Hop stand

logdrum said:

Should the whirlpool go clockwise or counter-clockwise?

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Ha! Interesting you say this. I built my brewery around the Coriolis effect for this reason (why not??) My HLT, mash tun (for recirculating) and boil kettle all flow clockwise. The only thing that doesn't is my coil in the HLT, it flows counter-clockwise.

Glynn said:

Great article. I would really like to rid dry hopping from some of my routine and this seems like a great way to go

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i've done hop stands with a few hop forward beers and while the flavor and aroma contributions are better than adding during the boil, they don't replace the beautiful aroma you get from dry hopping

logdrum said:

Should the whirlpool go clockwise or counter-clockwise?

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Smartass! Lol

terrapinj said:

i've done hop stands with a few hop forward beers and while the flavor and aroma contributions are better than adding during the boil, they don't replace the beautiful aroma you get from dry hopping

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If I'm not mistaken, the article had a recipe with both hop stand and dry hop additions. That may be the ticket!

terrapinj said:

i've done hop stands with a few hop forward beers and while the flavor and aroma contributions are better than adding during the boil, they don't replace the beautiful aroma you get from dry hopping

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I dont plan on removing dry hoppng totally but it would be nice to reduce it in my big dry hopped brews such as dipa where the nucleation from the hops makes it a real pain to rack off

I brewed an APA this weekend with my first attempt at a hop stand. Here is the recipe...

9 lbs 2 row
1 lbs Torrified Wheat
.75 lbs 60L Crystal

1 oz Cascade leaf - FWH
.5 oz Centennial - 30 minutes
.5 oz Centennial - 10 Minutes
1 oz Cascade Leaf - Hop Stand for 60 minutes at 160F

I plan to Dry Hop with 1 oz Cascade as well.

US05 yeast

I am very much looking forward to tasting the results!

Any comments, suggestions?

Sounds awesome. I love centennial. You'll have to let us know how the hopstand does.

dhuggett said:

I brewed an APA this weekend with my first attempt at a hop stand. Here is the recipe...

9 lbs 2 row
1 lbs Torrified Wheat
.75 lbs 60L Crystal

1 oz Cascade leaf - FWH
.5 oz Centennial - 30 minutes
.5 oz Centennial - 10 Minutes
1 oz Cascade Leaf - Hop Stand for 60 minutes at 160F

I plan to Dry Hop with 1 oz Cascade as well.

US05 yeast

I am very much looking forward to tasting the results!

Any comments, suggestions?

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If you really want to get a good feel for FO hops you should move those centennial hops to FO as well in a future brew. I've pretty much eliminated my late boil additions and moved them to FO.

McCuckerson said:

Have we decided on the temp yet?

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I decided in my first attempt at hop stand to cool wort to 160F and then add hops, cover and hold for 60min. Still in fermenter, so the vote is still out...

Ive started hop stands at 140-145F and hold them for 30-40 minutes.

The Pale ale im serving now has big hop tropical fruit and floral flavor and aroma. I brewed it for a party full of people who dont like bitter beers so I tried to keep the bitterness low and hop flavor high without getting too much sweetness from the hops to overpower the bitterness.

~24 IBU magnum at 60

.75 oz Galaxy
1 oz Crystal
.75 oz Amarillo all after cooling to 145 F. Temp drops over the 30 minute hop stand to 135F. Stirred with wort chiller once every 5 minutes or so. Fairly labor intensive since I dont have a pump, but for all my hoppy beers Ill be doing this from now on.

I dry hopped with .25 oz galaxy .25 oz amarillo and 1 oz centennial.

I've been using this technique for a while now. When I first started, my beers were too bitter. I adjusted by adding my bittering charge at 30 minutes left in the boil but enter it in beersmith as a 60min addition. At flame out, i add all the rest of my hops calculated in BS as a 20min additio. I then whirlpool for 5 min with a pump, then let it sit for 20 min. I have been working on this for over a year and this me4hod nets me the best results. Tons of hop flavor with none of that sharp bitterness.

Oh yeah, I always dry hop in the keg. I have 2 kegs reserved for hoppy beers only, since the smell never goes away now, even after extended soaking in pbw.

Keith_Mahoney said:

I've been using this technique for a while now. When I first started, my beers were too bitter. I adjusted by adding my bittering charge at 30 minutes left in the boil but enter it in beersmith as a 60min addition. At flame out, i add all the rest of my hops calculated in BS as a 20min additio. I then whirlpool for 5 min with a pump, then let it sit for 20 min. I have been working on this for over a year and this me4hod nets me the best results. Tons of hop flavor with none of that sharp bitterness.

