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SeanPM

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Hey all,

I have been holding onto some basic handmedown brewing equipment for a few years and am finally ready to give it a go. Brewday - T minus 9 hours. I have everything sterilised and ready to go.

I'm using a lager kit (I am a pilsner man) which isn't the very basic malt extract...but somewhere in-between - in a muslin mag. The instructions are to boil the muslin bag in 9 pints of water and then pour into carboy and top off with cool water.

Here is my question:

My equipment has a boiling pan big enough to handle a full 5 gallons AND I have a basic copper wort chiller. Would I end up with a better product if I ignored the instructions and used the above equipment?

Quick reply would be appreciated.

THANKS
 
While the more you can boil the better, I would shoot in the middle and maybe do a 3 gallon boil. Saying this only because I don't know exactly what you have, but any wort chiller is better than none at all.

My best advice is to keep EVERYTHING clean and sanitary. If you don't have any sanitizer on hand, I would call off brew day.
 
What's in that bag?
What kind of yeast are you using?

You really need to give more information on that kit to enable people to help you.

Lager is not the easiest beer to start with, if you want it to taste like a lager. Not impossible, but quite finicky.
 
Grains are not usually boiled.

I all you have is a bag of grains and no malt extract then your process needs to be more controlled.

If you expect to end up with a pilsner that tastes like a pilsner then you will need to ferment very cool using a lager yeast for a couple weeks and then lager the beer afterwards for several more weeks. You'd also do best working with soft water.

More information on your recipe/ingredients and equipment would be helpful to give better advice. Also, your yeast and temperature control will play a HUGE roll on the finished product tasting like a lager.
 
Definitely more information is needed. Malt extract itself does not need a muslin bag. You do not want to boil any grains. And you WILL need to sanitize right before using anything that will touch the beer after the boiling stage. It will not be sanitized in nine hours.

A true lager takes very precise temperature control so I believe that you have one of those light ale kits that are called lagers.

If you have no more information or knowledge I would follow the instructions EXCEPT for the timing. Allow a few days or a couple weeks longer for the fermentation and conditioning that they advise in the instructions.
 
Hi all, thanks for the super quick responses.

@kenny_d. http://www.homebrewcentregy.com/beer-cider-kits/mariner-beer-kits/mariner-lager.html that is the lager. Sorry it is very nondescript.

@keystonehomebrew - I have been rigorously sanitising the equipment for the past week. The wort cooler as been in vinegar and everything has gone through bleach and then hombrew satizing solution. One of my main concerns is introducing cold water. Would I better getting bottled water?

@IslandLizard I am not sure what is in the bag - it's a pre-made recipe! I would GUESS that the yeast is probably a top fermenting yeast...because from my research it seems that most kit providers give noob brewers the quickest and most forgiving ingredients they can therefore I hazard the assumption that it is not 'proper' lager yeast.

I have been told more than once that lager is not the easiest to start with....my reply is - I like it the best so it is what I am starting with ;)

@stpug the kit contains dried malt extract and a muslin bag full of other stuff. It instructs you to boil the bag for an hour, pour into carboy with sugar and malt extract and then top with cool water.

I have fridge set up and plenty of patience so I am happy to properly lager my lager.
 
For God's sakes Man, open the bag and see what is in it. If you have no idea what ingredients are in the kit and with little knowledge of brewing Pils. The beer that you expect, might not be what you expect. Especially, with 4 pounds of sugar added in. But, that is how you will learn. The kit is like the ones that came out of Australia and England in the late 70s. I wouldn't be surprised if they recommend dumping everything in a crock and covering it with a towel to keep the flies out.
 
I have the feeling there's hops in the bag, which should be boiled as well as some specialty grains, which should NOT be boiled.

The link explains only a bit more and shows leaf hops and some (unmilled) grains and possibly a bag of a dark dry malt extract, a bag of finings and perhaps a bag of yeast:
Mariner beers are the homebrew centres own recipes each kit contains whole malt, hops, spray malt, yeast & nutirent & finings

To make these 40-pint dry beer kits, you will require: A large boiling pan or Boiler that will hold 9 pints of water and 4lbs of sugar.

Without sanitation there is a good chance this is not going to come out right.

Boiling the bag with 9 pints of water, and dumping the whole lot in a carboy plus 4 pounds of sugar...is not likely gonna make anything I'd call a tasty beer.

At least if you're using rigorous sanitation you may be able to drink it.
 
Well...thanks to all the doubt cast upon the mission, I have called it off for a week. SO in the meantime, does anyone have a nice easy lager recipe for newbs?

