e-Brewery Control Panel Project/Conversion from Propane to Electric

Hi all,

I'm converting my propane/electric RIMS hybrid to an all electric, 220V eBrewery. I've been reading through the control panel builds, reviewing P-J's schematics (top notch work there!) and slowly putting my thoughts together.

I've been brewing for over 5 years and have put together several RIMS systems built up in an ammo can controlling a pump and SS RIMS tube using a PID. That experience has given me the confidence to move ahead with the planning phase of the project.



My first major score is this fiberglass electrical box that will be my control panel.



I have a good friend who is an electrician who located this for me for FREE! It will be a bit challenging working around the holes in the door, but I think many of those can be reused. It's 12 x 18 x 8 and should be big enough to handle everything I'll need.

I have access to 50A so I'll have him bring in that much to my garage via 50A Spa panel to give me GFI protection. I want to be able to run both the eHLT (220v) and RIMS tube (120v) at the same time. I would also like to run the eBK at the same time. This would rarely occur, but could if I was doing a double batch.

I think that puts me pretty close to the limit since my RIMS tube draws about 11.5A and the 5500w/220v elements for the eHLT and eBK each draw 23A. I will need an extra circuit for the 120v.


P-J,
If you would happen to have a schematic for this type of a system, I'd like to engage your services for this project. Please let me know if there is additional information you would need for this schematic. I'm sure I've left out something.

Thank you to all you eBrewers out there who regularly post in this forum. Your posts have given me the education and confidence to move forward. I hope you will have much advice for me as I move forward with this build.

Paul

How about this?

The three elements cannot all be energized at the same time. You have to make choices. However, if you change the 2 5500W elements to 4500W elements, it can be run without issue. (You never stated your kettle sizes that I could see.) Additionally, I think it is important that your RIMS element be powered with 240V so that the total power draw is within reason.

As always - click on the image to see a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")



Hope this helps.

That looks a lot like what I designed and built except for single tier! I also have 50A service but used 4500W element in the boil kettle, 5500W in the HLT, and 5500W run off of 120 in the rims (kinda). only upgrades i want to do in the near future are to put float switches on the grant and in the HLT to just make it less manual, but it works great now!

P-J said:

How about this?

The three elements cannot all be energized at the same time. You have to make choices. However, if you change the 2 5500W elements to 4500W elements, it can be run without issue. (You never stated your kettle sizes that I could see.) Additionally, I think it is important that your RIMS element be powered with 240V so that the total power draw is within reason.


Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

P-J,

Thank you for the reply. Regarding kettles, I'm using 15.5 gallon keggles and usually brew 12 gallon batches. If reducing the 2 5500W elements to 4500W means I can run all 3 at once, then that'll work. With this arrangement I can easily change the RIMS power to 240V. I actually have a 240V 5500W element in there now, but will pull that one out and use a much lower wattage element in the RIMS.

Of course, I could also sell the RIMS system I have and use the $ from it to buy a SS HERMS coil and connectors. I need to weigh the differences of HERMS vs RIMS.

So I need some opinions:

I have a 2 tier, pyramidal type brew rig.



If I go with a HERMS setup I'd put the HEX in the HLT (up on the high shelf).
I would drain strike water from the HLT into the MLT,
Then recirculate the wort from the MLT pump it into the HEX in the HLT, then drain it back to the MLT. Are there extra cleaning issues to worry about?

If I go with a RIMS setup I do what I do now and drain from the MLT, to the pump, through the RIMS tube and back to the MLT.

A RIMS requires 3 elements - HLT (4500w), RIMS(2000w), & BK(4500w).
A HERMS requires 2 elements - HLT(5500w) and BK (5500w).

I brew 12 gallon batches, if I go with a RIMS, will I miss the 1000w I would have in the HLT and BK if I had a HERMS?

why cant you put that extra 1000w in there with rims? they wont all be running at the same time.

jtsims21 said:

why cant you put that extra 1000w in there with rims? they wont all be running at the same time.

Click to expand...

