NHC 2012 First Round Scoresheets

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HYGBrewin

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This is my first year entering the NHC competition and I just received my score sheets back from Philadelphia. My pumpkin beer in the herb spice category scored a 41 and advanced to mini bod, my ipa scored 35 and also advanced to mini bos. Both sheets do not say whether the beer actually placed in the top 3. Is that done purposefully so you don't find put before all results are released, or did they simply not place?
 
This is my first year entering the NHC competition and I just received my score sheets back from Philadelphia. My pumpkin beer in the herb spice category scored a 41 and advanced to mini bod, my ipa scored 35 and also advanced to mini bos. Both sheets do not say whether the beer actually placed in the top 3. Is that done purposefully so you don't find put before all results are released, or did they simply not place?

great question, wondering the same thing... ;) My "Ode to a Reese's Cup" got a 38 and a "advanced to a mini BOS".
 
I don't have a ton of comp experience and I can't tell you for sure on this one but for the last competition I entered my imperial black ipa scored a 38 and made it to a "mini BOS" but didn't place in the category (23). So that can definitely happen.
 
You should have received this form: Competition Cover Sheet. Generally if you placed it will have a number (1,2 or 3) in the "Place Awarded" box. Cheers!!!

Agreed. I entered an IIPA into NHC-Philly this year that advanced to a mini-BOS. There is no number in the blank "Place Awarded" box below this. I am certain this means that it did not place.
 
Wow, you guys are getting your scores back already? i remember last year it was almost may before i got mine back.
 
Agreed. I entered an IIPA into NHC-Philly this year that advanced to a mini-BOS. There is no number in the blank "Place Awarded" box below this. I am certain this means that it did not place.

there was some speculation that since the other sites hadn't completed their judging yet, that the official results were being held until then? :shrug:
 
Agreed. I entered an IIPA into NHC-Philly this year that advanced to a mini-BOS. There is no number in the blank "Place Awarded" box below this. I am certain this means that it did not place.

You may get scoresheets back, but they withhold the actual placements until all judging centers are done (for sake of fairness). Places like Portland have another 2 weeks before judging begins.
 
Actually that's not true at all. The scoresheets do have placement listed. They just will not publish the full list on the website until everyone has submitted the data up to the mother ship.

Whales Club Project Framboise took a 1st in cat 17 in Philly. Oh yeah, see you in Seattle.
 
Actually that's not true at all. The scoresheets do have placement listed. They just will not publish the full list on the website until everyone has submitted the data up to the mother ship.

Whales Club Project Framboise took a 1st in cat 17 in Philly. Oh yeah, see you in Seattle.

Very interesting. Last year I had three beers go to the second round. None of them had any indication on the initial scoresheets that they were going to the second round. Of course, this was a different judging center than Philly. Perhaps it is a center-by-center decision. Interesting post from Janis Gross on the AHA forum:

Hi everyone,

In order to be fair to all entrants in the competition, the results for each and all of the 11 competitions will not be posted on the web until all 11 competitions results are ready to be posted simultaneously. At the individual First Round competitions the organizers have the option to read the winners list after the judging is completed. The organizers also send out the score sheets in a timely manner after each competition.

It is true that the entrants in the first competition may have an advantage over those in later competitions, but everyone has the opportunity to re-brew their beers at any time, including ahead of the results being posted on the web. If your beer qualifies for the Final Round, then you are ready. If not, then you have another 5 gallon batch of a beer that you love.

Good luck in the competition!

Cheers,
Janis
 
She actually doesn't explicitly say anything about placement indications on the score sheets but it seems that the option of the results being "read" at after the judging would fall into the same category as sending placement with the score sheets. It may have just been a fluke. The only thing that IS clear is that results won't be on the web in dribs and drabs.
 
She actually doesn't explicitly say anything about placement indications on the score sheets but it seems that the option of the results being "read" at after the judging would fall into the same category as sending placement with the score sheets. It may have just been a fluke. The only thing that IS clear is that results won't be on the web in dribs and drabs.