And please don't tell me (again) that newbs don't do lager!! :)
 
Good idea to hold the brew off, you would not have been pleased with the results.
I think you could use the ingredients of the kit, just not as is.

For starters, I would probably separate the hops from the grains in the bag.

The grains need to be broken up (pastry roller) and steeped (in the bag) at 150-170°F (65-75°C) and removed from the water before you even start the boil. Adding another pound of milled grain will help to get a much better Pilsner.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter13-2.html
One of the best books on homebrew, you should read it.

Grains should never be boiled unless you really dig that mouth puckering tannin. Being an British lad, you should be familiar with what tea tastes like after a few hours in the pot. I'm sure you want to avoid that in your Pilsner. :D

The hops need to be boiled, so you may want to reuse the bag after removing all the steeping grains from it, or just put the hops in the boil kettle and strain out later.

The amount of sugar the kit instructs you to add (4 pounds!) will make a very dry beer with little flavor. Sugar ferments out completely just giving you alcohol, but no aroma and nothing to provide a smooth flavor, leaving a harsh taste. Even more so if you ferment at higher temperatures, depending on the yeast used. Here's where the yeast factor comes in. Some is just "designed" for lager to ferment at low temperatures (50-55°F).

So, substituting dry malt extract for the sugar will make a much better beer. 1/3 of the dry malt powder should be added at the start of the boil, the rest about 10 minutes before the end.

I'd leave the ultimate recipe to a more experienced lager/Pilsner brewer here.
 
Wow. Great advice - thanks island lizard! question...if I'm gonna pull the bag apart, separate the hops from the grains,boil the hops, break up and steep the grains, by more malt extract, throw the instructions out the window, add the finings and hope it all works...would I not be better writing off £8 and buying the correct ingredients/nice hops/nice grains/good yeast - and give myself the best chance of not brewing some fizzy iced tea ;)
 
SeanPM said:
Wow. Great advice - thanks island lizard! question...if I'm gonna pull the bag apart, separate the hops from the grains,boil the hops, break up and steep the grains, by more malt extract, throw the instructions out the window, add the finings and hope it all works...would I not be better writing off £8 and buying the correct ingredients/nice hops/nice grains/good yeast - and give myself the best chance of not brewing some fizzy iced tea ;)

Sean, I get it you like pilz and that's what you're gonna brew, but let me ask you a question... Would you rather have a pilsner that tastes like the a$$ end of a dead skunk or a light ale that is drinkable? To brew lager you need temperature controller and a dedicated fridge and some experience... My advise is celebrate success and get a Brewers Best light ale kit, brew it and share it with your mates after a month and do the pilsner when you've brewed a few batches and read a couple books! My fear is that you will end up pouring your first batch down the drain and never brew another...
 
This seems like very good advice. If these cheap lager kits contain ale yeast and other more forgiving ingredients, are they not really light ales that have been lagered anyway?

I'd like a kit that uses tangible ingredients rather than a tub of malt goop, so I can become familiar with what makes up my lagered light ale. That is what made me buy the kit I bought.

Are there kits that are made up of hops/grains etc?

Many thanks
 
SeanPM said:
This seems like very good advice. If these cheap lager kits contain ale yeast and other more forgiving ingredients, are they not really light ales that have been lagered anyway?

I'd like a kit that uses tangible ingredients rather than a tub of malt goop, so I can become familiar with what makes up my lagered light ale. That is what made me buy the kit I bought.

Are there kits that are made up of hops/grains etc?

Many thanks

Most kits I've heard of (all by BB to my knowledge) have a bag or two of specialty grains that you steep at 150 for 20-30 min some have DME only most have both LME and DME. Someone above mentioned adding half the extract for the whole boil and the other half 10 min before flame out. Doing this will give you a lighter color (make sure you aren't applying heat when you add extract it can caramelize on the bottom). However my first couple I added it all at the beginning and they turned out fine! Other than that follow the kit instructions (except for 3 weeks in the bottles instead of 2) and you will have a good beer you can be proud of and it will taste even better because you made it!
 
davek said:
Most kits I've heard of (all by BB to my knowledge) have a bag or two of specialty grains that you steep at 150 for 20-30 min some have DME only most have both LME and DME. Someone above mentioned adding half the extract for the whole boil and the other half 10 min before flame out. Doing this will give you a lighter color (make sure you aren't applying heat when you add extract it can caramelize on the bottom). However my first couple I added it all at the beginning and they turned out fine! Other than that follow the kit instructions (except for 3 weeks in the bottles instead of 2) and you will have a good beer you can be proud of and it will taste even better because you made it!

Forgot to add they will all have separate hop packets one packet for each kind of hop measured for when it should be added...
 
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