If back to back batches are run, they will be on at some point.

stlbeer,

I'd just go with your current RIMS system and use the 4500W elements. That's more than enough power for your batch size and your set up.

P-J said:

If back to back batches are run, they will be on at some point.

Click to expand...

Yup - the ability to do back to back batches is one of my objective.

I'll go with the 4500w elements.

Thanks P-J!

Damn Paul...You've come a long way in the past couple of years. I need to get out and see your set-up as you are building.

blksabbath said:

Damn Paul...You've come a long way in the past couple of years. I need to get out and see your set-up as you are building.

Click to expand...

Dan, I'll cross-post to the forum at http://stlbrews.org . Also looks like I'm going to have the Tech Topic at the Feb meeting.

P-J said:

How about this?

The three elements cannot all be energized at the same time. You have to make choices. However, if you change the 2 5500W elements to 4500W elements, it can be run without issue. (You never stated your kettle sizes that I could see.) Additionally, I think it is important that your RIMS element be powered with 240V so that the total power draw is within reason.


Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

P-J,

Switch #5 - that's a DPDT switch, right? That allows the pump to continue to run while interlocking the power to the control circuit for the RIMS element? I'm fairly certain of that, but need to doublecheck before ordering parts.

On second thought - the switches from Auber indicate there are 2 sets of contacts. So nothing to worry about?

Thanks!

Paul

subscribed

Can't wait to sede how this works out!

stlbeer said:

P-J,

Switch #5 - that's a DPDT switch, right? That allows the pump to continue to run while interlocking the power to the control circuit for the RIMS element? I'm fairly certain of that, but need to doublecheck before ordering parts.

Thanks!

Paul

Click to expand...

The switches are from Auber Instruments.
Illuminated Pushbutton Switch
They are available in 3 colors and have 2 N/O contacts. That makes them a DPST unit.

Yes, switch #5 is interlocked so that RIMS pump power is supplied whenever the RIMS element power is applied.

Hope this helps.

P-J,

Auber came out with a new PID that has an integrated timer.

1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller w/ Timer [SWA-24X1] - $57.50 : auberins.com, Temperature control solutions for home and industry

It seems pretty much like a 2352 except there is a timer reset and 1 alarm.

Do you think this would integrate pretty easily? I would have to add 1 switch to reset the timer.

Thanks!
Paul

Yes that certainly can be done. You would need to get the PID Model SWA-2451 so that you have SSR output control. (Model SWA-2441 is relay output) You would only need to have one of them as well.

stlbeer said:

P-J,

Auber came out with a new PID that has an integrated timer.

1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller w/ Timer [SWA-24X1] - $57.50 : auberins.com, Temperature control solutions for home and industry

It seems pretty much like a 2352 except there is a timer reset and 1 alarm.

Do you think this would integrate pretty easily? I would have to add 1 switch to reset the timer.

Thanks!
Paul

Click to expand...

Thanks P-J. I'm going to alter my parts list to include this PID/Timer instead of the 2352's. I'll have one for the RIMs and one for the BK.

Scored a Stahlin enclosure! It's roughly 17"x20"x10". Fiberglass and the price was right - FREE!



I also got a couple of heat sinks for the Crydom SSR's I'm using.

Next up - PID/Timers, RTD's, contactors, & switches from Auber. Unless someone knows of an illuminated, maintained switch for less than $11.98.

Breakers from either ebay, Pioneer Breaker, Factorymation, or Automation Direct. These buggers are pricey.

Then I need plugs and receptacles and get the electrician in here to wire up my subpanel that I need to buy....

Finally starting to make some progress on this project.

The holes on the front where the wrong size and location so I filled them up with some Bondo and sanded them nice and smooth.



The four holes around the perimeter of the door are for the door latches.

Now that the holes are filled, I'm trying to determine the best layout for the controls.



From left to right and top to bottom,

HLT PID, then RIMS PID with Alarm for mash complete timer, and then BK PID with alarm for hop additions timer.

Pushbutton maintained switches (green) in the next row down to control the contactors for the heating elements.

Pushbutton maintained switches (white squares now, but maybe yellow pushbutton switches) below the RIMS and BK PIDs for resetting the timers.

