at room temp it is a cloudy as a wheat beer so I'm guessing it has a starch haze problem but it tested negative after the mash. Taste wise the amber is really dominant, it's easy to pick out compared to the original and it has just enough Diacetyl left in the beer to give it a good flavor. The beer is just FUGLY.

thanks for the info - i used 6oz Amber in a Cal Common and it was definitely a dominant flavor - will prob back it down to 3-4oz

this is what i've got so far - pretty funny how close it is to your recipe, i had formulated it before I found this thread

6 lbs 8.0 oz Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) 81.3 %
12.0 oz Crystal, Medium (Simpsons) (55.0 SRM) 9.4 %
4.0 oz Amber Malt (35.0 SRM) 3.1 %
8.0 oz Turbinado (10.0 SRM) 6.3 %
1.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min - 29.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min - 5.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min - 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968)

5.5gal post boil
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 9.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 34.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %

SwampassJ said:

7 lb 10oz Maris Otter (Crisp) (3.0 SRM)
1 lb Munich10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Crystal - 40L (Briess?) (40.0 SRM)
4.0 oz Crystal Extra Dark - 120L (Briess?) (120.0 SRM)
.12 oz Roasted Barely for a red hue (my uncle keeps bugging me for a red beer)
1.40 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (FWH) Hops 27.6 IBU
0.85 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (15 min) Hops 7.5 IBU
0.85 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (0 min) Hops - 0
8.0 oz Turbinado (10.0 SRM) Sugar 5 %
1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002)

34.4IBU OG 1.049

Click to expand...

Re brewing the original recipe with a change to the hopping with some munich and a touch of roasted barely (Going to cap the mash with it). I don't think I'll use Amber in this style again, it still is the most dominant flavor in the 2nd bitter and while drinkable, it blocks a lot of the other flavors until it's almost room temp. That being said, I wouldn't mind amber in maybe a brown but it just to me tastes like a roasted barely like bitterness.

How much amber malt did you use? 2.5-3% shouldn't be overpowering in a bitter at all. I wouldn't use 5%, though at those levels it can start to give a dry cocoa type flavor which is actually quite nice in browns/porters.

Only other thing I can think of that would make the amber malt flavor seem out of place at those levels is a very low FG and/or high bitterness and sulfate. Or a yeast problem, especially if your yeast did not drop clear.

Not all amber malt is made the same. There's a pretty wide spectrum when it comes to toasting levels, actually. The Fawcett stuff, in particular, is really strong stuff. Crisp makes a more "polite" amber malt. I've never tried Simpson's, Franco Belges, or any of the other versions. Now that I think about it, I may need to order some. Experimentation is in order!

GuldTuborg said:

Not all amber malt is made the same. There's a pretty wide spectrum when it comes to toasting levels, actually. The Fawcett stuff, in particular, is really strong stuff. Crisp makes a more "polite" amber malt. I've never tried Simpson's, Franco Belges, or any of the other versions. Now that I think about it, I may need to order some. Experimentation is in order!

Click to expand...

Wow if crisp is the tamer version I am in awe. At .25lbs it was very present.

Small change on this batch. 1275 Thames Valley yeast.

This batch really doesn't want to be brewed today. Dropped my water 5 gallon water jug cracking the plastic all the way around the bottom so I had to go buy a new jug. My thermometer decided to walk off on me and I spent an hour looking for it after the water jug breakage. Now my cooler mashtun doesn't want to hold temperature. 45 minutes in and I have dropped from 152 to 145. Added boiling water till the temps hit back to 152.

But there is a bright side to this crap. The new water jug I bought is a #1 recycle code and I've been itching to get a new cooler mash tun (preferably a round 10 gallon one) to make storage easier.