I just drank a cream ale for the first time ever.

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blakelyc

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Fairly often I have an experience that makes me say, "Wow, I don't know a damn thing about beer." Usually that experience is something obvious in that any-brewer-ought-to-know-this kind of way.

Today that happened when, for the first time ever, I drank a cream ale. I've just never had one, instead choosing to pass them over on beer lists for something more exotic. I've also never had one from any of my homebrewing friends. Seems obvious that I should have had one, but it's just never happened.

Today's little wonder was something called "Genesee Cream Ale", which I have heard of but never seen until lunch today at the NY Beer Company on 44th.

That was one tasty little beer. Good mouthfeel, clean taste, not a whole lot of hop character, but just a smooth drinkin' can of goodness. It was good in simple, uncomplicated kind of way. Talking to a friend at work about it, he was remembering "back in the day" when he used to open up a Genesee every day after work to start the wind-down.

Of course I'm probably writing stuff you folks all know. But for me this was a new experience, and once that taught me that I need to pull back a little on my own brewing habits and learn this style. Time to search some recipes!
 
I've been reading about Cream Ales for a long time, but I don't eat dairy and as stupid as it sounds, I thought they actually had some sort of cream in them so I never searched for one or a recipe until I just read this post. Guess they don't have dairy in them, time to find one to try, thanks for the inspiration.
 
it was totally crazy... normally, i like to take my time, sniff, taste, analyze. There was none of that. One sip and a "that's a good beer!" reaction.

Your recipe looks great, Pappers.... is it the flaked corn that does the magic?
 
I will tell you over and over again that my favorite beers are browns, porters, stouts.... so why did I kick the cream ale I brewed before the other two in the kegerator, when it was the third one in sequence I brewed?
Good stuff. I too judged that book by its cover until I had one.
 
Never had a cream ale.... shoot me?

I've been eyeing the AG northernbrewer one for months, but can't raise myself to do it without trying one somewhere first.

Ordering the first one I see next time.
 
Our house cream ale is probably our most popular beer. I love it- it tastes amazing, is refreshing, and it's BMC crowd friendly. You can't beat it.
 
blakelyc said:
Your recipe looks great, Pappers.... is it the flaked corn that does the magic?
Click to expand...

Yes, corn is an important ingredient in many cream ale recipes. According to the BJCP guidelines, it can be up to 20% of the grain bill.

Here's part of what the guidelines say about it:

A low to moderate corny flavor from corn adjuncts is commonly found, as is some DMS. Finish can vary from somewhat dry to faintly sweet from the corn, malt, and sugar.
Click to expand...
 
Oh the memories. Starring at a fire under the viaduct drinking genesee beer with all the other kids from the neighborhood. Good old genny pounders. The cases were so big and strong. I seen a car jacked up off the ground with nothing but 4 genny cases before, no lie. Can't say I like it all that much anymore. It's still very popular in buffalo. Most of the bars have it on tap around here, rarely the cream ale however, just the regular. Alot of people shake black pepper ontop.
 
I remember Genee Creame Ale from when we lived in PA years ago. And yeah, it was because it was inexpensive. Time to revisit it.
Thank you for the recipe. That will figure into next year some time.
 
Okay, so is is getting interesting as the discussion goes on and I research more. I know the black pepper comment wasn't specifically about genesee cream ale, but based on what I tasted today I can totally see that as a viable and interesting variation.

I can say that I taste a lot of different beers, but I haven't been this taken by a style in a long time. I have the brewing classic styles recipe now as my base. Will screw with it from there. Pappers's saphir hop plan looks good... I think au Helga hops might be good too?

There is a lot of room to be creative here without violating the style. Fun!!
 
Never tried brewing one. I took a quick look at that recipe. I thought ther was lactose added to make cream ale?
 
You're going to make me seek out some Little Kings!! When I was in college we used to get a case of those for $13.00... granted they were small, but they were tasty little beers and we saved tons of the bottle caps because they had neat lil' bear claw prints on them.