Oh yeah, I always dry hop in the keg. I have 2 kegs reserved for hoppy beers only, since the smell never goes away now, even after extended soaking in pbw.

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Not sure why, but this is not my experience at all. I wonder if you have hops stuck in your diptubes? you can buy a brush that will clean them out...I have one and it works great.

Not scrubbing could be the problem. I only tear down and srub my kegs once a year. I only have 6 kegs so I just keep the same types of beer in each one. I have one for Apfelwein, 2 for PA and IPA, 2 for stouts and dark ales, and one for lagers (I tend to only do vaieations of Vienna lagers)

Does anyone have an opinion on running a pump during a hop stand?

grathan said:

Does anyone have an opinion on running a pump during a hop stand?

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That's what all references to "whirlpooling" are talking about fwiw. I run a pump from 5 minutes or so to go in the boil, at the same time I put in my IC. Then I angle the pump output tube into the coils of the chiller, cool it down to 170 and turn the H20 off from the chiller. I hopstand there for whatever duration I'm planning, and run the h20 through the chiller again until pitch temp. The whole time the pump is whirlpooling the wort around the chiller. Makes a great way to hopstand, and effectively (if you whirlpool in the right direction) turns your IC into more of a counterflow chiller.

Short answer (sometimes I'm verbose ) Yes! Do it!

Thanks, I pretty much do exactly the same. I was just curious if there was preference in terms of flavor and volatility.

I have no idea on the volatility thing, I imagine not...but for flavor, completely anecdotally speaking, I think it improves the aroma/flavor extraction considerably.

wyobrewer1 said:

How much did you dry hop with? The article quoted a study that found by using hop stand/whirlpool techniques you can get away with using less hops. This seems like a great/cheap way to get more aroma and flavor from using less hops.

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Never use less hops.

itoriapt said:

Never use less hops.

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Words to live by!

My single attempt at a Gumballhead clone made with hop stands was a relative failure. I made a bitter beer with no hop flavor and a little aroma. I'm not sure why.

I'm a big hop stand believer for IPAs and pale ales. In 5-gallon IPA batches, I typically do 2 to 3 oz 0-minute additions, whirlpool for a minute or 2, then let it stand covered for 45 minutes.

I've had so much success with this method in the last 6-months that I have actually stopped dry hopping some of my IPAs (yes, I said it). It just seems a bit wasteful when I'm getting such great results from the hop stand.

I won't brew anything hoppy without hop standing anymore. SOOO much better than quickly cooling after flameout. I've made some of the most amazing IPAs with this technique.

I've been experimenting with IPAs that have nothing but FWH and Hop standing. At this point, I haven't been putting any hops in during the boil and the beers come out fantastic.

jmadway said:

I'm a big hop stand believer for IPAs and pale ales. In 5-gallon IPA batches, I typically do 2 to 3 oz 0-minute additions, whirlpool for a minute or 2, then let it stand covered for 45 minutes.

I've had so much success with this method in the last 6-months that I have actually stopped dry hopping some of my IPAs (yes, I said it). It just seems a bit wasteful when I'm getting such great results from the hop stand.

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Haputanlas said:

I won't brew anything hoppy without hop standing anymore. SOOO much better than quickly cooling after flameout. I've made some of the most amazing IPAs with this technique.

I've been experimenting with IPAs that have nothing but FWH and Hop standing. At this point, I haven't been putting any hops in during the boil and the beers come out fantastic.

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Perhaps you guys could share a recipe that really swayed your opinions on hop stands?

I have a hop stand IPA on tap right now that's fantastic.

2.5 gal batch
6lbs MO
2oz 20 crystal
2oz 40 crystal
8oz corn sugar

1oz Columbus FWH
1oz Simcoe FO hop stand 30 min
1oz Mosaic FO hop stand 30 min
1oz Simcoe dry hop
1oz Mosaic dry hop

1pkg S-05 ale yeast

OG 1.073
TG 1.014

grathan said:

Perhaps you guys could share a recipe that really swayed your opinions on hop stands?

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I've got two recipes that I've brewed for a while now that turned out much better the last few times I went through with them (Using FWH and Hop Standing only).

I'll send the recipes in this thread in a few minutes.

Red IPA (Based on Oscar Blues' Gordon).

