Tropical IPA Recipe thoughts?

This is my first time posting so I hope I am posting this in the correct place. I am trying to build my first all grain recipe. I have brewed all grain for a few years now but I have never tried my hand at building out my own grain bill. So with that in mind I am trying to go after more of a new school ipa. One that you get tropical fruit out of and is not a punch you in the face with hops IPA. A more subtitle ipa. I still want a good hop character and I want it to smell fantastic as well. Let me know what you think for the grain bill below. Any advice is appreciated.

Grains:
11 lb 8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row)
8 oz Honey Malt
8 oz Biscuit Malt

Hops:
.5 oz Warrior 60min
.25 oz Warrior 45 min
.5 oz Citra 20 min
.5 Cascade 20 min
.5 Citra 10 min
.5 Cascade 5 min
.25 Cascade 0 min
.25 Citra 0 min

Yeast:
Wyeast Labs American Ale 1056

Will this hit the mark with what I am going for?

If you want it to smell fantastic you're really going to want to dry hop the brew. Personally I would also just go for a grain bill with just 2 row and a pound or so of a light crystal malt. If you just want a nice tropical IPA with just the hop character shining through I think that would be best.

As Big Mack points out, in an IPA a simple grain bill is generally going to be best. If you want more richness than pale two-row, you could swap all of it for Vienna (and pair it with C20L, as suggested).

To smooth the hop bitterness slightly, you could move your Warrior additions later - say a half ounce each at 45 and 30 minutes.

For yeast, my brewpub-owning friend loves Wyeast 1332 Northwest - a little fruitier than 1056, with an additional (and slightly different) bitterness that comes from the yeast.

Vienna could work, although I think a lot of people underestimate what they can get from just 2 row and a little crystal malt. And agreed on the warrior. You could also FWH it for a smoother bitterness.

On the yeast front, I've been using 1272 (American Ale II) recently and I really like it. I think it gives just a little bit more character than 1056/001 and I think it floccs a bit better leaving a clearer beer with a more compact yeast cake.

+1 for 1272, for a tropical IPA. It has what I can only describe as a snap to it, sort of tartness that will emphasis fruit qualities.

IMO malty characters good better with tropical hops as opposed to things like biscuit and honey malt. IMO either stick to a small crystal addition or use munich. A combination of both is good as long as you dial back the crystal

Biscuit/honey etc good better with C hops imo. I always add a touch of wheat to my IPA's too.

I would mash low, but if want more of a westcoast (which imo goes better with tropical hops) riase the mash so your final est gravity is in the 10-12 range, so possibly even 14 if you like a syrupy IPA.

You will want to do a dry hop. You may also want to consider swapping out cascade for something like Galaxy, mosaic, equinox etc as these will emphasis the tropical qualities more. Especially galaxy.

Increasing the amount of hops won't see you bad either, perhaps 1-3 oz dry hop, 1-3oz at knockout and an oz or so in the boil at 10 min mark Though I have had sucess with multiple late boil additions, there isn't much difference between 15, 10 and 5.

I would keep Citra out of the main boil, at knock is normally ok. A hopstand is optional but will make your knockout addtions work for you more.

IBU are going to depend on what you want from taste wise, something as low as 30 for a westcoast with final gravity of 1.010 and as high as 50 for 1.014.

Eastcoast, worlds your oyster.

JohnReynolds said:

I am trying to go after more of a new school IPA. One that you get tropical fruit out of and is not a punch you in the face with hops IPA. A more subtitle IPA. I still want a good hop character and I want it to smell fantastic as well. Let me know what you think for the grain bill below. Any advice is appreciated.

Grains:
11 lb 8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row)
8 oz Honey Malt
8 oz Biscuit Malt

Hops:
.5 oz Warrior 60min
.25 oz Warrior 45 min
.5 oz Citra 20 min
.5 Cascade 20 min
.5 Citra 10 min
.5 Cascade 5 min
.25 Cascade 0 min
.25 Citra 0 min

Yeast:
Wyeast Labs American Ale 1056

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I really hate Honey malt. I don't think it goes in an IPA. I'd swap it with 8 ozs off light Crystal. I think the Biscuit might add a nice touch, but I think that goes more with an English IPA rather than the fruity American ones.

Hops: Whats the 45 min for, why not have all at 60. Citra and cascade at 20 seems too be a waste, you should move it later. My biggest addition is normally at 0, and I get the wort down to 175, and then add it, and leave it for a hour before finishing cooling - look up Hopstand. 2.5 ozs of flavor/aroma hops seems a little low to me.

You didn't say mash temp. I like my IPAs dry, and mash around 148 - 150 F.

If its tropical you're looking for I'd ditch the citra and cascade and replace it with riwaka and motueka hops.. They are both from new zealand and are some of the most sought after hops by craft brewerys at the moment, due to the tropical fruit notes they impart..

I've just made an IPA with Riwaka and I'm sure some brewers around here who have used it will back me up, THEY ARE A VERY VERY special hop.

