Proofing Yeast as a Starter

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PAbrewer07

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I was looking through the various threads on making starters and was wondering if anyone has ever tried proofing dry yeast as a starter before pitching. I read that DME can be used in place of brewer’s sugar in the wort as well as for priming.

Has anyone ever first boiled a cup of water, placed the water in a sterile container, e. g., a pyrex measuring cup, let the temp drop to approximately 80 degrees F and then added a teaspoon of brewers sugar and dry yeast as a starter? If so were the results favorable?
 
PAbrewer07 said:
Has anyone ever first boiled a cup of water, placed the water in a sterile container, e. g., a pyrex measuring cup, let the temp drop to approximately 80 degrees F and then added a teaspoon of brewers sugar and dry yeast as a starter? If so were the results favorable?
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Yes, but I used a teaspoon of honey and dry yeast as a starter. I also used honey in the primary.

Results were beer that is better than commercial, with more punch.
 
There is no real need to make a starter with dry yeast. You can proof it in some warm sanitized water on brew day and the packets come with plenty of yeast cells for your typical brew.

Liquid yeast starters are used to increase cell count prior to pitching since the vials and smack packs do not really come with enough (even though they are marketed as pitchable). I'm not sure I see the benefit in going through the extra work of making a starter when it is not required.
 
agreed, no reason to make a starter for dry yeast. proofing it will tell you if the yeast is still viable or not, which is only needed if the yeast is past its 'use by' date, or if it was stored in less than ideal conditions (i.e. way too warm).

liquid yeast starters do two things: increase yeast cell count, and awaken the yeast so that you know there's still something viable in the tube/smack pack.
 
You can proof the dry yeast if you want but I see no real advantage. If you suspect the yeast is bad, it is cheap enough to toss and buy more. You really don't want to re-hydrate and proof the yeast hours in advance of pitching (I think 15 minutes is ideal) so if you add sugar to proof and nothing happens then you still have you wort without yeast.
 
Beerrific said:
You can proof the dry yeast if you want but I see no real advantage. If you suspect the yeast is bad, it is cheap enough to toss and buy more. You really don't want to re-hydrate and proof the yeast hours in advance of pitching (I think 15 minutes is ideal) so if you add sugar to proof and nothing happens then you still have you wort without yeast.
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+1 to what Beerific said. Proof/rehydrate about 15 minutes prior to pitching for optimal results. Although I do think rehydrating is a good idea regardless.

Starters with dry yeasts are not only unnecessary, they can actually reduce your yeast viability unless you are really certain of what you are doing. Dry yeast manufacturers dry and package the yeast while they are at their peak of energy stores. Often making a starter with them will actually reduce these energy stores, making them less viable once pitched.
 
Do not add sugar or honey to the solution for rehydrating your yeast. The dried yeast have no ability to control what crosses their membranes initially and the sugar or wort will kill some and wound others. Using warm water per the directions for your yeast strain will result in the maximum number of happy viable yeast.
 
FlyGuy said:
Although I do think rehydrating is a good idea regardless.

Starters with dry yeasts are not only unnecessary,
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OK then Please explain the difference between them? Would not rehydrating be like giving it a start...or a head start...or something like that?:confused:

Cheers:mug:
 
Mr Nick said:
OK then Please explain the difference between them? Would not rehydrating be like giving it a start...or a head start...or something like that?:confused:

Cheers:mug:
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Basically, you rehydrate the yeast in the package and pitch it immediately while it is at its peak of energy reserves.

With a starter, if you don't get it just right (lots of things to go wrong), you can actually REDUCE the energy reserves of the yeast.

The yeast manufacturer has a lab with lots of equipment to optimize yeast quality at packaging. It is hard for a homebrewer to replicate this level of success with the yeast.
 
Rehydrating the yeast allows the yeast cells to draw enough water across the cell membranes to restart their metabolism. Proofing is not necessary and is not recommended because it can actually begin to expend some of the yeasts' reserves and make the yeast less adaptable to the wort. See how to brew by John Palmer for the chemistry behind this.
 
Think I'll just pitch the dry yeast into the wort at the recommended temperature and save creating a starter for liquid yeast.

Thanks for all your comments!
 
I was advised by someone on this forum to purchase a new packet of yeast for the batch that is presently in my secondary. I thought Proofing the yeast was just a means of determing if that was necessary?

Proofing Yeast
A step-by-step tutorial for making sure yeast is still "alive" and ready for fermentation.