Then on the bottom row the pushbutton maintained switches (blue) for the pumps. RIMS on the left and CFC on the right.

The PIDs for the RIMS and BK are the new SWA-2451's from Auber. They have an integrated timer in them. They are set so when the temp of the wort reaches the set point the timer starts to count down, regardless of the temp. When the timer expires the heat is cut and the alarm will sound. The timer requires an NC circuit, so to reset the timer and alarm the switch is turned off (open circuit) and then back on. It's only a single stage timer so it should work very well for the RIMS and ok for the BK. I'll just have to set the times correctly for the hops additions.

No holes are punched yet for these controls. I haven't decided if I should switch the row of element switches with the row of timer reset switches. What do you think? I'm open to ideas and discussing with you guys will help me think through it.

Wahoo! Got some more parts!



And I'm trying out my control panel layout.



Gonna have to move things down a bit, but otherwise, it'll work.

It's going to be a busy weekend.

What SSR's did you end up getting?

NinjaJoe said:

What SSR's did you end up getting?

Click to expand...

I'm going with Crydom SSR's. I'm getting them a local surplus electronics shop for about $10 for the 40 amp version. $12 for the 75 amp version.

I think I've figured out the inside of my control panel.

220V 50A input coming in from the lower left hand side. Ground and Neutral drop out toward the bottom to the terminal blocks. L1 and L2 rise on up to the top to the terminal blocks there.

L1 and L2 then feed into the breakers. Those are:
120V/15A for contractors, PIDs, pumps, illuminated switches, etc
220V/25A for HLT element (4500W)
220V/10A for RIMS tube element (2000W)
220V/25A for BK element (4500W)

All the 220V then flows to the contactors. These are controlled via the green illuminated pushbutton switches on the front of the door which actuate the 120v coil that closes the contacts.
The 110V flows to the red DIN rail mounted terminal blocks. From there it is distributed to fuse blocks and the components.

The wire management strip is there to manage wire flow from the components on the door to the components mounted to the back plane and to keep it all neat and tidy.

I've altered my plans to allow for an additional 120v/15a duplex outlet. This is being used for a future HLT stirrer and an aux power outlet. I.e. - a place to charge my cell phone and/or laptop.

So what do you think?

Paul,

Do you have a link or part number for those terminal blocks?

NinjaJoe said:

Paul,

Do you have a link or part number for those terminal blocks?

Click to expand...

Which ones?

The large ones (marked L1, L2, etc) are Altech CDB6/2. I got them from Mouser and their number is 845-CDB6/2. They had 4 left last I checked. $8.39 ea. You can get these in a bunch of colors, but mouser does not keep them in stock.

The larger ones with the red LED in it is a fuse block. Mouser part number 845-CSFL4UL/110. $3.11

The other terminal blocks are 845-CTS4U-N (grey), 845-CTS4U-N/R (red), and 845-CTS4U-N/Y (yellow).

Mouser has Altechs PDF's of these. I also bought jumpers, end plates, marking tags, and end blocks.

In the search field at Mouser.com, enter any of the part numbers above.

More progress. I got all of the holes cut in the controller cabinet and all of the outlets, heat sinks, ssrs, lights, PIDS, switches, etc all mounted.

The first hole in the box was a big one for the heat sinks. I had no idea fiberglass could dull a jigsaw blade so quickly.


Looks like the heat sinks will fit just fine.


The holes for the 120v and 220v outlets were easy to cut. From left to right, Pump outlets, HLT, RIMS, and BK outlets.


This is the extra outlet I added. The top half is switched from the panel (perhaps to use for an HLT stirrer?) and the bottom half is always hot.


The final mock up. I also added a PID power switch and 3 element activity lights. They'll turn on when that particular element has power. Blingy? Maybe.


Once you cut the first hole, all the other holes are easy...


All front panel components installed.


Backside of the door pic.


That's all for now.

Next weekend - wiring and unit testing.

Paint and some wiring completed.

The painted panel. I used Rustoleum Hammered finish dark bronze. I think it looks real nice.


