Help!? Fermentation won't start!?

We get many posts that a fermentation hasn't started. I'm wondering if anyone has ever had a fermentation that really didn't start after pitching the yeast and given at least 72 hours time?

I've had them take 2.5 days at max where that sense of panic starts but they've always took off eventually. I don't worry any longer.

I used to have seriously long lag times. I was using liquid yeast without a starter and no aeration. I have since changed my ways significantly.

Including the time it sat in my starter, I had a lag time of about 100 hours, which was only rectified when I got another vial of yeast. The reason, I believe, is that the yeast was about three months past its best by date.

The longer I've had wasn't much longer than a day, maybe not even a full 24 hours, before it began bubbling. But, I've used dry yeast on all but a couple of batches.

never a problem with beer but the mikes hard lemonade clone is a b**tch
to get started.
after 5 days i have positive pressure in the airlock and the odd bubble when i flick it.
doing another starter as i write this.

My first batch many years ago showed no fermentation after 6 days. Still as a pond...My "supplier" sold me dead dried yeast. He apologized and I got a replacement. The beer started up just fine after that but as I remember, it had a slightly "funky" nose. I invited my college buddies in and it was gone within days.

My first lager - old yeast (a few days from it's 4 month expiration date), cooled wort before pitching. After ten days of hope, I put a heat pad on low against the carboy and once it heated to 68F it went crazy. That brew turned out really good.
I guess it had a pre-ferm lager...

rod said:

never a problem with beer but the mikes hard lemonade clone is a b**tch
to get started.
after 5 days i have positive pressure in the airlock and the odd bubble when i flick it.
doing another starter as i write this.

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Do you add any yeast nutrients or an energizer? If you don't, I think next time it would help get it going faster.

Many people have stated when they made Edworts Apfelwein they've had SO2 generation. (Sulfur Gas - Rotten Egg Smell) I believe rhino farts where the term used to describe this. I used 2 oz of yeast energizer. (Overkill - Borrowed from another cider recipe) No smell what so ever. It took four days to start seeing signs of activity. Pressure in the lock w/ bubble activity. It was also at 58-60'F!! I didn't rehydrate just sprinkled the yeast on top.

I've been rehydrating my dry yeasts like they say on the package and the starts are quick 4-6 hours maybe. I will put the carboy cap on with an S-lock, then cap the blow off. In a short time ~ 4-6 hours sometimes less there are signs of positive pressure in the lock. The fluid levels aren't the same.

After seeing this I forget about it for at least 24hrs.

BTW - I aerate the hell out my batches by shaking or swirling the closed fermenter, quick circular movements on the counter top. Lots and lots of sloshing. I can shake 3 gal, have to swirl the 5 gal.

yes - i used yeast nutrient and yeast energizer.
i also started the yeast 24 hrs before pitching and slowly added some lemonade concentrate along with the sugar water to condition it to the acid condition.
this time i did not use my oxygen stone though.-maybe thats the culprit.
thanks for the reply

What yeast type are you using? Wonder if its the right type for the job. hmmm.

this is my 4th batch with the lavlin ec-1118.
the first one i made in august when the house was 75 degrees.
the last 3 were in the fall and winter with a temp of 69.
maybe thats it - i will wrap my heat belt around the carboy to see.
note - i haven't drunk 4 batches - i make it for a couple of friends

I was looking at wyeast website. Maybe a better yeast to use might be a Belgian.

Scroll down to the bottom where you see this "BRETTANOMYCES & LACTIC CULTURES"

4 of the 5 seem to be good for acidity or low pH.


http://www.wyeastlab.com/beprlist.htm

I've never used any of these. You might ask others what they think.

You might just as well email Wyeast & White Labs and see what they recommend for next time.

rod said:

note - i haven't drunk 4 batches - i make it for a couple of friends

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LOL - We don't persecute people for being lushes around here. We are usually just envious.

I admitt I have a drinking problem.... I don't drink enough!!!

I've never had a non-starter. I use liquids and most recently, harvested batches.

I always get a huge starter going 4-5 days ahead of time. If I'm looking at dead yeast, I'll sure know it by brew day.

PS - The Belgian yeast is awesome (WLP400). Such a rapid krausen though that I found it actually beached itself on the wall of the carboy and I had to swirl it to re-introduce it.

thanks for the link.
i have been adding 2 tablespoons of gypsum to help with the acidity.
i have the brew belt on it now to warm it up - hopefully it will get going better now

I think I had one not start, but I dont remember why.

rod said:

thanks for the link.
i have been adding 2 tablespoons of gypsum to help with the acidity.
i have the brew belt on it now to warm it up - hopefully it will get going better now

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Unless I got this backwards doesn't gypsum lower the pH? I think calcium carbonate raise pH.

The lemonade on its own will be low in pH from the citric & acsorbic acids.

thank- you schlenkeria - i assumed - obviously incorrectly that as it incresed hardness it increased ph - i was wrong

Calcium Sulfate
(CaSO4*2 H2O)
a.k.a. Gypsum 61.5 ppm
Ca+2
147.4 ppm
SO4-2 4.0 Lowers pH

so i have been compounding my problem instead of correcting it.

thanks again:rockin:

rod said:

thank- you schlenkeria - i assumed - obviously incorrectly that as it incresed hardness it increased ph - i was wrong

Calcium Sulfate
(CaSO4*2 H2O)
a.k.a. Gypsum 61.5 ppm
Ca+2
147.4 ppm
SO4-2 4.0 Lowers pH

so i have been compounding my problem instead of correcting it.

thanks again:rockin:

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Let us know if you get it neutralized somewhat and if it eventually kicks into gear.