Thanks for reminding me of the cream ales!!
 
jwalker1140 said:
I can vouch for this recipe ... me and probably a few hundred others on HBT:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/cream-three-crops-cream-ale-66503/
Click to expand...

I brew this up a lot. Great beer, very forgiving recipe. The hop schedule is really light so, subbing them out due to a shortage at your homebrew shop is easy. If you dig around, you'll find that you don't HAVE to used 'flaked maize' that is listed in the recipe either. Instant grits work as well and they are cheaper! I have read that you can use popped popcorn as well, although I have yet to try.

Also, yeah, Genesee is good stuff! I am jealous of those who get it cheap! Here, they stick it on the shelf next to all the other craft beer and it ain't cheap...
 
Just had my first taste of "cream of three crops" I brewed 1 month ago tonight. Got the recipe from biermuncher's post. Brewed 10 gallons. 5 with Nottingham and 5 with safale05. Clear, easy drinking, great mouthfeel
 
I think a lot of people have that misconception about cream ale. It's really nothing like it sounds. Light, crisp, almost lager like, but sweeter. No cream, not thick, not heavy.
My first "drunk" was on Genee pounders 30 years ago. Me and a buddy found 2 six packs some of the high school guys hid in the woods near the school. 15 years old, sittin by the pond in January with a fire going and a 6 pack a piece, we were kings that day.
 
I brew a lot of BM's Cream of 3 Crops, which is the most popular amongst my guests. I don't call it a cream ale because would think it had some of cream in it.
 
I just had a 22 of local brewery cream ale. It tasted like a beer cream soda. I am going back to buy more and see if i can get the brewer to give me some insight. If I nail it, it will soon become the house beer.
 
maddad said:
I just had a 22 of local brewery cream ale. It tasted like a beer cream soda. I am going back to buy more and see if i can get the brewer to give me some insight. If I nail it, it will soon become the house beer.
Click to expand...

I think some brew pubs do that, too - they add vanilla to it so its similar to a cream soda. Not BJCP, for sure, but somewhat popular.
 
I have started collecting some data on various cream ale recipes. Here's my mini-list so far:

1.) BCS recipe = Pale 2-row, Pilsner, rice
2.) Midsommar Cream Ale (Pappers) = Pale 2-row, corn
2.) Cream Of Three Crops (BierMuncher) = Pale 2-row, corn, rice
3.) Genesee My Butt (Skotrat) = Lager malt (6-row)?, vienna, munich, crystal, corn

I didn't put the hops on the list because they all manage to come in at 15-25 IBU's with low-alpha hops like liberty, willamette, etc. It is interesting that the BCS recipe doesn't use corn at all. I would expect that the use of only rice would give a lighter mouthfeel than corn.... I've never used either before, so I could be way off base with that statement.

Skotrat's recipe stands out as being significantly different with the use of 6-row "lager malt". Not sure what that is, but being 6-row I would assume that the addition of vienna, munich, and crystal along with the corn is in an effort to blunt the sharper flavor of the 6-row? Or is it to provide excess enzymes to get more conversion out of the whole thing?

Anyways, among those recipe we have everything from base+rice, base+corn, base+corn+rice, and base+specialty+corn. Seems like a lot of room to be creative! Any insight on these variations? I'm still thinking about pappers's use of saphir hops and maybe trying some Helga, too.
 
blakelyc said:
I have started collecting some data on various cream ale recipes. Here's my mini-list so far:

1.) BCS recipe = Pale 2-row, Pilsner, rice
2.) Midsommar Cream Ale (Pappers) = Pale 2-row, corn
2.) Cream Of Three Crops (BierMuncher) = Pale 2-row, corn, rice
3.) Genesee My Butt (Skotrat) = Lager malt (6-row)?, vienna, munich, crystal, corn

I didn't put the hops on the list because they all manage to come in at 15-25 IBU's with low-alpha hops like liberty, willamette, etc. It is interesting that the BCS recipe doesn't use corn at all. I would expect that the use of only rice would give a lighter mouthfeel than corn.... I've never used either before, so I could be way off base with that statement.