Start of the wiring. At this point the SSR's are half wired, the aux outlet, and pushbutton switch for it are also wired.


Close-up of SSR and breakers.


Panel with all illuminated pushbutton switches turned on.


Pic of the 120v wiring. There's more here than there is for the 240v components.


I've got some 120v running into the panel so I'm able to test the switches, outlets, PIDs, etc as I go.

Next up will be wiring the PIDs, element pilot lights, alarms, timer resets, 240v outlets, and the Emergency Stop switch. I just realized tonight I had not plan the location for the temperature probe disconnects. I'm losing it.....

Almost done!

Shot of the front of the CP. PID/Timer combos working just fine.


The backside of the front door. There's been a lot of wiring done. Still need to wire up the element pilot lights and test that functionality. Need to get the 220v in first though before I can test that.


Inside the CP. I really like the DIN mounted components. It makes for a clean install. This is mostly cleaned up. Stray wiring there is a hacked extension cord for the 120v to test with and some wires for the 220v pilot light test.


Close up of the wiring bundle. Wire ties are your friend!


So just a couple of other things to finish up. Did you notice the QD's for the temp probes? Neither did I.

Subscribed. Cant see pics right now, but sounds like an interesting build!

Subscribed. Looking great!

kpr121 said:

Subscribed. Cant see pics right now, but sounds like an interesting build!

Click to expand...

Don't know why that is. The links are to pics at Photobucket.

Try this: http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/StLBeer/Brewing and Serving/Control Panel/

stlbeer said:

Don't know why that is. The links are to pics at Photobucket.

Try this: http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/StLBeer/Brewing and Serving/Control Panel/

Click to expand...

Its my work filter, blocks PhotoBucket. I'll check em out tonight at home.

Looks great, awesome work! Loving the pi*s yellow OH CHIT! button.

zeus53219 said:

Looks great, awesome work! Loving the pi*s yellow OH CHIT! button.

Click to expand...

I think i can change that label to "O Chit!"

P-J said:

How about this?

The three elements cannot all be energized at the same time. You have to make choices. However, if you change the 2 5500W elements to 4500W elements, it can be run without issue. (You never stated your kettle sizes that I could see.) Additionally, I think it is important that your RIMS element be powered with 240V so that the total power draw is within reason.

As always - click on the image to see a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")



Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

I’m in the process of building my Ebrew system gathering parts. Quick question on this schematic, would a 60amp circuit allow for 2 5500 W. elements to be powered at the same time?

duckdogs said:

I’m in the process of building my Ebrew system gathering parts. Quick question on this schematic, would a 60amp circuit allow for 2 5500 W. elements to be powered at the same time?

Click to expand...

It could - however - how are you going to GFCI protect your brewery?

What is the size of your HLT and Boil kettles?

DuckDogs -

HD is selling GE GFCI Spa Panels rated for 60amps for $72.45.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...053&langId=-1&keyword=spa+panel&storeId=10051

Protecting yourself is important and not to be left out of your build.

stlbeer said:

DuckDogs -

HD is selling GE GFCI Spa Panels rated for 60amps for $72.45.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...053&langId=-1&keyword=spa+panel&storeId=10051

Protecting yourself is important and not to be left out of your build.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up on the 60A Spa Panel.

I 100% agree, GFCI protection is critical for any electric brew setup.

P-J said:

Thanks for the heads up on the 60A Spa Panel.

I 100% agree, GFCI protection is critical for any electric brew setup.

Click to expand...

Yes, for sure going with the GFI spa panel, and thanks for the link. I was in my local Grovers supply the other day they had them for around 80 (60amp) witch I still thought was a decent deal. My HLT is 30 gallons with a recirculation coil in it for maintaning mash temps. My boil Kettle is 60 gallons. I have 2 mash turns that we swap between depending on how many of us are brewing. My smaller MT handles enough grain for three of us to brew but any more than that we switch to the larger MT. Normally there are only the 3 of us brewing setting up our pre boil volume around 25ish gallons with about a ½ gallon left in the BK.