And Kudos to Philly BTW. Last year was such a cluster on the East Coast. Given how efficient they have been, including the emails they sent off the day after tasting, I can't imagine that they would indicate some beers that placed and not others.

And, congrats Bobby_M...
 
Dang, I submitted a Kolsch to the Philly comp and got a 40.5...my wife says she got the scoresheet and told me it didnt advance. Light Hybrid must have been cut throat! lol
 
My IIPA scored a 42 at NHC-Philly and it doesn't have anything filled in the Mini BOS check box, nor does it say that it placed.
 
My IIPA scored a 42 at NHC-Philly and it doesn't have anything filled in the Mini BOS check box, nor does it say that it placed.

The NHC is generally for the best of the best (who else is going to pay $10-15 a beer???) so the competition is much stiffer. Don't feel bad about not placing! Your beer got a 42, that's usually praise enough for me. :mug:

At any rate, I sent mine to Chicago, so I imagine it'll be a while before I see mine. Can't wait for Seattle!
 
I can't wait to get the Pittsburgh score sheet back on my Belgian Dubbel that has developed a pedio viscosity since sending the bottles. The damn thing pours semi-translucent motor oil. It would have done damn well if it weren't for me somehow carelessly contaminating it. There's a first time for everything and my first contamination in over three years was sent in to the National Homebrew Competition. Dumb f-ing luck. I can't wait to see what the judges say, mostly wondering if they will mention pedio contamination. I sure hope they can because it has the slight lactic character too.
 
It may have just been a fluke. The only thing that IS clear is that results won't be on the web in dribs and drabs.

So the question is; if you had entries that made it to a mini-BOS and didn't have a place listed, do you drink the bottles that you set aside for the second round or save them in case what Bobby posted was a "fluke?"
 
So the question is; if you had entries that made it to a mini-BOS and didn't have a place listed, do you drink the bottles that you set aside for the second round or save them in case what Bobby posted was a "fluke?"

Did anyone other than Bobby's Club Framboise (Go WHALES!) have a place written on their front page?

We don't know exactly how many entries per category were entered.

What rules were used to decide how many entries per judging table? I can't see judging more than a dozen at a clip as being efficient. Actually, I can't see more than half that as being efficient, but that's probably not realistic to break things up to 5 or 6 beers and then do mini BOS's for everything.

I can see Cat 14 (IPA/IIPAs) having 20-30 entries (Stouts is probably a large cat too). So if there were 30 entries, what is fair? Break it up into at least 3 groups and then do mini BOS rounds. Just because a mini BOS was run, doesn't mean someone with a higher score had to go through the BOS.

I scored a 42 for my IIPA. That's possibly good enough for a placing. If there are other entries in the upper 30s within a few points of each other, they could've done a mini BOS for the remaining entries. I don't think there really is a concrete way that judges have to make their final decisions.

That is my guess (hope) for what happened. There was someone in my category who scored in the upper 30s that had mini BOS checked, but no placing. I didn't have mini BOS checked.
 
Mine is being judged this weekend in Regina.

Congrats on the great scores guys.

Mine too. Judging started last night and continues through Saturday. 535 entries from what I heard. How many did you send? Man these guys scoring 40+ and not getting a sniff of the second round is tough.
 
Did anyone other than Bobby's Club Framboise (Go WHALES!) have a place written on their front page?

We don't know exactly how many entries per category were entered.

What rules were used to decide how many entries per judging table? I can't see judging more than a dozen at a clip as being efficient. Actually, I can't see more than half that as being efficient, but that's probably not realistic to break things up to 5 or 6 beers and then do mini BOS's for everything.

I can see Cat 14 (IPA/IIPAs) having 20-30 entries (Stouts is probably a large cat too). So if there were 30 entries, what is fair? Break it up into at least 3 groups and then do mini BOS rounds. Just because a mini BOS was run, doesn't mean someone with a higher score had to go through the BOS.

