HoppedIPA
Well-Known Member
throwing your hop pellets into the boil directly? Thanks
How much less extraction using hop bags..vs
- Thread starter HoppedIPA
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Crazybrew04
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure there would be much difference if the hop sack is big enough not to constrict the hops
HoppedIPA
Well-Known Member
Say for example using a bag that can hold a pound of grain for an oz or 2 of hops..?
apratsunrthd
Well-Known Member
I was thinking of this exact question last night while brewing --actually while washing out a hop bag. I can tell you this, I had a hop bag come open in a boil once and trying to get that beer filtered en route to the primary was a NIGHTMARE. Maybe someone will chime in with the answer to your question and a suggestion for easy filtration if it turns out tossing them in is the way to go.
KeithMoonsLiver
Well-Known Member
seems like there are as many different opinions as there are replies to this sort of question. i would be interested in seeing an actual study on the subject.
Crazybrew04
Well-Known Member
yeah that would work. trial and error i guess. if you pull the bag out and its tight you know u didnt leave enough space. not the best answer but the best i have
apratsunrthd
Well-Known Member
Well, maybe it's not a good analogy, but think about coffee. Coffee from a french press is generally stronger with more flavor complexity than coffee brewed through a paper filter. The reason being, paper filters prevent some of the oils in the bean from passing into the final beverage.
Would this not be the same for hops? Perhaps it doesn't matter as much for full-boil bittering hops but I'd think 2 minute aroma hops might see a rather large benefit being added directly to the wort.
Would this not be the same for hops? Perhaps it doesn't matter as much for full-boil bittering hops but I'd think 2 minute aroma hops might see a rather large benefit being added directly to the wort.
HoppedIPA
Well-Known Member
YEah i understand the French Press Its the only way i brew my coffee every day..reason i ask is i brewed a beer last week that should per beer caculous be around 200+ ibu and i know you cant taste that bitter a beer .. but it doesnt hit me in the face like i hoped it would. Yes it still is in primary..
Will it get more bitter the longer its in there or is that "done"
Will it get more bitter the longer its in there or is that "done"
HoppedIPA
Well-Known Member
There is TONS of space left in the bags when i pull it out.. i also end up squeezing it dry as i dont want to leave any thing there.. read some say not to do this.. but...
yeah that would work. trial and error i guess. if you pull the bag out and its tight you know u didnt leave enough space. not the best answer but the best i have
I JUST used a hop bag spider last brew day. I used the small fine muslin bag and not a coarse or paint strainer bag.
I can not say how much more or less hoppy the beer was/will be but it was MUCH easier than using a splatter screen to catch the hops! Adding the hops directly into the wort may get you a slightly better efficiency for hop utilization but you will loose a lot more "potential beer" in the bottom of the BK due to hop and break material left behind.
I "tea bag" the hop bag during the boil and this is easier than the mess in the bottom of the BK.
IMO I will never be going back to adding the hops directly into the wort.
Also, you NEVER want the bag to touch the bottom area of the BK as it will melt...Hop spider cost me less than $15 and I love it!
I can not say how much more or less hoppy the beer was/will be but it was MUCH easier than using a splatter screen to catch the hops! Adding the hops directly into the wort may get you a slightly better efficiency for hop utilization but you will loose a lot more "potential beer" in the bottom of the BK due to hop and break material left behind.
I "tea bag" the hop bag during the boil and this is easier than the mess in the bottom of the BK.
IMO I will never be going back to adding the hops directly into the wort.
Also, you NEVER want the bag to touch the bottom area of the BK as it will melt...Hop spider cost me less than $15 and I love it!
Crazybrew04
Well-Known Member
tea bag for 60 min? If i understand correct. i used a small guage wire and hang it on the brew kettle. then it just does its thing and i can pull it out with the wire.
edit: nevermind i understand.
No, I more or less lift it completely out of the boiling wort and then drop it back in quickly. I really do not stand there tea bagging the thing the entire time. Mostly when I am near it, doing a hop addition or a minute or 2 after an addition. I also think that is mostly for my own satisfaction and has little else to do with it lol.
sgillespie
Well-Known Member
I would personally think that the difference would be too subtle to detect in a 200+ IBU beer. I certainly wouldn't think that the hopsack would "cap" your bitterness potential. But who knows, maybe you could do 2 batches side by side to see
My understanding is that hash bitterness gets more "subdued" over time
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
I use 5 inch tea balls for mine, I think I get great utilization because
A) I only use 1.5oz max in each one
B) they weigh down the hops, holding them under the wort in the most intense part of the boil
A) I only use 1.5oz max in each one
B) they weigh down the hops, holding them under the wort in the most intense part of the boil
apratsunrthd
Well-Known Member
I didn't know tea had balls.
That sounds like a great idea. Do you use pellets in them? I can't recall how fine the mesh is on a tea ball.
