Seattle Brewers! 08/02/2009

Sounds tasty! I can't wait to try it!

Nice choice on the 3711. After you brewed the Saison, and also the excellent bottle that Brewtopia bought I did a bunch of reading on Saisons. I think the 3711 is a newer strain that ferments quicker and doesn't require the insane temps in the upper 80's that the 3724 and 3726 does. Both of those are slow moody yeasts that like it hot.

10 days seems a bit quick to go to bottle with a Saison, but I really have no experience with one. Obviously clarity isn't an issue as cloudiness is inherent in the style. I guess the question would be is the yeast really finished with the ferment and cleanup. I have seen posts where people took the 3720 series yeast well under 1.010. Not sure if the 3711 has more headroom in it or not.

Either way I bet it will be fantastic, and some of that hot alcohol should fade as the yeast clean up some more.

Zen_Brew said:

Nice choice on the 3711. After you brewed the Saison, and also the excellent bottle that Brewtopia bought I did a bunch of reading on Saisons. I think the 3711 is a newer strain that ferments quicker and doesn't require the insane temps in the upper 80's that the 3724 and 3726 does. Both of those are slow moody yeasts that like it hot.

10 days seems a bit quick to go to bottle with a Saison, but I really have no experience with one. Obviously clarity isn't an issue as cloudiness is inherent in the style. I guess the question would be is the yeast really finished with the ferment and cleanup. I have seen posts where people took the 3720 series yeast well under 1.010. Not sure if the 3711 has more headroom in it or not.

Either way I bet it will be fantastic, and some of that hot alcohol should fade as the yeast clean up some more.

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I actually read the same thing an came to the conclusion to give the beer a bit more time in the primary. my grain bill was enormous, so 1.009 seems like a plausible fg, but I want to take another reading end of this week and double check that.

the recipe was a scaled up recipe from HBT member Kai who I've never interacted with, but had an attractive recipe with the same yeast.

his FG went to 1.002, by the same attenuation the seattle brewday saison could dry out to between 1.003 and 1.004.

I'm enjoying the process on this brew and don't want to rush it. So I'll be patient for bottling.

Yea, I'd hold off bottling and let it do it's thing in the primary a little while longer. The beer sounds great, looking forward to giving it a try.

brewday beer update

The beer has finished fermenting!

It has sat at 1.004 for the last three days. It has been racked to a glass carboy for some clearing and aging.

The samples of this beer have been a real treat, the esthers are still peachy, edging towards bubble gum but not getting to that flavor. The hot alcohol has toned down enormously in just one week, I think as the beer ages it will smooth out even more.

1.004 That puts you what around 10.2%? I'm glad the yeast took some of that hot alcohol out, I thought they might. It's a shame you didn't register for the HBT contest, it sounds like you've got a great Saison there. Congratulations on the sucessful Saison brew!!

And you couldn't have done it without us around, right?? Heh heh.

Sounds really good man! Can't wait to sample a bit!

i guess with that massive OG, its a Bier De Garde now!

Only bummer is the patience required with big brews...that and the fact that I forgot the whirlfloc. Once again, I blame you guys & your delicious beers!

So is she in bottles yet??

I'm feeling a call to the city, it's gotta be that Saison/Bier de Garde.

its in a carboy, I guess this one improves with age according to the 3711 thread

I certainly have enough bottles lying around. maybe I should do that tomorrow...

If you think you want to age it more than by all means. I'm just being impatient. Maybe 28 days old is a bit young, but it will age further in bottles.

Doesn't that style get higher carbonation and usually get put in the wired bottle? I think I remember the last time I loooked at carb tables that Saisons go upwards of 3 volumes co2, but I could be wrong.

Are you going to put it in the fancy bottles?

Nope, no corks.

But I have just decided to use no-shoulder bottles for a continental look. Time to source some more bottles. I think I'll try the whole foods on westlake. They serve Anchor steam at their cafe, and those bottles would be suitable...

As far as carbonation goes, I'm still unsure. I know the style gets pretty effervescent. It's very dry as is so I suppose that would highlight the dry-ness.

I clearly have some more reading to do on the packaging for this one.

I did a little reading and there is some variance in the opinion of carbonation level for a saison. Most sources list it on the higher side, but I have seen some other sources calling for a lower level. The BJCP guidelines says " High carbonation and extreme attenuation (85-95%) helps bring out the many flavors and to increase the perception of a dry finish." Of course that guideline also calls for a slightly lower alcohol level.

What kind of information have you been finding?

If you kegged it you could play up and down with the carbonation level and then move it into bottles when you have it tuned to the level you like. If you wanted to go straight into bottles based on what I have been reading you might consider someting in the 2.5 to 2.7 volume of co2 level. That would be near the middle end of some recommendations I've seen, and the higher end of others.

It's kinda fun learning Saison vicariously through someone else.
Cheers

Yeah I've been thinking a mid to high level as well. the BJCP mentions that bier de garde is med to highly carbonated also.

I feel confident that the big-ness if this particular brew will be okay with more bubbles.

That's right folks, the beer is in the bottle. Has been for about a week. Its bottle conditioning for carbonation. I tasted a small sample at bottling and it seems a tad oxidized. Will crack one tonight and report back.

so I popped open a bottle just now and the carbonation is clearly not complete. Anyhow- this beer is thusfar...

unpalatable. Sorry to disappoint fellas.

All I taste is oxidation and some cider notes. I'd be happy to let anyone else taste this beer, but it would be more of a diagnosis than a pleasurable pint. I'm pretty bummed out about it.

Man that is a bummer. It sounded so promising when you tasted in secondary a while back. I assume you have bottled all of it. I know you have been involved in some threads on this style of beer, so I'm sure you are up to speed with the aging techniques people are using on this style, but I am curious why the long stay in secondary? I know you were considering going to bottle in Aug, then something changed your mind and you waited until now. It's sad to think that monster has gone south on you.

Is there anything that can be done to resurrect it? Maybe a small yeast infusion or something like that. 2 -1/2 months is quite a while in secondary, maybe the yeasties all passed away or something.
Just drinking out loud.

Sounds like we need a mulligan brew!

schielke said:

Sounds like we need a mulligan brew!

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Brilliant!

Well I'm all kinds of down for that!

I'd still like to see if we can't make something outta that monster Saison. Of course I haven't tasted it, but maybe it can be blended into a lighter saison or something like that.

I read through this whole thread and thought how fun this seemed to be. I live in North Seattle and am just starting to collect equipment for All Grain. I have about 8 extracts and 5 months under my belt. Are you guys doing this again? I would love to watch someone do All Grain and meet some other local brewers. Thought about joining a homebrew club, but I like casual better. Less structure and time commitment.