If you are a seasoned brewer you know that all yeast needs to multiply and grow in a sympathetic environment. The correct environment includes moisture, food (in the form of sugar or starch) and a warm, nurturing temperature. However, if the yeast you have is dead, no amount of environment will help it become a productive fermenting agent. Whenever you intend to brew with yeast, it is a good idea to test to make sure the yeast is alive. The act of testing to see if yeast is alive is called proofing.

1. We used 1/2 cup water, 1 tablespoon white sugar, and one package of yeast for this test. This test is effective for a dry active yeast.

2. Heat the water to approximately 100 degrees F (40 degrees C).

3. In a nutshell, yeast eats various sugars and excretes alcohol and carbon dioxide. Whisk the sugar into the water to help it to dissolve quickly.

4. Once the sugar has been evenly distributed throughout the water, add the yeast.

5. Whisk the yeast into the warm sugar water and allow it to dissolve. Let the water cool down to the standard 70 to 85 degrees F (20 to 30 degrees C). Whisking will cause the yeast organisms to be suspended evenly throughout the water, which will give an even proof throughout.

6. After 5 or 10 minutes, the yeast should begin to form a creamy foam on the surface of the water. If there is no foam in the bowl, the yeast is dead and you should start over with a new packet of yeast.
 
Yes, just like when you make bread you can proof the yeast. It is not necessary as a rule, because with dry yeast you have plenty of yeast. I've never once had a "dead" package of dry yeast. For liquid yeast, a starter is always a good idea.

You don't want to give sugar to your yeast, since you want them to "grow up" to utilize maltose in your beer.
 
I've never proofed dried yeast for brewing. I do proof bread yeast, but you cannot compare the two processes. I have made starters from older packets, but most of the time I re-hydrate in straight water and pitch.

From the Danstar FAQ:

"Foam or no foam is not an indication of vitality"
 
Mr Nick said:
I was advised by someone on this forum to purchase a new packet of yeast for the batch that is presently in my secondary. I thought Proofing the yeast was just a means of determing if that was necessary?

Proofing Yeast
A step-by-step tutorial for making sure yeast is still "alive" and ready for fermentation.


If you are a seasoned brewer you know that all yeast needs to multiply and grow in a sympathetic environment. The correct environment includes moisture, food (in the form of sugar or starch) and a warm, nurturing temperature. However, if the yeast you have is dead, no amount of environment will help it become a productive fermenting agent. Whenever you intend to brew with yeast, it is a good idea to test to make sure the yeast is alive. The act of testing to see if yeast is alive is called proofing.

1. We used 1/2 cup water, 1 tablespoon white sugar, and one package of yeast for this test. This test is effective for a dry active yeast.

2. Heat the water to approximately 100 degrees F (40 degrees C).

3. In a nutshell, yeast eats various sugars and excretes alcohol and carbon dioxide. Whisk the sugar into the water to help it to dissolve quickly.

4. Once the sugar has been evenly distributed throughout the water, add the yeast.

5. Whisk the yeast into the warm sugar water and allow it to dissolve. Let the water cool down to the standard 70 to 85 degrees F (20 to 30 degrees C). Whisking will cause the yeast organisms to be suspended evenly throughout the water, which will give an even proof throughout.

6. After 5 or 10 minutes, the yeast should begin to form a creamy foam on the surface of the water. If there is no foam in the bowl, the yeast is dead and you should start over with a new packet of yeast.
Click to expand...

Where did you find this? It appears to be ripped straight from this bread baking info with a bit of word substitution/trickery:

http://open-site.org/Home/Cooking/Recipes/Breads/
 
I need to understand how things work...That is just the kind of person that I am.
I appreciate all of the advice that you all have given here. But quite frankly I am confused.
I was told in this thread to purchase some fresh yeast.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=37463&page=2
I have also read (on this forum) that it is important to get the yeast doing it's thing as quickly as possible.

If one adds some kind of sugar to the wort what could be wrong with adding a small amount to some water (to get it working) prior to pitching?

Seems logical to me that pitching yeast that already has started to multiply would give a person a quicker start in the primary bucket?
 
The type of sugar actually matters. In the presence of simple sugars, yeast will often bypass their adaptive (growth) phase and go straight into fermentation. They won't do this in wort because it is predominantly maltose sugar.

The concept of proofing dry yeast might be a hold-over from the days when dry yeasts were low quality and less reliable. These days, most manufacturers produce exceptionally high quality yeast, and I think people are advising that it is better to just assume it is viable (unless you have reason to think otherwise), and skip the proofing step. If still want to do one, I suggest that you rehydrate for 10 mins first, then add a teaspoon of malt extract or wort.

Just remember that for modern dry yeast, they are most viable right after rehydration, so you want to pitch them very soon after that.
 

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