Skotrat's recipe stands out as being significantly different with the use of 6-row "lager malt". Not sure what that is, but being 6-row I would assume that the addition of vienna, munich, and crystal along with the corn is in an effort to blunt the sharper flavor of the 6-row? Or is it to provide excess enzymes to get more conversion out of the whole thing?

Anyways, among those recipe we have everything from base+rice, base+corn, base+corn+rice, and base+specialty+corn. Seems like a lot of room to be creative! Any insight on these variations? I'm still thinking about pappers's use of saphir hops and maybe trying some Helga, too.
Click to expand...

The next time I brew the cream ale, I'm intending to sub out half of the pale malt with pilsner. Might increase the dms/corn flavor, which is a component of this beer. As for the Saphir, they were a hop I had on hand for that batch and, as you say, low AA and non-citrus. I've used Hallertauer before and it was fine.
 
I have brewed BM's Cream of 3 Crops Cream Ale 5 times now.

The second time I brewed it I took 175 bottles of the stuff to my brother's wedding and ever last one was gone within 3 hours! I got more praise for that Cream Ale than I did for my amazing Pale Ale that I also had at the wedding.
 
The Mad Fermentationist has a recipe that involves 2-row and flaked corn along with Carapils and flaked barley in small proportion (5% each). I assume that's for head retention and will give a slightly heavier body. Probably not what I'm looking for overall, but increased head retention would be nice. The Genesee I drank had basically none.

I think I agree that half pilsner would be great, Pappers. To my palate is definitely wasn't all pale 2-row. I don't brew with adjuncts, but I wouldn't call this a "high adjunct" recipe so the use of 6-row for enzymatic purposes doesn't seem necessary. That makes me wonder about the Skotrat recipe and the use of Munich and Vienna.

Can you tell I like analyzing recipes? :)
 
Ha, am I the only one who saw the thread title and went right back to childhood? I'm sure I was still in elementary school when I drank my first Little Kings. Whoever owns the brand these days has tried to re-market it, to hipsters I'd assume. Saw an 8 pack of 7 oz'ers for the first time in in years. $8! I think that's what a case used to cost.

I brewed a cream ale with homegrown corn and a cereal mash. If you're the kind of person who already enjoys step mashes, decoctions, kettle carmelization, or other things that make long brew days, try a cereal mash! Cream ale has been fermenting at 56 with wyeast 2565 for two weeks. Still has krausen, at this rate I'm guessing it will be done around February.
 
If you 'don't brew with adjuncts' this isn't a good style to brew. The style is practically defined by the adjuncts. 'Faint malt notes. A sweet, corn-like aroma and low levels of DMS are commonly found.' Don't be an adjunct hater! Many world class beers are brewed with sugar, corn, and other non-barley malt ingredients.

blakelyc said:
The Mad Fermentationist has a recipe that involves 2-row and flaked corn along with Carapils and flaked barley in small proportion (5% each). I assume that's for head retention and will give a slightly heavier body. Probably not what I'm looking for overall, but increased head retention would be nice. The Genesee I drank had basically none.

I think I agree that half pilsner would be great, Pappers. To my palate is definitely wasn't all pale 2-row. I don't brew with adjuncts, but I wouldn't call this a "high adjunct" recipe so the use of 6-row for enzymatic purposes doesn't seem necessary. That makes me wonder about the Skotrat recipe and the use of Munich and Vienna.

Can you tell I like analyzing recipes? :)
Click to expand...
 
I may be mistaken, but I don't think lager malt is 6 row. It's 2 row pilsner malt I believe, some brands refer to it as lager malt though. At least that's my recollection.

