Any advantage to NOT removing trub prior to fermentation?

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nasmeyer

nasmeyer

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Is there any advantage to not straining (removing) trub prior to pouring into the primary fermenter? It seems there is some talk about hot and cold break material having some good properties for the yeast early in the fermentation process. I was also wondering if I am losing some hop flavor by removing them prior to fermentation. I have been using a sanatized 5 gallon mesh strainer that collects all the hops, as well as everything else while pouring wort into my fermenter (removes everything!) and everytime I get any unexpected flavor I try to figure out what I might change next time. Well this is my "next time" question.

If there is an advantage to keeping trub early in the fermentation process and needing to remove it later, I can dump the collected trub because I am using a conical.

Any opinions?
 
To my mind, it seems that you'd get a little more flavor/aroma from any 5min/0min hop additions... but I never seem to hear that opinion here.
 
Some strain it all out, some dump it all into the fermentor. Either way one can make good beer. I have not come across any definitive rationale as to why one method would yield better results.
 
I'm in the 'leave it alone' camp. It's part of the brewing process, don't worry about it. It looks worse than it actually is. After fermenting for a week or two the trub will compact and will be a thin layer in the bottom of the fermenter. Trying to deal with it too early will result in a loss of good beer.
 
I cannot answer the "why" part but I have not been straining and let my beers set in the primary for 3-5 weeks. Everything settles out pretty well and the beer comes out really clear.
 
ibbones said:
I cannot answer the "why" part but I have not been straining and let my beers set in the primary for 3-5 weeks. Everything settles out pretty well and the beer comes out really clear.
Click to expand...
Do you brew Ales with lots of hops? I have been straning due to the large amount of hop material in my IPA's. I was concerned about the same grassy flavors associated with dry hopping too long, and figured lots of hops for 3-4 weeks in the primary would do the same thing. But on the other hand even though I am using lots of hops I don't end up with a great hop sensation like the store bought IPA's. Maybe I need to try leaving them in during the primary phase at least?
 
I'll preclude my comment by saying this: whatever Jamil Z. says to do in terms of brewing, I'm gonna do. He says (for ales only) removing trub doesn't matter. Leaving it all in is ok. Personally I don't take all of it, but not anal about keeping it all out either. BTW, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, just personal preference. If you're making good beer, do whatcha like.
 
Most of the time I don't strain. When I do brews with a lot of hops (my last one had 6 ounces in the boil) then I will. Have you ever seen what 6 ounces of hops looks like when its in a liquid solution? I will take a up a lot of space!!! It doesn't pack down into a nice solid layer. It stays saturated with liquid, so no matter how long you let it sit, it will still suck up a lot of beer. Get a paint strainer from the hardware store, they make them for 5 gallon buckets.
 
The yeast can use trub material when they lack oxygen. But they will make funny flavors in doing so. With enough oxygen, they won't use the trub. Any benefit from break material the yeast need they can get from the cold break. The cold break also seems to have no flavor downside; unlike the hot break.
 
I use whole hops and I don't put them in a hop bag. When I first started brewing I was told that as the wort cools and the hops settle and they help to filter out the trub. The rest will settle after fermentation.
 
ive done both left it in and strain it out but i have nt done a secondry fermentation which when i do i plan to leave it in
 
I don't understand this.
Isn't cold break what hot break turns into?
Click to expand...

The hot break is made up of proteins that are formed during the boil, all or mostly at the beginning. The cold break is a separate group of proteins that precipitate when the wort is cooled rapidly.
 
bigjoe said:
I don't understand this.
Isn't cold break what hot break turns into?
Click to expand...
No. Hot break is generated early in the boil. Cold break is generated when cooling after the boil is finished.
From what I have read, break material can introduce off flavors. See http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter9-1.html. This is what I have read, not necessarily what I believe, and certainly not what I know, but Palmer is not the only person to say this.
I have always left most of the hot break and hops behind before transferring to the fermenter, but for the last several years, I transfer the cold break because I use a CFC. I haven't noticed any problems caused by the cold break ending up in the fermenter with ales, but just in case there could be a problem when brewing lagers, I rack from the kettle into a carboy, and then rack from that carboy into the primary fermenter 12 - 24 hours later before pitching the yeast.
I'm not saying this is necessary, or recommending this. Just saying that this is what I do.