I use the EC-1118 for my blueberry wine and ferment cold. I did get one stuck and had to pitch another starter a few years ago. Since then I have been pitching 2 packs and have had no trouble.

just an update - on wednesday it had kicked into gear with 1 bubble per second.
this was 10 days after first yeast pitch. i tasted it on the tuesday and it wasn't funky so i think i am ok.
thanks for all the input.

Yuri_Rage said:

I used to have seriously long lag times. I was using liquid yeast without a starter and no aeration. I have since changed my ways significantly.

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may i ask what it is you changed

I've got an oktoberfest in the primary that just started showing some krausen. we pitched one pack of wyeast 2112 w/o a starter and could've aerated it more. It took about 102 hours to get going, still not strong.

I don't remember having a batch not start within ~24-36 hours. I don't remember much about my early years of brewing, I've killed too many brain cells since then. I've had an oxygen injection stone for as long as I can remember, which is probably the main reason I haven't had a problem with starts.

Holy zombie thread batman, it's back from the dead!!!

My last fermentation took longer to start because I pitched too cold and it took longer than I anticipated for my keezer to get up to 64 degrees. It was because there were a few kegs of 34 degree liquid in there; beer, water, soda etc. After 4 days it finally got up to temp and the fermentation took right off.

I'm having a slow start right now. I've made over a dozen five gallon batches from this same technique with no problems.

1. cider from local orchard (5 gallons)
2. dissolved 1.5lbs cane sugar into warm gallon of cider
3. added into carboy with 5 crushed campden tables
4. waited 24 hours and pitched liquid yeast

no fermentation after a few days, thought it was too cold. I warmed it up and no luck. Added dry (Pasteur champaign yeast) and still nothing after 24 hours. It's hit the 6 day mark now and I'm running out of ideas, any suggestions?

trouserless said:

I'm having a slow start right now. I've made over a dozen five gallon batches from this same technique with no problems.

1. cider from local orchard (5 gallons)
2. dissolved 1.5lbs cane sugar into warm gallon of cider
3. added into carboy with 5 crushed campden tables
4. waited 24 hours and pitched liquid yeast

no fermentation after a few days, thought it was too cold. I warmed it up and no luck. Added dry (Pasteur champaign yeast) and still nothing after 24 hours. It's hit the 6 day mark now and I'm running out of ideas, any suggestions?

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Have you actually taken a hydromter reading, or are you using another method to ascertain whether or not you really have fermentation? MOST of the "stuck fermentation" or "Fermentation not starting" folks were people who used airlock bubbling as a definition when they said "no activity" instead of an accurate tool for measuring fermentation. Then when they actually got over their fear of using one, they came back and said they were panicking for nothing.

Revvy said:

Have you actually taken a hydromter reading, or are you using another method to ascertain whether or not you really have fermentation? MOST of the "stuck fermentation" or "Fermentation not starting" folks were people who used airlock bubbling as a definition when they said "no activity" instead of an accurate tool for measuring fermentation. Then when they actually got over their fear of using one, they came back and said they were panicking for nothing.

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Well to be honest, I've never been too scientific about the cider making as it's always been miles easier then wine and beer to make. I have not made measurements with a hydrometer or other such device and was relying on the airlock method solely. Every batch of cider I've ever made was popping the airlock within 15 hours and it went strong for days (4+). I'd have a repeat of that when going into secondary as well.

Is it possible to ferment without this aggressive popping?

trouserless said:

Well to be honest, I've never been too scientific about the cider making as it's always been miles easier then wine and beer to make. I have not made measurements with a hydrometer or other such device and was relying on the airlock method solely. Every batch of cider I've ever made was popping the airlock within 15 hours and it went strong for days (4+). I'd have a repeat of that when going into secondary as well.

Is it possible to ferment without this aggressive popping?

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It's possible to ferment with NO airlock popping....

Read these posts

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/no-fermentation-lost-re-pitch-105051/#post1156967

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/how-long-will-my-airlock-bubble-140848/#post1600236

You can't tell is you have fermentation if all you judge is an airlock....

Thanks Revvy. Truth is, I googled to find this place, joined so I could search for answers, and after not seeing any of the above I had to ask the noob question somewhere.

Glad I found this place, a great resource!

Do you add any yeast nutrients or an energizer? If you don't, I think next time it would help get it going faster.

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Quoting Ian Smiley: "when using an all grain batch, yeast nutrients are in abundance"

Of course this is in the context of only an all grain bill and fermenting a whisky mash using Turbo yeasts. Maybe it's a good thought.

I just had a cider take 2 weeks to start because I over sulfited and it took a while to evaporate off enough to allow the yeast to start.

After 5 days of an all grain Raisin-Oat Toasted Pale Ale with a starting gravity of 1.041 after sparge and I'm now down to 1.014 without any visible sign of fermentation on any previous day. I also checked the seals and everything appears in tact. I'm baffled.

The batch went smoothly from grind to seal, the Fermentis US-05 yeast packet, (dry), was new and best-by date was Jan 2011 and was well kept. Yeast was pitched dry in 68F, (I'm probably overly confident in Fermentis products). When I moved the batch off to secondary, (leaving the last 2 liters), I noticed an immediate fermentation in the dregs starting up. I tasted a bit of the settled remnant after moving it to secondary and it is likely one of my best brews. Has anybody seen this before?

Thanks,

Mike

well i have my fair share of this issue.
i have pomegranate wine didn't start! another one stuck @ 5% abv and repitch didn't help either

and hard lemonade till later on add bigger repitch ... well thats understandable lemonade is sour for yeasty beasty

i don't know about pom wines thou i used EC1118 in all 3 cases and same yeast pack on my other wines so its not case of old yeast and as far as i can see on pack said it expires on 2018-5 :cross: so bit confusing ....