I think a lot if brewers avoid cream ales because they use adjuncts and some brewers are very anti-adjunct. They think they're gonna end up with a BMC brew (which admittedly cream ales are sort of the ale equivalent to a BMC light lager IMO). But as people have said on this thread - they are quite good brews. Adjuncts don't have to be the enemy!
 
I miss the "Genesee Scream Ale". A college staple during my years at Niagara U. The ratebeer 10 rating doesn't do this one justice.
 
No, no.. when I say I don't brew with adjuncts, i'm just trying to say that I haven't yet brewed with adjuncts :) I don't have a problem with using them, but I'm not familiar with how they behave and what flavors and textures that they provide. That's why I am analyzing recipes and trying to get a sense of proportions and reasons for those proportions.

One of the recipes used 6-row, which from my understanding is normally used in "high adjunct" beers to aide conversion. It doesn't seem like something that is 10% corn is a high adjunct beer, so the use of 6-row isn't necessary for diastatic purposes. I generally prefer the flavor of 2-row over 6-row, so for my own recipe I'd probably stick with 2-row.

Of course, I have been know to read way, way, way too much into a beer recipe :mug:
 
Jeffro74 said:
You're going to make me seek out some Little Kings!! When I was in college we used to get a case of those for $13.00... granted they were small, but they were tasty little beers and we saved tons of the bottle caps because they had neat lil' bear claw prints on them.

Thanks for reminding me of the cream ales!!
Click to expand...

Uhhh....you might want to just get a six pack of Little Kings. I use to drink this 25 years ago and then I moved to a different part of the country where it was not available. Found an 8 pack last year (cost around $12) and that I would revisit the past. Well....you just can't go home to the past sometimes because they changed the dang recipe and now produce a much lower quality product in my opinion.
 
maddad said:
I just had a 22 of local brewery cream ale. It tasted like a beer cream soda. I am going back to buy more and see if i can get the brewer to give me some insight. If I nail it, it will soon become the house beer.
Click to expand...
The west coast style of cream ale (no, not BJCP) often DOES involve additions to make it 'creamy' -- things like lactose, vanilla, who knows what else.

The east coast style (BJCP style) was born out of pre-refrigeration days, where it was brewed cool with an ale yeast and then stored cold. What really separates the cream ale from a Kolsch is beyond me.

Little kings is my favorite cream ale. You can find 12 oz tall, skinny cans occasionally. I prefer this to the weird 7 oz bottle. I find little kings to have substantial body and sweetness. I would guess they mash at like 154.
 
progmac said:
The west coast style of cream ale (no, not BJCP) often DOES involve additions to make it 'creamy' -- things like lactose, vanilla, who knows what else.

The east coast style (BJCP style) was born out of pre-refrigeration days, where it was brewed cool with an ale yeast and then stored cold. What really separates the cream ale from a Kolsch is beyond me.

Little kings is my favorite cream ale. You can find 12 oz tall, skinny cans occasionally. I prefer this to the weird 7 oz bottle. I find little kings to have substantial body and sweetness. I would guess they mash at like 154.
Click to expand...

I agree with you regarding Best Coast Cream Ales ;)

I am going to put one together tonight. The head brewer/owner needs some custom tap handles. If I bring him one that I made, maybe I can get him to give me a little info on the recipe. It was that good that I want to replicate it.
 
+1 to the hometown brew!! I never realized Genny had influence outside Rochester. When I'm not drinking homebrew I'll always pick up some Genny. $7.99 for a 12 pack and $14.99 for a case, can't beat it!!
 
We have a local (to RI) Cream Ale that's great too - my father always talks about Genny Cream ale and my extended family's all from upstate.

You've convinced me . . . I was going to do something big, but now this is my next beer. I think I'm going to do 10 gal, with half of the batch spiced (black peppercorn as mentioned, perhaps also coriander & orange peel) for something a little different.
 
I brewed the BCS recipe with flaked corn instead of rice and I really like the liberty hops in that one. It is a nice, approachable style and no matter what you decide on it should be enjoyable. :mug:
 

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