Consecration kit from MoreBeer

This was my first experience with more beer. While their shipping was awesome and they answered some questions I had about the recipe pretty quick, I'm pretty disappointed in their instructions, I won't be buying any more kits through them for sure... Why pay the premium for a kit when you still have to figure everything out for yourself?

The kits from Midwest Supplies kick arse! To the point where I use their website kit pictures to gather Clone recipes..... <GRIN>

I've been happiest with Austin so far. Awesome shipping, Customer service, packaging, instructions, etc... I may give midwest a shot though.

Sorry to contribute to the thread jack..

dtwhite said:

Right, then why doesn't it say that in the freaking instructions? The whole point of a kit is to have a set of ingredients and instructions that are already figured out so I don't have to figure it out. At the very least it should tell me when I need to do adjustments. Now, because of this stupid oversight, there's a good chance I basically wasted ~$70 and months of waiting.

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You haven't wasted anything. Add the Roselare, and the currants and put your fermenter in a normal, room temperature area of your house and forget about it for at least a year. Seriously, keep your airlock full, but otherwise forget about it.

I didn't wait nearly as long as others are to add the Roselare. I did however add it, and a quart of starter wort, and the currants into a separate fermenter overnight, then added that mixture to the beer. IIRC I added the oak at about 14 months, then kegged at 16 months. At that time my brew was very similar to a real Consecration I picked up last summer. Go back a few pages and you can see side by side pics. I have one more real one till August so maybe I'll do another comparison tonight!

My beer is somewhat less tart than the real thing. Who knows, maybe due to the higher IBUs? It is certainly an acceptable tribute. So again, IMO you haven't wasted anything. Pitch the bugs and forget about it for a while!

May be a dumb question, but this is my first attempt at a sour and will certainly be the longest I've let somethign sit in secondary. Would there be any benefit of adding some fermentables (corn sugar most likely) every few months throughout secondary to try to get more Brett/Bug action and tartness going on? or would that be a waste of time/effort or even have a negative impact?

FredTheNuke said:

Lacto stunts as low as 8 IBU. Most all Russian River beers are 10-15 IBUs. Wish I had that Info before I brewed my 28 IBU Consecration clone...

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My BSmith recipe says 13.7, but I know it's going to be less than that because I didn't adjust for the hop age, and I also know my boil intensity is lower than it should've been when I brewed it.

TD


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ruger988 said:

May be a dumb question, but this is my first attempt at a sour and will certainly be the longest I've let somethign sit in secondary. Would there be any benefit of adding some fermentables (corn sugar most likely) every few months throughout secondary to try to get more Brett/Bug action and tartness going on? or would that be a waste of time/effort or even have a negative impact?

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Nope. Those cool funky flavors are coming from the Brett breaking things down other than sugars. Just let it ride!

ruger988 said:

May be a dumb question, but this is my first attempt at a sour and will certainly be the longest I've let somethign sit in secondary. Would there be any benefit of adding some fermentables (corn sugar most likely) every few months throughout secondary to try to get more Brett/Bug action and tartness going on? or would that be a waste of time/effort or even have a negative impact?

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Consecration has a high enough ABV already, and to add more fermentables would only make matters worse. At some point the ABV is going to inhibit the souring because the organisms responsible don't like a high ABV environment. This is my understanding anyway. One of the purposes of adding the currants, is to provide complex fermentables that the souring organisms can digest, but that regular yeast cannot digest as easily, and some component, not at all. The other purpose is of course for flavor. If the ABV were much lower, adding more fermentables is one strategy to get more from the bugs. I am still a sour noob myself, and currently reading oldsock's book. I think I've read somewhere one of his articles about adding maltodextrin or unmalted adjuncts at mash out to increase complex carbohydrates that the regular yeast will be unable to process, as opposed to corn sugar, which would be easily digested by the presumably more populous regular yeast in the fermenting beer.

TD


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But many strains of Brett can tolerate up to 20% (per Wild Brews).... The Brett would continue munching away happily and creating more horse blankets to keep us warm...