I scored a 42 for my IIPA. That's possibly good enough for a placing. If there are other entries in the upper 30s within a few points of each other, they could've done a mini BOS for the remaining entries. I don't think there really is a concrete way that judges have to make their final decisions.

That is my guess (hope) for what happened. There was someone in my category who scored in the upper 30s that had mini BOS checked, but no placing. I didn't have mini BOS checked.

That was me who scored in the upper 30's and went to mini-BOS.

janzik, I don't think you have a good understanding of how the competitions are run. It is not necessarily the highest scoring beers that place. Especially in large categories.

I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that the scores become irrelevant for the mini-BOS. In large categories, the different flights could be completed by different judges or judges that are unknowingly decreasing or increasing their overall scores as the flights proceed. The mini-BOS is used to try to account for differences in scores between flights.

So it is quite possible that the beers that placed are not the highest scoring beers overall. I have personally won in other competitions over beers with higher scores from different flights.

Also, I would bet that there were probably 50+ entries in categories like IPA, american ale or stout. They are very popular categories and very often have mini-BOS in substantially smaller competitions.
 
That was me who scored in the upper 30's and went to mini-BOS.

janzik, I don't think you have a good understanding of how the competitions are run. It is not necessarily the highest scoring beers that place. Especially in large categories.

I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that the scores become irrelevant for the mini-BOS. In large categories, the different flights could be completed by different judges or judges that are unknowingly decreasing or increasing their overall scores as the flights proceed. The mini-BOS is used to try to account for differences in scores between flights.

So it is quite possible that the beers that placed are not the highest scoring beers overall. I have personally won in other competitions over beers with higher scores from different flights.

That's the thing. I don't think there are set rules. Maybe there are, but it isn't made clear if it is set at the AHA level or the host decides how it goes down. (EDIT)The PDF says the judges may send around 3 entries they thought were the best. Doesn't say scored the highest. In theory, in the first round, the best ones should be the ones that scored the highest, but it's up to the judges how many get submitted to the mini BOS.(/EDIT)I understand that all bets are off when it goes to the mini BOS. I understand the need for the mini BOS due to variances of score range (one table scoring more generously than another).

What is unclear is if the front pages of the score sheets out of Philly were accurate/purposely incomplete. Maybe folks placed but weren't universally notified.

Did all the top scores from each table go to a mini BOS? Were there 2 or 3 beers that scored higher than a 42 at my table? (probable with that many entries)

If table 1 had scores of 48, 48, 47, my 42 and your table had 38, (your 37.5 that went to mini BOS , 36, etc. What the is the rule for how many go on to a mini BOS? What if my table was my 42 and a bunch of 30s, and your table's scores were the same. Does mine need to compete in a mini BOS, or would/should it have been declared 1st place and then the highest 30s from my table and the highest 30s from your table compete for 2nd and 3rd. This gets even crazier if there were more than 2 tables (could be up to 4 or 5 if there were 40-50 Cat 14's).
 
I think withholding the final score on the front coversheet would be highly irregular. Overall the judging practices are outlined by the BJCP...what is done with the results once determined, is up to the AHA. I not sure the BJCP would say not to exclude the score on the cover, I have a feeling they would discourage it. Perhaps a "Did not place" box would be helpful especially if it is blank and you got a 40 :(.

If they wanted to make sure everyone got their results at the same time, they should have all the scoresheets sent to a central location, scanned and released at the same time. (Or, perhaps all mailed at the same time, which would be less work). I just don't think Janis has the resources to make all this happen. Philly seems to have busted their asses to get it done. With Easter and the plethora of other spring time beer-related events, it is going to take other regions a little bit longer.

In general, if you have 2 sets of judges judging, then up to 3 could be sent per judges set. If you have more, it is a judgement call by the judges....sending 3 is probably useless unless you think you have the 3 best. Sending 2 is more acceptable. So, if you have 50something entries in America Ale for example, 2 per judge puts 10 beers at the mini-BOS....that is a lot. All of this is at the discretion of organizer. So, if you advanced to the mini-BOS in one of those larger categories (American ale, stout, IPA), you were probably the best or second best of that judging pair....congrats! Next time, enter a smaller competition :D.
 
