What to use for control box on E-brewery build

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lspr_mtu

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What is everyone using for their control box/enclosure on their electric builds? I've found a few online that are designed for this purpose (sealed, sub panels, ventilation, etc.) but they are all buku bucks.

Ideally, I'd like the following:
- HWD: 16"x20"x6" (or ballpark)
- a single screw cover or door/hinge cover
- sealed

I asked Auberin's (where I bought most of the components) if they recommended any good sources, but they were no help at all.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
 
I used a 12x12x6 box from home depot. It takes some planning, but it wasn't too hard to get everything in there. The Pol did his in 8x8x6-Screw that-with my mediocre wiring skills it would look like crap inside.
 
If you have a local alarm installer - ask them if they've got any old panels you can take off their hands.

I've got about 4 old panels like that anyone can have if they want to pick them up in Southeastern PA. Single side hinge, about 20 x 18 x 6 " deep. Solid black with some painted lettering on the outside.
 
For our purposes and the environments they are located in they really should be Nema 4x rated enclosures. I am guilty of this myself, my control panel is not but the enclosure holding the rest of the hardware is. Ill be fixing this one day soon.

Search ebay for nema 4x. You'll have plenty to choose from.
 
My ammo box works great, waterproof, sturdy.

P5070094-400.jpg
 
The box I listed from lowes is Nema type 6P and type 4/4 rating. If you use liquid tight connections to the box you should be pretty safe.
 
I used a 12x12x6 box from home depot. It takes some planning, but it wasn't too hard to get everything in there. The Pol did his in 8x8x6-Screw that-with my mediocre wiring skills it would look like crap inside.

Do you happen to have any pics of how your fit everything in?
 
DSCF0296.jpg


This is the finished product on a pile of laundry before I installed it on the rig.

MasterControlPanelDiagram.jpg


This is a rough diagram. I changed it slightly in the final version. The cut off switch is a leviton 30 amp 240V dual pole cut off switch. You can't cut the power with a cheap switch which I originally wanted to do. If you are serious about doing this, consult an electrician, electricity is dangerous. Do not use this diagram as I did have to alter it significantly, it should just be used to see that there is enough room in a 12x12x6 box. By the way, since someone will ask, the box on the right of the control panel is a spa breaker box with a 30 amp circut breaker.

Finished (kinda):

DSCF1013.jpg
 
It should also be noted that you need to use separate 110/120v and 220/240v. The PID controllers don't like high voltage. Again, rough diagram made with low tech program. Know your stuff and have someone double check your work before you run it.
 
It should also be noted that you need to use separate 110/120v and 220/240v. The PID controllers don't like high voltage. Again, rough diagram made with low tech program. Know your stuff and have someone double check your work before you run it.

Auberin's lists the supply voltage as 85~264VAC/50~60Hz. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "don't like high voltage"?
 
If you can run something on lower voltage why wouldn't you? On top of that how would you regulate down the amount of power going into the tiny PID controller. I don't claim to be an electrician, but there is a reason there are adapters for most small electrical devices to regulate the power down into your device-i.e. a cell phone charger. If you want to run your controller at 220-240v when it can easily be run on 110-120v for the cost of an extension cord, go ahead. I would be interested on how long it would last.
 
The Auber PIDs are made to run normally on 240VAC, they will last as long as they will on 120VAC.

If your panel has 240VAC coming in, it is easy to split off 120VAC for 120VAC devices though, and it is cleaner than running a 240VAC cord and a 120VAC cord to the rig. Running 2 power cords is silly if you have 240VAC to the panel anyway, you already have 120VAC there, make use of it, dont run 2 cords.

My current panel is 8x8, the new build will be much larger, 8x8 is very small when you throw a, distribution block, PID, SSR, heatsink, switches and three outlets on it!
 
You can also get a 12v DC PID if you are looking for low voltage. Auber has one that I purchased.

I am running seperate cords on my rig because I do not want to put a 50amp circuit in my panel. I already have 20a circuit in the garage. So I just need to add a 30a for my 240. Plus I don't have to deal with running a nuetral for the 240v either.
 
You can also get a 12v DC PID if you are looking for low voltage. Auber has one that I purchased.

I am running seperate cords on my rig because I do not want to put a 50amp circuit in my panel. I already have 20a circuit in the garage. So I just need to add a 30a for my 240. Plus I don't have to deal with running a nuetral for the 240v either.

Without a nuetral, do you gave GFCI protection on your 240?
 