Note that the Columbus hop Additions show 10 minutes left on the boil. This is to get the IBUs to the number that I've calculated that are true with Hop Standing. However, I add these a couple minutes after flameout and leave them for 30-45 minutes.


Gordon Clone - American IPA
================================================================================
Batch Size: 5.001 gal
Boil Size: 6.000 gal
Boil Time: 0.000 s
Efficiency: 70%
OG: 1.084
FG: 1.021
ABV: 8.2%
Bitterness: 61.4 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 13 SRM (Mosher)

Fermentables
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Pale Malt (2 Row) US Grain 14.000 lb Yes No 79% 2 L
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L Grain 1.400 lb Yes No 74% 40 L
Munich Malt - 20L Grain 1.050 lb Yes No 75% 20 L
Carastan Grain 1.050 lb No No 74% 40 L
Chocolate Malt (US) Grain 0.100 oz Yes No 60% 350 L

Hops
================================================================================
Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus 12.0% 4.000 oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 44.3
Northern Brewer 8.5% 0.750 oz Boil 1.333 hr Pellet 17.1
Amarillo 7.0% 2.150 oz Dry Hop 0.000 s Pellet 0.0

Yeast
================================================================================
Name Type Form Amount Stage
Safale S-05 Ale Dry 2.232 tsp Primary

Mash
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Target Time
Infusion 0.000 tsp 152.000 F 1.500 hr

Hoppy Wheat

Same note about the late additions.


Pale Malt (2 Row) US Grain 7.100 lb 2 L
Red Wheat Malt Grain 3.400 lb 2 L

Columbus 15.8% 0.37 oz FWH 60.000 min Pellet - 18 IBUs
Cascade 6.8% 1.000 oz Boil Hop Stand for 20 min Pellet - 11.5 IBU


Cascade 6.0%% 2.000 oz Dry Hop 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Nelson Sauvin 11.0%% 2.000 oz Dry Hop 0.000 s Pellet 0.0

Yeast
WLP007 or English Ale Strain

OG 1.053
FG 1.011

IBU 25

I am a hopstand believer as well. I have to admit, with a hop bag this method is incredibly easy!

grathan said:

Perhaps you guys could share a recipe that really swayed your opinions on hop stands?

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Ok, here's an extract recipe that has no 60 minute addition and is only a 20-minute boil (I've been trying out short boils on extract brews lately). It utilizes hop bursting and relies completely on late addition hops for bittering, hop flavor, and aroma. And the hop stand does wonders. It makes a fantastic double IPA. You get a ton of hop flavor without abrasive bitterness.

OG: 1.078
FG: 1.013
ABV: 8.7%

Brew Notes:
- 20min Boil
- 1/2 extract added at flame out (before flameout hops)
- Corn sugar added at flameout
- 45 minute hop stand with whirlpool at beginning

12lbs Pale LME
1lb Corn sugar

Hop bursting Style

1oz Simcoe 20min
.6 oz Columbus 20min
1oz Simcoe 15min
1oz Citra 15min
1oz Citra 10min
1oz Simcoe 10min
1oz Citra 0min
1oz Simcoe 0min

I've been using this technique lately and it works wonders, if you do it correctly. I saw someone mention using FWH to smooth out the bitterness and I completely agree with that approach also. After that, 15, 10, and 5 min. additions should be all you focus on. Really, with 10 and 5 min. additions being more of a concern and focus area. Then, for flameout/whirlpool, get the temp dropped down to 180F in the kettle and add in your flameout hops. If you don't have the ability to whirlpool, it's not a huge deal on a 5 of 10 gal. batch. Just put the lid on your kettle and let it steep for 20 to 30 min. Don't let the kettle temp get below 150F though and try to keep it around 180F if you can. After that, chill as you normally would. Obviously if you want to dry hop, go for it.

I just did a pale ale with Mosaic and Amarillo.

My hop schedule was 1oz of Mosaic @ 60min 12.3%AA

That was the only boil addition for 30IBU using Tinseth.

1oz Amarillo
1oz Mosaic 15 min steep

1oz Amarillo
1oz Mosaic for a 5 min steep.

Another ounce of both for dry hop.