Thank you everyone for your input on this. Based on all of your feed back I have changed the grain bill as follows:

Grains:
11 lb 8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row)
1 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L

Hops:
1 oz Warrior 30 min
.5 oz Amarillo Gold 10 min
.5 Galaxy 5 min
1 oz Galaxy 0 min Steep for 20 min
1 oz Amarillo Gold 0 min Steep for 20 min

Yeast:
Wyeast Labs American Ale II #1272

According to BeerSmith this would give me 65.5 IBU's which is right in the range I am looking for.

That will be fairly bitter, but you do have a good amount of crystal. What temperature do you intend to mash at?

152.0 f

keep crystal under 5%. maybe just use vienna/munich instead? wheat is great for adding body but not sweetness, 10 to even 20% works well in ipas. alot of commercial brewers say to keep crystal under 5%, and use 5-10% of dextrose/sugar/etc to avoid sweetness. drop the temp down to 149-150, and extend the mash time to make sure you dont carry alot of residual sugars.

i'd move bittering back to 60min. you dont really want any flavor from warrior, just the ibus. lower the amount if you dont want that much bitterness.

for the fruity hops, keep them late, 10min at most is fine but could even go later. and definitely i'd say to split your steeping/hopstand additions. 20min isnt much time, better to go at least 30 if not 40 or 60. give it a whirl with your spoon every few minutes to keep hops in suspension and not on bottom of kettle where they pile onto each other and dont give you flavor. and for your steep additions- split them in half. first half at flameout, then the other half at the midway point of your hopstand/whirlpool.

then crash like hell and get it cold asap to lock in the flavors.

you planning on doing dry hop? might be good idea to help with aroma.

good luck.

OK so your have some residue sugar to stand up against the malt. I have done 70 IBU's in a IPA that finished 1.010. It was probably to bitter. I recently did a IPA that finished similar containing crystal/Munich at 60ibus and I would still say it is on the bitter side for say a west coast but is perfect for an East coast style.

60 IBUs is bitter??? I guess I am another victim of the "dreaded" cohumulene shift.

65 IBUs for an IPA seems pretty standard, and what I love about the 1272 is that I think it definitely lets the malt and the hops shine.

+1 for WY 1272. I've also had great results with WLP051 in recent batches. Cheers.

I agree, 1272 is delicious, just finished drinking a 1272 + galaxy pale and I was sad to see it go.
However, tropical in the thread title and nobody has mentioned WLP644 yet?

alhounos said:

I agree, 1272 is delicious, just finished drinking a 1272 + galaxy pale and I was sad to see it go.
However, tropical in the thread title and nobody has mentioned WLP644 yet?

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That would certainly be an option, but based on the original recipe with 1056 I assumed that the goal of the brew was to have the tropical notes come through from the hops and not the yeast. Plus, I just really like suggesting 1272 to people who may not have used it.

slym2none said:

60 IBUs is bitter??? I guess I am another victim of the "dreaded" cohumulene shift.

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It all depends on water profile and residual sugar. The 70 IBU beer that was too bitter was high in sulfates and have a low final gravity with no speciality malts

I would surely dry hop but if you want it subtle then just do an ounce or so for 5 days. I know everyone says that dry hop only brings aroma but my palate disagrees.

I think the grain bill is solid. I enjoy honey malt as well as biscuit in my IPAs.

For bittering I would only do one addition but that's up to you.

Also those 40 (20) minute additions are going to impart more bitterness and less flavor so I would move those closer to 10 and no more than 15.

I am reading a lot of hate for crystal malt in an IPA online. Why is that? Why the negativity for using crystal malt in an IPA? Also right now this beer is marked at about 5.9 SRM how could I get a little more color in there without adding more of the dreaded crystal malt to the grain bill?

Use some munich or a small handful of roasted barley. I dont really care about color for my IPAs, but I avoid crystal malts like the plague. Some people like the residual sweetness they add, but to me it can only be detrimental to hop character

The guys telling you to drop the biscuit for crystal malt are crazy. You want zero crystal malt in a juicy tropical IPA. Maybe if you absolutely love crystal malt, then put a something like 1-3% of Crystal 10. If you need convincing, split a batch, one with crystal malt and one without, and see which one makes the better IPA.

Biscuit works well. I would also add a bit of wheat malt, maybe a pound, in place of a pound of 2-row. It helps with head retention.

I like to cut the 2-row 50/50 with pale ale malt, just to add a little more character. I also like some cane sugar to dry the beer out a bit.

The honey malt is probably a bit out of place IMO. I would drop that entirely.


For an American IPA, I would suggest a grist along these lines:

40% 2-row malt
40% pale ale malt
10% red or white wheat malt
7% cane sugar
3% Victory/biscuit malt

JohnReynolds said:

I am reading a lot of hate for crystal malt in an IPA online. Why is that? Why the negativity for using crystal malt in an IPA? Also right now this beer is marked at about 5.9 SRM how could I get a little more color in there without adding more of the dreaded crystal malt to the grain bill?

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What do you need more color for? If you really want it, then add a smidgen of Carafa or some other dehusked dark grain. A very small amount of roasted barley would work as well, but be careful that you don't put enough to where you can taste it.