Just scored a 16"x14"x6" from eBay for $70 including shipping. I think that should work - it's Nema 4X, rated for outdoor. I am planning to tap a 120V leg off the 240V for pump and aux power.

Chosenwon, I could just as easily use that for the PID too, but I don't see a good reason to go one way over the other. I was only wondering if you specifically knew of a fault in the PID design that would prevent 240V operation. And FYI, cell phone chargers use a "wall wort" because they actually need DC power, not AC power. The wall wort is just a transformer/rectifier. Not sure of the internals of a PID, but it sounds like that actually can operate on 240V.

Regarding a 240V GFCI - correct me if I'm wrong, but a straight-up 240V GFCI breaker will adequately protect 240V circuits, no neutral line needed. However, if you want to use the 240V supply to power 120V circuits (using a neutral tap), that's when you need the GFCI with the neutral line, otherwise called a 120/240V GFCI. This is what I plan to use.

Overall, I'll have 2 PIDs, 2 SSRs/heat sinks, 2 240V (3-wire) outlets, 2 120V outlets, 2 120V switches, some terminal/fuse blocks, a 240V/50A GFCI breaker/panel... that's about it from the top of my head.

I'd like to fuse the individual components as much as possible, internal to the box. I'm looking for a decent, compact fuse block that I could use as a terminal block and fuse holder combined, preferably to hold standard glass tube fuses. For the big breaker, I may just stick a spa pack on the back of the box, unless I can think of a neat and subtle way to mount a stand-alone breaker internal to the box. I don't plan on having square-D rails in the box, or anything crazy like that.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I'm trying to document the process fairly well as I go along, so that when I finish I'll have another successful project to post up here for other's to use for ideas and to spur dialogue. It's been fun so far!
 
I could have been easily mistaken. All of the diagrams I had seen before building my set up used 120 to power up the PID. I thought this was neccessary so I replicated it. My set up works for me, especially because I use a 30 amp circut and pretty much max it out with my E-Kettle. I am glad a used a separate 120 for the PID (which hardly consumes any power) mainly because I use a heat stick to bump up mash temps. I have replaced my MLT with a round 10 gal beverage cooler, but will likely go back to the keg once I have a RIMS recirculation system set up.

Back on topic, it seems like you are handling this build well and doing your homework so your build should go well.
 
For our purposes and the environments they are located in they really should be Nema 4x rated enclosures. I am guilty of this myself, my control panel is not but the enclosure holding the rest of the hardware is. Ill be fixing this one day soon.

Search ebay for nema 4x. You'll have plenty to choose from.

Just NEMA 4 is necessary...4X is actually NEMA 4 but corrosion resistant. Honestly, neither are "necessary" in my mind but there are some precautions that should be taken when there is water present around the electrical box. I dont plan on using a NEMA4 rated panel but I know my panel will be mounted out of the "splash zone" for a lack of a better term.

Still...the precaution does need to be taken because the indoor boxes most people are using are definitely NOT water tight and liquid tight connections will help, but if the box isnt water tight you can get yourself into trouble!
 
Just NEMA 4 is necessary...4X is actually NEMA 4 but corrosion resistant. Honestly, neither are "necessary" in my mind but there are some precautions that should be taken when there is water present around the electrical box. I dont plan on using a NEMA4 rated panel but I know my panel will be mounted out of the "splash zone" for a lack of a better term.

Still...the precaution does need to be taken because the indoor boxes most people are using are definitely NOT water tight and liquid tight connections will help, but if the box isnt water tight you can get yourself into trouble!

Those are good points. Although I'll try to keep it watertight where I can, there are inevitably going to be some holes. By virtue of the fact that I am installing RDT sensor connectors and 120V outlets on the exterior of the panel, I know I won't be absolutely waterproof. That said, the plan is to disconnect the brewing vessels and remove them from the stand for cleanup - no CIP for me. Also, the boil kettle will be positioned furthest away from the control box, so boilovers should be safely far enough away from exposted electronics. The "water resistent" aspect of the enclosure is purely for protection from accidents - definitely not intended to withstand a hose down.
 
Those are good points. Although I'll try to keep it watertight where I can, there are inevitably going to be some holes. By virtue of the fact that I am installing RDT sensor connectors and 120V outlets on the exterior of the panel, I know I won't be absolutely waterproof. That said, the plan is to disconnect the brewing vessels and remove them from the stand for cleanup - no CIP for me. Also, the boil kettle will be positioned furthest away from the control box, so boilovers should be safely far enough away from exposted electronics. The "water resistent" aspect of the enclosure is purely for protection from accidents - definitely not intended to withstand a hose down.