This actually can be related back to the french press analogy. A happy medium for coffee brewing is a stainless or gold-toned filter as it blocks fewer oils than paper. Makes sense that it would also block fewer hop oils. Maybe one could even craft a hop spider using a gold-toned coffee filter.
Crazybrew04
Well-Known Member
HoppedIPA
Well-Known Member
BTW the bags i use are not paper but cloth of some sorts. almost like stockings but cotton i think..
DrawTap88
Well-Known Member
My hop bag is a vinyl like material. It has turned pretty green since I started brewing a year ago. When I started brewing I used it religiously, then went with direct additions, and am now back to using the bag. I really didn't see a difference between using or not using it besides the amount of crud on the bottom of my boil kettle.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
Yeah I use pellets. They're fine enough that the vast majority of the pellet doesn't escape... powder does but that doesn't really matter anyways. They're a bit pricey but I use them every time, plus I bought them with a bday gift certificate
here's what I got:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047Z2FKW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002U9B2QA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
They're called herb infusers if you search for them, I assume cuz they're much bigger than tea balls
Just make sure they're stainless steel.
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apratsunrthd
Well-Known Member
Yeah I use pellets. They're fine enough that the vast majority of the pellet doesn't escape... powder does but that doesn't really matter anyways. They're a bit pricey but I use them every time, plus I bought them with a bday gift certificate
here's what I got:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047Z2FKW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002U9B2QA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
They're called herb infusers if you search for them, I assume cuz they're much bigger than tea balls
Just make sure they're stainless steel.
I just bought 2 on your recommendation. Excellent idea.
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I do want to set the record straight on the 4 inch infuser "balls" I have 3 and a few of the smaller ones.
IMO:
- They are flimsy and bend easily, making them difficult/clumsy to open close.
- They limit the amount of hops you can use. They work best with 1-2 oz of pellet hops in them. (Remember the hops need to be free and not compacted inside these. Nothing makes you quite so mad as to open one of these that was overloaded with hops to find it dry in the center.)
- They limit hop additions on a per ball scenario (Kinda hard to do a 90 min IPA adding hops every 7.5 minutes with just a few balls.)
- They are expensive. The cost of 2-3 of these will get a nice hop bag spider with a bit of DIY.
- They become useless on a batch bigger than 6 gallons (10-12 gallons) unless you have LOTS of them.
- in a standard 5-6 gallon stock pot it is tough to get 3-4 balls submerged in the boiling wort as they are NOT flexible in that way.
If you have these and they work for you, great. Mine are collecting dust...
BTW the World Market normally stocks these at $6-8 each.
IMO:
- They are flimsy and bend easily, making them difficult/clumsy to open close.
- They limit the amount of hops you can use. They work best with 1-2 oz of pellet hops in them. (Remember the hops need to be free and not compacted inside these. Nothing makes you quite so mad as to open one of these that was overloaded with hops to find it dry in the center.)
- They limit hop additions on a per ball scenario (Kinda hard to do a 90 min IPA adding hops every 7.5 minutes with just a few balls.)
- They are expensive. The cost of 2-3 of these will get a nice hop bag spider with a bit of DIY.
- They become useless on a batch bigger than 6 gallons (10-12 gallons) unless you have LOTS of them.
- in a standard 5-6 gallon stock pot it is tough to get 3-4 balls submerged in the boiling wort as they are NOT flexible in that way.
If you have these and they work for you, great. Mine are collecting dust...
BTW the World Market normally stocks these at $6-8 each.
I use nylon knee highs and pellet hops. Did 5 gals of EdWort's Haus Pale Ale with the knee highs and 5 gals without. I could not tell a difference hop wise.
broadbill
Well-Known Member
I don't think your issues have anything to do with a hop bag possibly impairing utilization/IBU extraction. I think its more a result that you are trying to do a 200+ IBU beer. There are a whole host of issues that can affect utilization in your situation, the least of which is the hop bag (in my opinion anyway).
What was your hop schedule like? Was it something more elaborate than dumping 200+ IBU worth of hops in at 60 minutes?
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
Yeah this is all true. I have one smaller tea ball but it's way too small and basically useless for its purpose, the hops just expand too much.
I don't do constant addition IPAs, I stick to more normal additions. The most I'll put in them is 2oz and they're always wet all the way through, I like to keep it to 1.5oz... the 5 inch one can take 2.5oz. For really big IPAs I have a few cheap muslin bags around in case the additions are too big or I don't have enough tea balls.
They're good for me cuz I do 5gal AG stovetop batches in an 8 gallon pot, I can just hang up to 5 of them on the side of the pot and they submerge (sometimes I have to hold them down with a spoon for a minute or two cuz they want to float when dry). I used to have an issue opening them but I realized I thought they opened on a different seam than the one I was trying to twist so that was human idiocy, lol. I have one that likes to get stuck but it's not a big deal, a little muscle and it's fine.
They're fantastic for any recipe that uses normal amounts of hops and I use them in all my IPAs as well. They do have limitations as you said but they're a nice luxury, IMO.
