Input on AG System Design

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IncredibleMulk

IncredibleMulk

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I've done 8-10 AG batches now (some BIAB and others on a buddies 3 tier) and I'm working on putting mine together. I would love some thoughts/criticism on my two-tier design (pictured below) and second I wanted some thoughts on the process I'm looking at doing with this set-up, which is basically this:

Hit mash temp in HLT/BK and pump to grain in MLT
Mash for desired time
Raise temp in HLT to sparge temp and recirculate holding at sparge temp for 15 minutes.
After 15 minutes kill recirculation and begin boil

Does this sound right? Any concerns? What would this process be considered?

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

Brew Stand 2.jpg
 
IncredibleMulk said:
Raise temp in HLT to sparge temp and recirculate holding at sparge temp for 15 minutes.
After 15 minutes kill recirculation and begin boil
Click to expand...

I have seen this idea proposed before. The only concern I have is you will be sparging your grains with wort, to me that seems inefficient. Trying to rinse sugar off grains with wort? I have never tried this though. I recommend the BK and HLT be separate.
 
This is roughly a Brutus 20 setup. I have tried it and my comments can be found here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f235/electric-brewgaloo-2-0-automated-brutus-20-8-valve-system-327911/

Even though that system is electric, the principal is the same. You will have lower efficiencies, to which some say "so what, grain is cheap, add more.". But that's not the point. I believe you will max out at a medium-OG beer, around 1.05. I am not down on the idea, I tried it myself and found it had limitations. Just throwing it out there.

to repeat what I posted:

Lonnie Mac from this post:

I can't say how many batches I have brewed using this concept on Brutus Ten, and with each, you are exactly right my friend. It is a great fun concept to fool around with but in short, I didn't build the 20 for several reasons... The idea has worked out great for my lower gravity beers, mild's, cream ales, etc...

The real problem is solution. As we know there is a saturation point of any dissolvable solid in water. Our problem of course is sugar in this case. So while there is just the right amount of water to hold ALL the sugar in solution for a light mash, much bigger beers saturate out rather quickly, and no amount of sparging will get the remaining sugars as we are sparging with water that is already saturated beyond retention. This puzzles me that the addition of grain would help this situation that I have experienced as the problem has not been a sugar issue, it remains a sparging issue. I am a BIG cream ale brewer. At first all my trials were based on lighter beers and they worked out great. The system was fun, and a change-up on brew-day was REAL fun. Kinda like playing with new toys!​
 
Excellent feedback so far...thank you.

It seems like I'm really only one tier and one pump off from the Brutus setup. I would assume a batch sparge could be done on higher gravity brews to improve efficiency. I tend to be all over the place on what I brew so this might become a pain. But, the batch sparge would fix the efficiency issue on higher OG brews; correct?
 
If you are going to batch sparge on higher OG beers, you will need another kettle. Once you have another kettle, HLT, you might as well batch sparge all the beers you make. If you are reluctant to buy another kettle you use more grain to account for inefficiency
 
hopsalot said:
If you are going to batch sparge on higher OG beers, you will need another kettle. Once you have another kettle, HLT, you might as well batch sparge all the beers you make. If you are reluctant to buy another kettle you use more grain to account for inefficiency
Click to expand...

If I'm going that route 100% of the time (batch sparge), I may as well go to a two tier, three vessel set-up to separate the HLT from the BK. Then move the pump between the HLT an MLT and gravity feed to BK.

I certainly don't want to build a system that I'm going to be limited on...and if I will have a hard time getting above 1.050 the way it is...I need to revise it. That's why I ask you guys! :mug:
 
What size batches are you doing? You could eliminate the need for a third vessel if you lauter into bucket(s). You can get a nylon hose barb to male pipe thread and use that in a bottling bucket (you'll also need a valve) and that will allow you to pump from the bottling bucket up to the BK after you add the sparge water to the MLT. Then gravity drain the second runnings strait to the BK.
 
Ten gallon batches are what I will be doing on this rig. I hadn't thought about using bucket(s) to lauter in. But...knowing me that would be one too many steps. I'm not too opposed to a third vessel, I just really liked the simplicity of the first design...just don't want to pigeon hole myself to low OG beers or create more work than I have to. I love the process of brewing...but I enjoy drinking the end product equally and don't want to take too much time from that! :drunk:
 
IncredibleMulk said:
I love the process of brewing...but I enjoy drinking the end product equally and don't want to take too much time from that! :drunk:
Click to expand...

If you are after simplicity (process, time, clean up, etc..), you should brew in a bag. You dont even have to sparge if you use extra grain. Although I recommend sparging
 
If you are not opposed to a 3rd vessel, then that is the better way. Plus it gives you an extra bk in case you ever want to split a batch to make two different beers or do a bouble batch back to back.

Edit

Was just looking at your second diagram. Since you have a pump, it would make more sense to have the HLT at the same level as your BK. There's no advantage to elevating it, and keeping it lower will allow you to boil in it if you ever have a need to.
 
hopsalot said:
If you are after simplicity (process, time, clean up, etc..), you should brew in a bag. You dont even have to sparge if you use extra grain. Although I recommend sparging
Click to expand...

I've been doing that a lot (BIAB)...I'm just wanting to step it up a bit and give myself another brew project...gives me a good excuse to brew AND drink more! :D
 
IncredibleMulk said:
I've been doing that a lot (BIAB)...I'm just wanting to step it up a bit and give myself another brew project...gives me a good excuse to brew AND drink more! :D
Click to expand...

Right on, I like the second design, you will not be limited based on the recipe and you can potentially convert back and forth from the first and second design
 
hopsalot said:
Right on, I like the second design, you will not be limited based on the recipe and you can potentially convert back and forth from the first and second design
Click to expand...

Agree, this gives you the flexibility of brewing with both approaches.
 

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