I didn't do an elongated stand and I didn't chill at all before I added the hops, so the stand temperature was close to 200F for most of the time and the kettle was tightly covered. I can tell you the hop flavor and aroma is intense. I would expect it to be with 4 oz of hops anywhere near flameout, but the character is certainly more potent. I would guess that the IBU were increased somewhat as well, it is more bitter than 30 IBU for sure. It's so much hop flavor that I may back off next time, which is a ridiculous thing for me to say, so my opinion is this technique certainly works.

trent said:

Ha! Interesting you say this. I built my brewery around the Coriolis effect for this reason (why not??) My HLT, mash tun (for recirculating) and boil kettle all flow clockwise. The only thing that doesn't is my coil in the HLT, it flows counter-clockwise.

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The physics teacher in me wants to say something about this, but I'm a couple of graffs in and I just don't care. Cheers!

I am performing a 60 minute hop stand in an APA as we speak! I have done hop stands on my last three ales and have been very happy with the results. Here is the recipe for the current ale...



Cascade APA I
American Pale Ale
All Grain (5.00 gal) ABV: 5.30 %
OG: 1.053 SG FG: 1.013 SG
IBUs: 35.0 IBUs Color: 8.5 SRM

Ingredients

8 lb - Pale Malt (2 Row) US - Mash addition (78.0%) - 2.0 SRM
1 lb - Munich Malt - 10L -Mash addition (9.8%) - 10.0 SRM
8.0 oz - Vienna Malt - Mash addition (4.9%) - 3.5 SRM
12.0 oz - Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L - Mash addition (7.3%) - 60.0 SRM'

1.50 oz - Cascade -First Wort Addition (35.0 IBUs)
2.50 oz - Cascade - Hop Stand @ 160F 60 min (0.0 IBUs)
2.00 oz - Cascade - Dry Hop 5 days

S-04 yeast - i.5 liter starter


Pot and Cooler ( 5 Gal/19 L) - All Grain
Single Infusion @ 152F, Medium Body


Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

Cheers!

dhuggett said:

I am performing a 60 minute hop stand in an APA as we speak! I have done hop stands on my last three ales and have been very happy with the results. Here is the recipe for the current ale...

Cascade APA I
American Pale Ale
All Grain (5.00 gal) ABV: 5.30 %
OG: 1.053 SG FG: 1.013 SG
IBUs: 35.0 IBUs Color: 8.5 SRM

Ingredients

8 lb - Pale Malt (2 Row) US - Mash addition (78.0%) - 2.0 SRM
1 lb - Munich Malt - 10L -Mash addition (9.8%) - 10.0 SRM
8.0 oz - Vienna Malt - Mash addition (4.9%) - 3.5 SRM
12.0 oz - Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L - Mash addition (7.3%) - 60.0 SRM'

1.50 oz - Cascade -First Wort Addition (35.0 IBUs)
2.50 oz - Cascade - Hop Stand @ 160F 60 min (0.0 IBUs)
2.00 oz - Cascade - Dry Hop 5 days

S-04 yeast - i.5 liter starter

Pot and Cooler ( 5 Gal/19 L) - All Grain
Single Infusion @ 152F, Medium Body

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

Cheers!

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What's your anticipated FG? Seems like it might finish kind of high. But for an APA I think it works. I like your hop schedule, should be an awesome beer.

wyobrewer1 said:

What's your anticipated FG? Seems like it might finish kind of high. But for an APA I think it works. I like your hop schedule, should be an awesome beer.

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I am hoping for FG of between 1.013 and 1.015. If above that range, I will try the same recipe at a lower mash temp.

wyobrewer1 said:

I just read the article in BYO about hop stands. I was thinking about using this technique for my next IPA but wanted to see if anyone had any experience with using this method.

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Thanks for this thread - I would like to read the article - what month/volume was it in? Do you know know if I can access it on line?

Here's the link:
http://byo.com/component/k2/item/2808-hop-stands

Another whirlpool fan here. I usually cool to 150, then do a 30 minute stand. I love huge aromas in my pale ales or IPA's, so I usually do at least 3 oz for a 5 gallon batch.

Plus, it gives you time to clean up. Usually after the hop stand, I finish chilling, aerate and pitch, and them I'm done.

I don't know if this is a stupid question or not but I have read this entire thread (and the article in BYO) and never saw anything about whether the hops are pellet or whole. Can the hop stand concept work using whole hops in a paint strainer bag?

gkeusch said:

I don't know if this is a stupid question or not but I have read this entire thread (and the article in BYO) and never saw anything about whether the hops are pellet or whole. Can the hop stand concept work using whole hops in a paint strainer bag?

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This will work with either whole or pellet hops.