5 lbs of freshly salted German Sauerkraut living with 15 gallons of Consecration!!! Excellent site.

hllywd said:

You haven't wasted anything. Add the Roselare, and the currants and put your fermenter in a normal, room temperature area of your house and forget about it for at least a year. Seriously, keep your airlock full, but otherwise forget about it.

I didn't wait nearly as long as others are to add the Roselare. I did however add it, and a quart of starter wort, and the currants into a separate fermenter overnight, then added that mixture to the beer. IIRC I added the oak at about 14 months, then kegged at 16 months. At that time my brew was very similar to a real Consecration I picked up last summer. Go back a few pages and you can see side by side pics. I have one more real one till August so maybe I'll do another comparison tonight!

My beer is somewhat less tart than the real thing. Who knows, maybe due to the higher IBUs? It is certainly an acceptable tribute. So again, IMO you haven't wasted anything. Pitch the bugs and forget about it for a while!

Click to expand...

What I'm learning now, especially after reading some of American Sour Beers, is that Vinnie actually prefers the Pediococcus sourness over Lactobacillus sourness, so having a slightly higher IBU that inhibits only the latter is actually intentional, and the Pedio should still create plenty of acidity. I'm OK waiting for a while!

hi there!

this is my very first sour outside of the lactic partial sour mash beers (this one came out great using raspberries!), and i can't thank the group enough for all of the great information! i've just pitched my Brett into the beer on currants (after it dropped to 1.017 with the Abbey ale yeast), and am now thinking about temperature for the next 7-8 weeks. my basement seems to be holding my fermentors around 74-76F at the present. is this ok? or should i use temp control with my keezer to keep it a bit lower? how about in 8 weeks once i pitch the other bugs? did anyone compare pitching the Pedi/Lacto vs Roeselare? the info i find seems to span a broad range of advice on these points so i thought i'd check in with the experts.

thanks!

Just bottled this up, except I used Bugfarm and not Abbey Ale etc for mine. Its very fruity, very tropical, quite tart and complex, but unfortunately a bit too oaky for me. Life got in the way and this carboy has been aging since 10/2012.

Coff said:

Just bottled this up, except I used Bugfarm and not Abbey Ale etc for mine. Its very fruity, very tropical, quite tart and complex, but unfortunately a bit too oaky for me. Life got in the way and this carboy has been aging since 10/2012.

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Wow, two years on bugfarm... must be intense!

Regarding too much oak: blend?

What type and quantity of oak did you use and how?
Mine has been on oak for a few months now, nearing its first birthday since brewing, maybe 9 1/2 months

TD


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sweetcell said:

Wow, two years on bugfarm... must be intense!

Regarding too much oak: blend?

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Im not that worried about the level of oak I think it will fade a little bit over time. I think its more the character of cubes that can be a little harsh for me, especially since I now have a few 15g oak whiskey barrels, so much smoother and well rounded then the cubes or chips.

I actually blended some of the batch with some fresh Saison to dial it back a little bit. The rest I bottled up as planned.

TrickyDick said:

What type and quantity of oak did you use and how?
Mine has been on oak for a few months now, nearing its first birthday since brewing, maybe 9 1/2 months

TD


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I used about an ounce of cubes that sat in Cab Sav for 6 months. The oak has been in there for 4 months, maybe I am just not digging the character that Ive gotten from this oak. The aroma was pretty overwhelmingly oaky, and fruity.

Today I took a gravity / taste sample from my kit. I brewed it April 30th, added Brett / moved to secondary May 18th, and added Roeselare mix June 30th. So it's been in secondary for about 2.5 months.

Currently gravity is at 1.003 (?!) and it tastes pretty hoppy (see my earlier complaints about the kit), maybe only lightly sour. In reading the American Sour Beer book, I would think that I should add some extract in order to give the bugs some more food to eat, as it seems like that gravity is stupidly low in a way that it won't get any more sour without a bump. I know the pedio takes more time to work but is there anything to even work with at 1.003?

Thoughts?