Agreed.

As far as the 1st round NHC results... I would encourage anyone who scored well to keep any saved bottles in the unlikely event that the beer may have been inadvertently NOT marked as having placed. But I think that would be pretty unlikely occurrence. If you are really concerned, why not email the organizer?
 
As far as the 1st round NHC results... I would encourage anyone who scored well to keep any saved bottles

Or re-brew....

Still time for that for most styles.

I'm just shocked ya'll are seeing score sheets already. San Diego hasn't even started judging yet.
 
I'm just shocked ya'll are seeing score sheets already.
The guy's at Keystone Homebrew did a great job with the Philly contest!

(except for the part where the didn't advance my beer)

Judged the 750 beers on Friday and Saturday and had score sheets in the mail the first part of the following week.
 
I drank mine.

I certainly wouldn't do that yet. My case last year:

In 2011 I entered 12 beers to the Seattle judging center. When I got the scoresheets back 11 had empty 'place awarded boxes'. 1 beer had a '3' in the place awarded box on the coversheet.

After a week or two when I actually got my placements from the AHA, 3 out of the 12 received a placement to go to the second round. The ironic part is that the beer that had a '3' in the place awarded box on the coversheet ended up not placing. This was telling enough for me to not trust the cover sheets.
 
REGARDING PLACE INDICATORS ON SCORE SHEETS (Sorry if that looks all shout-y and authoritarian, just wanted to make sure everyone saw it!):

Our judges were told to go ahead and put a place indicator on the cover sheet if that beer advanced in their flight (though even some of them were unaware that this was OK), and MOST did. I say most, because there were some flights where this didn't get done, and I take full responsibility for it. In their zeal to get scoresheets stapled, sorted, and stuffed (which I told them was their primary goal at the end of the day, so that attendees could pick them up then) or because they were concerned that sheets would get lost in the confusion, some stewards removed the scoresheets from the table before mini-BOS had completed, and those sheets MAY not have been noted as finishing in an advancing position.

Most, though, did indicate whether a beer was advancing - and next year they all will (it's at the top of my after-action report). To be on the safe side, hang onto a little bit of any beer that scored over 30 (the minimum to advance) - you can drink them in commiseration if there's no happy surprises on 4 May.

Thanks, all, and best of luck.

Prost,
Josh Weikert
Stoney Creek Homebrewers
Organizer - NHC 1st Round (Philadelphia)
 
I wonder how Pittsburgh judging went this weekend. I would be lying if I didn't say that I'm slightly anxious to see how I did on my saison. Plus I want to see what they say about my pedio rope in the dubbel for purely entertainment purposes. It hurt me to find out I had sent a beer that developed the rope and almost thought to contact the event organizer to have them pull the beer. I've helped judge a comp in the past and it seemed people intentionally sent bad beer to find out what was the matter with it, which is weird to me. So I'm actually sort of embarrassed because I'm THAT guy this time.
 
I wonder how Pittsburgh judging went this weekend. I would be lying if I didn't say that I'm slightly anxious to see how I did on my saison. Plus I want to see what they say about my pedio rope in the dubbel for purely entertainment purposes. It hurt me to find out I had sent a beer that developed the rope and almost thought to contact the event organizer to have them pull the beer. I've helped judge a comp in the past and it seemed people intentionally sent bad beer to find out what was the matter with it, which is weird to me. So I'm actually sort of embarrassed because I'm THAT guy this time.

Good luck! I'm hoping we get our sheets from Pittsburgh quickly. I don't mind the wait before judging, but once the scores exist I want to know what they are. I have decent confidence with the beers I sent, but there is always a hit or miss nature to competitions, especially when you enter sour beers in every category that allows them…
 
I received mine via email from San Diego today.

My Scottish 80 was noted on the cover sheet as 2nd place and checked "advanced to mini BOS".

Scored 39.
 

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