Idea for a RIMS Heater

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torpshootr

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I am building a home brewery and am considering the addition of a RIMS heater. My preference is to use RIMS vice HERMS. Based on my reading, it seems that the most prevalent argument against the use of RIMS is the possibility of scorching the wort since most RIMS heaters use a water heater element that is in the recirculated wort flow. So, I was thinking that instead of using a water heater element in direct contact with the wort, I could possibly use flexible heating strips wrapped around the outside of the heating chamber. The heater would be controlled via a temperture controller (possibly a Ranco ETC) with its thermistor on the outlet of the chamber.

Has anyone used this method or know of someone who has? If so, does it work? Any lessons learned that I could make use of?

Cheers,
Ken
 
You could use heat tape and such. That would certainly help on the issue of scorching the wort. Anything to increase the surface area of the heating element and limit the surface temp to 200F ish will help.
 
brewman ! said:
Anything to increase the surface area of the heating element and limit the surface temp to 200F ish will help.

My thought was to construct the heater of 1/2" SS pipe. Most RIMS heaters seem to be made of 1 1/2" pipe so that they are large enough to insert the water heater element. With my idea of wrapping the pipe with heating tape, the chamber itself (ie. the pipe) becomes the heating element for the wort. By using smaller size pipe a greater percentage of the wort is maintained in contact with the heating chamber, which should increase its efficiency.

Cheers,
Ken
 
"My thought was to construct the heater of 1/2" SS pipe."

You have to watch that you have enough surface area to transfer the heat. Copper is a much better conductor of heat than SS is.

"Most RIMS heaters seem to be made of 1 1/2" pipe so that they are large enough to insert the water heater element. With my idea of wrapping the pipe with heating tape, the chamber itself (ie. the pipe) becomes the heating element for the wort. By using smaller size pipe a greater percentage of the wort is maintained in contact with the heating chamber, which should increase its efficiency."

The other issue with heat tape is finding stuff that will work to the desired temps (200F?) and having enough pipe to get enough on to get the required wattage. (Power actually...) I wouldn't build anything less than 1 or 1.5KW, especially if you intend to do step mashes.
 
Have you taken a look at the open coil water heater elements that fit inside the pipe as an alternative to external heating elements. These type of heating elements are available from plumbing supply and online sources with wattages to 1750W@120 VAC, and if i remember correctly they used to fit inside 1-1/2" pipe that passed through the water heater tank.
 
kladue said:
Have you taken a look at the open coil water heater elements that fit inside the pipe as an alternative to external heating elements. These type of heating elements are available from plumbing supply and online sources with wattages to 1750W@120 VAC, and if i remember correctly they used to fit inside 1-1/2" pipe that passed through the water heater tank.
I'm either not following you or you are suggesting exactly what I am trying to avoid.

Ken
 
The problem with using a lot of open coil water heater elements is that the power level per square inch is too high and it scorches the wort <if run at full power>

Look on McMasterCarr's website for info. They list watts/in^2 for all their heaters.
 
The open coil heater goes inside a 1-1/2" copper tube with a 2" copper tube around it to contain the wort. This should spread out the output from the open coil heater to the entire length of the inner copper pipe~ 12". As long as the flow is kept around .75-1 gpm the wort temperture should not reach the point of scorching as the surface area and limited wattage should limit liquid temperature rise. Down side of this method is the slow response of heater on state to temperature rise and overshoot after heater is shutdown from residual heat.
 
What kind of coil is it again ? Do you have any pictures ? I'd love to see it.
 
That element is mean to be immersed. I am pretty sure it will burn out if run in open air. I know you aren't planning to run it in open air, but it will still be hot between the inner and outer copper tubes. I suspect it would burn out.

You could use kiln wire though.

The other thing you need is enough surface area.
 
The element is designed to run dry inside of a pipe through the hotwater heater tank, as in the aluminum rv water heaters and glass lined steel water heater tanks. This style of heater has been around a long time, but due to the limited wattage mostly seen in 10-20 gallon water heaters for under counter installation.
 
Torpshootr,

what was your reason for going for RIMS over HERMS?

Looks to me like you want to avoid using the HLT to heat the wort for some reason.

Have you thought about using a seperate heat exchanger? I use a 2l waterbath with a short coil of 8mm copper and an electric element and it works great.