-a.
 
pkeeler I think I read your post incorrectly. I thought you were saying that removing the hot break had an effect. I think you were saying (I was a little slow on the uptake) that if you don't have a good hot break it will effect beer.
 
nasmeyer said:
Do you brew Ales with lots of hops? I have been straning due to the large amount of hop material in my IPA's. I was concerned about the same grassy flavors associated with dry hopping too long, and figured lots of hops for 3-4 weeks in the primary would do the same thing. But on the other hand even though I am using lots of hops I don't end up with a great hop sensation like the store bought IPA's. Maybe I need to try leaving them in during the primary phase at least?
Click to expand...

I brew an IPA or a hoppy APA every 2nd batch. I have never had a single one taste 'grassy', and I always dump all my trub/pellet hop gunk into the fermenter. I never use a secondary, unless I am needing to bulk age an IIPA, Old Ale, Barleywine, Trippel, etc. I have never once had an issue Also, I used to filter my brews and use a secondary when I first started, so I have tried both ways. The only benefit I got from a secondary was my last 4 bottles during the bottling phase had less crap in the bottom... thats it. (nothing at all against it, mind you!) Anyway, filtering/and or worrying about grassy flavours or off flavours of the trub is a waste of your obviously superior brain power (given you are a home brewer).
 
ajf said:
No. Hot break is generated early in the boil. Cold break is generated when cooling after the boil is finished.
From what I have read, break material can introduce off flavors. See http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter9-1.html. This is what I have read, not necessarily what I believe, and certainly not what I know, but Palmer is not the only person to say this.
I have always left most of the hot break and hops behind before transferring to the fermenter, but for the last several years, I transfer the cold break because I use a CFC. I haven't noticed any problems caused by the cold break ending up in the fermenter with ales, but just in case there could be a problem when brewing lagers, I rack from the kettle into a carboy, and then rack from that carboy into the primary fermenter 12 - 24 hours later before pitching the yeast.
I'm not saying this is necessary, or recommending this. Just saying that this is what I do.

-a.
Click to expand...

I love Palmer. But.... just saying, his statement in that chapter has no sources. Therefore, it leads me to believe he is only saying this based on his assumptions? Not knocking the guy, but a strong statement like "trub can cause off flavors just because" has about zero credibility. Now, someone feel free to correct me, I am not trying to be a dick... just trying to be objective about this topic.
 
nasmeyer said:
Is there any advantage to not straining (removing) trub prior to pouring into the primary fermenter? It seems there is some talk about hot and cold break material having some good properties for the yeast early in the fermentation process. I was also wondering if I am losing some hop flavor by removing them prior to fermentation. I have been using a sanatized 5 gallon mesh strainer that collects all the hops, as well as everything else while pouring wort into my fermenter (removes everything!) and everytime I get any unexpected flavor I try to figure out what I might change next time. Well this is my "next time" question.

If there is an advantage to keeping trub early in the fermentation process and needing to remove it later, I can dump the collected trub because I am using a conical.

Any opinions?
Click to expand...

I realize this is a bit late to reply...but.....let me add my two cents as I just experienced what I perceived to be the differences. I did an American Pale earlier this year where I let a lot of trub go into the fermenter...it turned out FANTASTIC! Very hoppy. I liked it so much I did it again, but I was able to contain the trub and not so much entered the ferementer. Although still a very good beer, not nearly as hoppy as the first. So, was it the trub in the fermenter? Perhaps!
 
I have literally no references to back it up, but on my beers that are supposed to be hoppy i leave all the hop trub to hang out with the believe that i'll get more hop flavor that way

Plus I didn't have enough hop bags to do all my hop additions for my pliny clone

Edit: Woah thread necromancy

threadnecromancyns1nf0.jpg
 
I just did a trub search and read this thread, and I love the 'thread necromancy' magic card. I thought I was the only one who played magic AND brewed, good times. I have to bump it.
 
Just brewed a batch and got a good amount of the trub into the primary, I was wondering about its effects, read this thread and saw the magic the gathering AND homebrew comment and decided, "I have to bump it."
 

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