Do I have stalled fermentation?

So I have two brews going right now. A Pale Ale and a Saison. The Pale Ale started at OG 1.054 on 6/12/11. It has been at 1.017 now for the last week (tested 6/27/11 and today). The Saison started at 1.053 on 6/18/11, and has been at 1.021 for the last week (tested 6/27/11 and today). These gravities are corrected for temperature.

I tested each of these when I brewed the wheat that's in my third fermenter. I tested again today, because I was transferring the Pale Ale to Secondary so I could dry hop it.

I am not as worried about the Pale ale, as it is lower and I am kegging it. But the Saison I have plans to bottle... so I want to avoid bottle bombs.

So, should I pitch some champagne yeast, or some new Saison yeasts?

I can post recipes if that will help, but I was expecting both to be under 1.015 by now and they aren't even moving at all.

Rouse the yeast and let it go back to work. Also, what temperature are you fermenting at? You may need to warm it up a tad.

1) How do I rouse the yeast? Do I just shake it? Or would that mix the krausen in?

2) Fermenting pale ale at 70 degrees (66 degrees ambient) and the saison at 78 degrees ambient.

Thanks for the help!

pointerDixie214 said:

1) How do I rouse the yeast? Do I just shake it? Or would that mix the krausen in?

2) Fermenting pale ale at 70 degrees (66 degrees ambient) and the saison at 78 degrees ambient.

Thanks for the help!

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To rouse the yeast, gently swirl the carboy around to get more yeast in suspension. As for temperature, sounds like you are in the ball park. May be a tad high on the saison, but that would be dependent upon what strain you are fermenting it with.

Gotcha. I am actually using one designed to be in upper 70's for the saison, so no worries there.

I will give 'em a little spin and see what happens.

So, at this point, you would not recommend re-pitching with either the yeast I used or a champagne yeast?

avidhomebrewer said:

To rouse the yeast, gently swirl the carboy around to get more yeast in suspension. As for temperature, sounds like you are in the ball park. May be a tad high on the saison, but that would be dependent upon what strain you are fermenting it with.

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78 isn't too high for a saison. Depending on the yeast you can raise it all the way to the mid 90s. Try to rouse it and raise the temp a bit more. If that doesn't work, good luck. I have never had any luck restarting a stuck fermentation, all you can do is prevent them to begin with.

pointerDixie214 said:

Gotcha. I am actually using one designed to be in upper 70's for the saison, so no worries there.

I will give 'em a little spin and see what happens.

So, at this point, you would not recommend re-pitching with either the yeast I used or a champagne yeast?

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I wouldn't pitch any champagne yeast to this brew.

rjwhite41 said:

I have never had any luck restarting a stuck fermentation, all you can do is prevent them to begin with.

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How does one do that?!?!?!

avidhomebrewer said:

I wouldn't pitch any champagne yeast to this brew.

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Should I repitch more Saison yeast?

No. Rouse the yeast and let it sit for about a week an go from there.

As far as preventing a stuck fermentation to begin with, I'm not quite sure how you would do that. I'd be interested in hearing how.

One of the strains of Saison yeast, I forget which one, is infamous for taking forever. I had one fermentation that took forever but finally finished at 1.008. Patience, warmth & rousing = good combo. FWIW I love saisons fermented at high temps...mine got into the mid 80's and was totally delicious.

Good to know. Will just let this one ride in primary for about 5 weeks total and hopefully it'll be there by then. It's probably staying about 80 in the fermenter I would imagine. That's what my samples' temps have been.

avidhomebrewer said:

As far as preventing a stuck fermentation to begin with, I'm not quite sure how you would do that. I'd be interested in hearing how.

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It's the same as preventing anything. You prevent the cause and then there is no effect. Stable proper temperatures, stable proper mash temperatures, proper pitching rates, etc. I've had one stuck fermentation, it was a Belgian Strong Dark Ale. When it happened I tried everything. I raised temperature and roused the yeast. I made another beer and pitched onto the cake. Finally, I pitched a champagne yeast starter at high krausen. Absolutely nothing worked. It's still sitting in my basement right now. Finished somewhere around 1.028 I think.

So what you do is review what might have gone wrong. For me the first thing was the yeast, it almost always is. I started with an expired pack of yeast and made my starter. I stepped up once, but since it was old I probably should have started smaller and done more steps. Essentially, I don't believe I pitched enough yeast. On brew day, I kept mash temps steady and low, 148F IIRC, but I got better than expected efficiency and overshot my gravity by .006 I think. Which means I needed even more yeast. During fermentation I had trouble keeping the temps up steadily, they would rise and fall 6 degrees or so per day. I also lost a ton of yeast out the blow off tube.

So I won't be doing this beer again until I can keep the temps more steady. I will build my starter to a bigger size, probably just pitch onto a portion of a cake. I will also use some fermcapS during fermentation to prevent a huge blow off. So if I can prevent the issues that may have caused it then I can prevent it from ever happening. You learn a lesson and you move on. Fermentations don't generally get stuck, it is not at all common for yeast to just stop doing their jobs. Somewhere in the process there was an area where you did not give them all the help they needed. Sometimes it can be fixed but not usually.

rjwhite41- Thanks for the advice. Methinks I will let it go for a while longer in case it is just going slow. I pitched a smack pack that I let swell up a lot, kept temps stable in my fermentation chamber (to within 2 degrees), and didn't have a blow off...

I am wondering if I should have used a starter?

Personally, I'd drink the 1.017. That isn't that high. I if you just let the 1.021 sit, it will still fall a few points. If it really isn't going any farther, drink that one too. Whats the worst case? It probably still tastes good

yup... try rousen the yeast back into suspension and raise the temp at least 5 degrees to hope for more attenuation.

My biggest concern is that I was going to bottle the one that's at 1.021 when finished. Don't want bottle bombs. Maybe I will just keg that one?

OK, we're back in business!

I went to the home brew store today, he said to rouse the yeast, warm it up a few degrees, and to add some yeast nutrient.

Did that this afternoon with no noticeable change. Sitting at my computer now I heard something in the other room. And it was..... AIR LOCK ACTIVITY! WOO-HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you to William at Hops and Tannins in Anthem, AZ for the rock solid advice.