The coil of copper carries the wort through the waterbath. The temperature of the wort exiting the heat exchanger (via a PID controller and the electric element) controls the temperature of the waterbath. So, as the wort gets too cool the waterbath heats up to bring it back up to the desired temperature.:)

In my opinion it gives the immediacy of RIMS (due to the waterbath only being 2 litres rather than 5+ gallons) with the security of not having the element in direct contact with the wort like a HERMS.:ban:

/Phil.
 
Seveneer said:
Torpshootr,

what was your reason for going for RIMS over HERMS?

Looks to me like you want to avoid using the HLT to heat the wort for some reason.
Phil,
You are exactly correct, I am trying to avoid using my HLT to heat the wort. Several reasons:

1. I want to avoid putting additional holes in my HLT thereby avoiding the risk of screwing it up or creating the possibility of leaks in it. from this perspective a standalone heater seems like a better idea.

2. I have read that HERMS systems tend to have slow response due to the small temperature change between the water in the HLT and the wort passing through the coil.

3. I would prefer to have my recirc pump operate continuously and control the temperature of the recirculating wort by controlling the heater. With a HERMS it seems that you have to control the temperature of the recirculating wort by turning the pump on and off.

Seveneer said:
Have you thought about using a seperate heat exchanger? I use a 2l waterbath with a short coil of 8mm copper and an electric element and it works great.

The coil of copper carries the wort through the waterbath. The temperature of the wort exiting the heat exchanger (via a PID controller and the electric element) controls the temperature of the waterbath. So, as the wort gets too cool the waterbath heats up to bring it back up to the desired temperature.:)

In my opinion it gives the immediacy of RIMS (due to the waterbath only being 2 litres rather than 5+ gallons) with the security of not having the element in direct contact with the wort like a HERMS.:ban:

/Phil.

I have seen this idea incorporated into several RIMS designs and it is my fallback plan - for all of the reasons that you cite. It certainly seems to address all three of the considerations that I listed above.

Do you happen to have a link to info on/pictures of your heat exchanger? I'm a big fan of not having to recreate the wheel if I don't have to.

Thanks for your response.

Ken
 
Hi Ken,

have a look at my page linked from my signature. There's a page dedicated to the heat exchanger. It's not as comprehensive as I'd like but I'll happily answer any other questions you have.

Regards,
/Phil.
 
http://www.hiheat.com/ has numerous flexible heater that might work for wrapping about a copper tube or whatever. I thought about having one in my mash tun and slowly circulate the the mash to remove the possibility of scorching. Never got around to buying one but spoke to an engineers about design specs.
Jeffrey
 
Those are pretty interesting heat pads. 1200 watts for $111 5 watts per in^2 is fairly gentle heating. IIRC, the hot water heater elements are 30 watts/in^2.

For comparison, a 1500 watt stove 6" diameter stove element is 53 watts per in^2, but then the pot base spreads out the heat a bit.

I'm getting my data from here:
http://www.hiheat.com/pdf/HHI_cat_heaters.pdf

Take a SS pot, wrap it with a few heaters and the contents will stay pretty warm. I suppose no better than a well insulated cooler. Add steam injection for doing step mashes. Stir it once in a while to prevent perimeter hot spots. Recirculate the wort a bit without heating it, to clarify it and to prevent thermal stratification. Could be the perfect mash environment.
 
You should use nichrome wire..

I am currently working on designing a RIMS tube. I also thought it would be a great idea to use an external heating source. I would wrap nichrome wire around a 1/2" X 12" SS pipe with an elbow on the inlet and a tee on the outlet. Use a 1/2" K type thermocouple and a Auber PID running the RIMS.

After hours and days of research and design I'm still deciding on which route I will take. Using an external heating source or going with a most common used internal water heater element. I'm basically stuck in the middle of my two designs.
 
You should use nichrome wire..

I am currently working on designing a RIMS tube. I also thought it would be a great idea to use an external heating source. I would wrap nichrome wire around a 1/2" X 12" SS pipe with an elbow on the inlet and a tee on the outlet. Use a 1/2" K type thermocouple and a Auber PID running the RIMS.

After hours and days of research and design I'm still deciding on which route I will take. Using an external heating source or going with a most common used internal water heater element. I'm basically stuck in the middle of my two designs.

What did you decide on? I was looking at nichrome as a possible option as well.
 
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