And that's understandable. That's why I am not worrying about it. I think of when I have ever spilled and in about 3 years of brewing I have had 1 boil over and other than than some spills here and there. Nothing that would even permeate a normal (ie. non NEMA4 box) but I am the only one that knows that...who knows (other than yourself) how much you spray water around?! Better to be safe then sorry - not only with the enclosures but also with the advise.

Cheers!
 
Just NEMA 4 is necessary...4X is actually NEMA 4 but corrosion resistant. Honestly, neither are "necessary" in my mind but there are some precautions that should be taken when there is water present around the electrical box. I dont plan on using a NEMA4 rated panel but I know my panel will be mounted out of the "splash zone" for a lack of a better term.

Still...the precaution does need to be taken because the indoor boxes most people are using are definitely NOT water tight and liquid tight connections will help, but if the box isnt water tight you can get yourself into trouble!

You're right about the Nema 4. I wrote 4x out of habit because thats all we quote here at work, lots of hydrogen sulfide. My panel is mounted underneath the brewery and thats why I chose a Nema 4.
 
In addition to a watertight panel, Fermcap/Foam Control are cheap insurance against burns and electrocution, considering boilovers are the #1 type of spill. I also like to check my connections before starting pumps and hosewater, FWIW.....
 
I've become an avid user of fermcap as well. Not so much for fermentation, but for the boils. Especially for preparing starters. I boil the starter wort right in my Erlenmeyer, with the shape of an Erlenmeyer, boilover is all but guaranteed without fermcap. Great stuff.
 
If you want forced air within a control box like this how is it done? Do you need to have some kind of liquid trap that stop liquid from splashing through vent holes?

Or can you have no venting with a box in a wet condition?
 
Well, if you can find a protected vent that is nema 4 rated then yes. Nema 4, in regards to water, means that it will resist intrusion from a 100gpm stream coming from a one inch nozzle (Fire hose). Nema 3 will protect the enclosure from falling water and dirt, rain basically. You need something between the two.

To maintain a the 4 rating we usually use a small HVAC system, not practical for our use. Maybe an externally mounted peltier/heatsink and fan may work with some creative shielding. It will certainly limit your exposure to the large AC service.
 
Check, not interested :D haha.

That is some serious overkill IMO for what I am doing. For those interested in going all out and with a ton of cash. NEMA 4x coolers can be found on eBay for about $300 shipped.

I'll jest keep risking my life with a piece of foam over vent holes I guess ;)
 
First and foremost... I am not an expert on this subject.

But, my thoughts are that if you have a box that will allow moisture in, like around a switch or other device (maybe a fan), then you are better off with some kind of weep hole in the bottom of the box. In other words... if it is possible for water to get in, better to make a way for it to get out safely than have your box fill up with water. I would also try to protect the weep hole from allowing water to enter.

I'd like to hear an experts opinion.

Ed
 
First and foremost... I am not an expert on this subject.

But, my thoughts are that if you have a box that will allow moisture in, like around a switch or other device (maybe a fan), then you are better off with some kind of weep hole in the bottom of the box. In other words... if it is possible for water to get in, better to make a way for it to get out safely than have your box fill up with water. I would also try to protect the weep hole from allowing water to enter.

I'd like to hear an experts opinion.

Ed

Our nema 3 boxes have beveled weep holes in the bottom.

If the box is going to mounted below the brewery I don't see a problem with a Nema 4 box modified underneath. It will technically be Nema 3 but the front and sides will be protected from forceful water entry. Just keep it off the ground. It is better than nothing.
 
I think if you want to go cheap...the best thing to do is get an indoor rated box (not water tight at all!) and put it somewhere well away from any liquid or if it will be under the rig, cover it (just like the march pumps) so the water is deflected away.

By no means is this to any code but it will help from the minor spills and splashes we tend to see every brew day. If I were doing this I would at least get the water tight buttons, switches, etc since those will need to be accessible and not under the "cover."

Again, by no means is this saving you from any kind of electric shock, short or any liquid + electric hazard at all!!!
 
Use an ammo can, 50 cal or larger. They're cheap, watertight, and indestructible.
 
If you have a local alarm installer - ask them if they've got any old panels you can take off their hands.

I've got about 4 old panels like that anyone can have if they want to pick them up in Southeastern PA. Single side hinge, about 20 x 18 x 6 " deep. Solid black with some painted lettering on the outside.


PM me. I'm probably around the corner :)
 
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