I think that what I've read, that Brett will take it down to 1.000 eventually. I've also read that the funk character can develop in absence of significant gravity changes. Sour character is another matter, and I've read that the roeselare is often restrained in its first pitch from a smack pack. You might try adding some dregs from a non-pasteurized bottle of your favorite commericial sour. Jolly pumpkin would be a good pick as they have fast production method and usually therefore higher amounts of critters in their dregs I would imagine. Then give it maybe another month and check again. You can always add food grade lactic acid to taste.

TD


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TrickyDick said:

I think that what I've read, that Brett will take it down to 1.000 eventually.

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in some cases it will, and in some it won't. blanket statements about brett are hard to make because brett is an extremely diverse genus. with sacch, we only use one species: saccharomyces cerevisiae. with brett, there are several: anomalus (clausenii), bruxellensis (lambicus), custersianus (abstinens), naardenensis, nanus. these don't all behave the same.

TrickyDick said:

Jolly pumpkin would be a good pick as they have fast production method and usually therefore higher amounts of critters in their dregs I would imagine.

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i wonder: is it the number of bugs they use, or the type? my guess is that it's the latter. certain species of lacto are faster and produce more acid than others. but inoculating with more bugs would also work...

Not sure. I was thinking that if they use a faster production method, that when the bottle, the beer is not as old and the viability of the critters would be higher, like buying yeast pack with the most recent production date. It seems to make sense, but have no idea if its true.

TD


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TrickyDick said:

I think that what I've read, that Brett will take it down to 1.000 eventually. I've also read that the funk character can develop in absence of significant gravity changes. Sour character is another matter, and I've read that the roeselare is often restrained in its first pitch from a smack pack. You might try adding some dregs from a non-pasteurized bottle of your favorite commericial sour. Jolly pumpkin would be a good pick as they have fast production method and usually therefore higher amounts of critters in their dregs I would imagine. Then give it maybe another month and check again. You can always add food grade lactic acid to taste.

TD


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Click to expand...

Good input, thanks for the reply.

edit: if my next post is the top of page 52, do I win something?

My understanding is that specific gravity is indicative of the simple sugars remaining. It does not measure the complex chains that the bugs will break down over the course of a year, turn into sugar and eat. So it in and of itself is not a good indicator. It will show when it is safe to bottle a sour beer as the changes I mentioned above happen over the course of years and if I am correct (if not please someone mention) the bugz eating complex chains does not necessarily produce carbon dioxide; therefore bottle bomb potential is avoided...

My consecration has been going for over a year and half I tasted it yesterday. Very complex but not overly sour. I would like a little more tartness but overall I'm happy with it. I'm debating whether to use the dregs/bugs for another batch or a fresh pitch a new roselare.

Thoughts?


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FredTheNuke said:

5 lbs of freshly salted German Sauerkraut living with 15 gallons of Consecration!!! Excellent site.

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I make my own fermented kraut as well. cheers!

DakotaRules said:

My consecration has been going for over a year and half I tasted it yesterday. Very complex but not overly sour. I would like a little more tartness but overall I'm happy with it. I'm debating whether to use the dregs/bugs for another batch or a fresh pitch a new roselare.

Thoughts?


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I was in the same boat with mine about a year into it. Pretty good but just not that sour. Added Supplication and one other's (I think La Roja) dregs and gave it another 6 months and it turned out great. Might not be much left for the bugs to chew on but give it a shot and another 6 months maybe? Good luck!

mr_samsonite said:

I was in the same boat with mine about a year into it. Pretty good but just not that sour. Added Supplication and one other's (I think La Roja) dregs and gave it another 6 months and it turned out great. Might not be much left for the bugs to chew on but give it a shot and another 6 months maybe? Good luck!

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Thanks!

Another question, after this is ready to transfer, has anyone put a fresh batch of wort on this or another fermented batch on this?


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I intend to try reusing my yeast cakes. The question is it is worth taking the time to strain out the leftover currants (most likely yes as they take up considerable space).

Jester King has done a couple of beers where they re-use the "spent" fruit in another beer. They claim it is a more restrained fruit flavor than the primary fermentation. I've not had the pleasure of tasting any of them.

TD

Oh - cool. I'm gonna add another 3lbs of currants per 5 gallon batch, too. Wonder what will happen.... 8 )

It's time for me to add my Wyeast 3763: Roeselare.
The homebrew store only had two left and both were mfg Feb 24, 2014.
They gave me both packs for the price of one and said I should pitch both at the same time due to them almost being out of that six month window.
They said they weren't worried about the bugs in there but the yeast, being as old as it is, may have issues and not be as active.
This is a very long duration fermentation and an expensive beer to boot. I'm already about 7 1/2 weeks and ~80.00 in before today. The last thing I want to do is butcher it with bad product.
Is there anything I should be worried about with A) pitching such an old yeast or B) pitching that many bugs at once?
If the yeast is fine does that mean the bugs just won't take as long to sour since I'd be double pitching?

At the 8 week point the Sacc yeast are not a factor. You are after the BUGZ! All looks good. Pitch 'em.

Getting ready to give this recipe a shot soon. Thinking of doing a 1.25L starter for the WLP530, which should get me to 246B cells of the recommended 264B needed for a 1.073 SG. Does that seem like enough/too much of an underpitch?

Medic218 said:

Is there anything I should be worried about with A) pitching such an old yeast or B) pitching that many bugs at once?

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nothing to worry about, pitch 'em both.

Medic218 said:

If the yeast is fine does that mean the bugs just won't take as long to sour since I'd be double pitching?

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might be faster, or it might not... either way it'll still take a while. give it a year then sample. lets the taste determine when it's done.

I am about to taste my first bottle this weekend. I actually have a RR bottle to compare it too as well. Its almost been 21 months!

I hate that I got myself into something thats going to take sooooo long to finish.
Maybe I should start another one in a month or so.

Pole said:

Getting ready to give this recipe a shot soon. Thinking of doing a 1.25L starter for the WLP530, which should get me to 246B cells of the recommended 264B needed for a 1.073 SG. Does that seem like enough/too much of an underpitch?

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Bump. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Pole said:

Bump. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

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Should be just fine. A slight underpitch may actually be ideal for this style.

Thanks!

I took a look at my 3 five gallon batches today and noticed a few changes. Originally brewed on 4/23/2014 so just over 4 months in.

1. The currants are still floating. Is this normal? I had assumed they would have sunk to the bottom.

2. Something has "woke up" in it - there are visible fermentation bubbles. Not super active like Sacc yeast but they are there and one of the 3 airlocks had a brown tint to the water. All 3 had fermentation "foam" reach the bottom of the bung. This was not there a month ago. The batches have been in a chest freezer at 68F in total darkness and undisturbed. As I punched down through the currant layer with a wine thief lots of CO2 bubbles flowed upwards.

3. In the process of cleaning the airlocks (I know this introduces a slight amount of oxygen but I wanted to refresh the airlock water to ensure no "bad" bacteria finds its way into the brews) the airlock water SMELLED sour!!! That I see as a good thing - it was the same sour smell you get from a good bottle of the finished product.

4. I snuck a wine thief in and drew a small half cup sample... Because I had to punch through the currant layer there was lots of sediment. I let it settle and took a few sips. I was impressed! A decent start to a sour flavor - not a puckerbomb but much to the level of Liefmans Goudenband Oud Bruin. Actually tasted VERY much like the Goudenband. I can't wait until this stuff is fully matured in 8 or so more months!

Sounds great FredtheNuke!

I'm getting ready to sample mine for first time. I checked my notes and seems I brewed on jan 1,2014, so I'm technically 8 months into the aging. Also testing a KBS clone that I soured half of. Been thinking about splitting some lacto brevis amongst the two to see if I can get a little more tartness out of them if they aren't there yet. The KBS was brewed on 11/16/13. These two brews had quite a bit of hops in them. I added plenty of dregs along the way- JK, Almanac, jolly pumpkin, Cascade, no RR though..
My currants are all dropped. Have a pellicle on them. Need to post some pics of these when I test them.

TD



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