4 days and no sweet bubble action

I've seen a lot of threads like this, but not for four days without airlock activity. It's a continental pilsner lager. 1 pack brewferm lager yeast just rehydrated. Sat at 47-50 for three days and now I have it at 56. I didn't take an OG until the next morning after it all mixed well and got 1.010? I think I still measured top off water or something...

Is this in a bucket? What was your starting gravity (or estimate)?

I believe your temp was too low, the northern brewer site list the range for the yeast at 50-59. Did you move it today? I imagine you were a bit cold before.

Lagers usually have a bit longer lag, but 4 days is probably enough. Have you checked for other signs of fermentation, like bubbles in the beer, gravity change, krausen, CO2 blanket?

If you are using a bucket, the airlock is NOT a good indicator of fermentation. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the airlock isn't a great indicator of fermentation in most any case. Air leaks and temerature changes can cause misreadings.

Homercidal said:

Lagers usually have a bit longer lag, but 4 days is probably enough. Have you checked for other signs of fermentation, like bubbles in the beer, gravity change, krausen, CO2 blanket?

If you are using a bucket, the airlock is NOT a good indicator of fermentation. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the airlock isn't a great indicator of fermentation in most any case. Air leaks and temerature changes can cause misreadings.

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This... Air leaks in buckets are pretty common.

Here she is. I'm new to lagers. Is there usually a Kreusen on top?

Sorry thought this was a IPA!! Here is a lager fermenting. If yours did not look like this something is wrong.

kirbykollege said:

Here she is. I'm new to lagers. Is there usually a Kreusen on top?

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I see a load of yeast in the bottom which would make me thing the fermentation is complete and the "kreusen" has fallen back in.

It looked vary clear also,,, it should have looked cloudy for a while as the CO2 mixed things up...

I would take a gravity reading or taste it to see if it is "sweet"...

DPB

DPBISME said:

I see a load of yeast in the bottom which would make me thing the fermentation is complete and the "kreusen" has fallen back in.

It looked vary clear also,,, it should have looked cloudy for a while as the CO2 mixed things up...

I would take a gravity reading or taste it to see if it is "sweet"...

DPB

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The krausen you would think would have left a ring.

That looks like settled trub on the bottom without any yeast to me. My guess is that it hasn't started yet

kirbykollege said:

I didn't take an OG until the next morning after it all mixed well and got 1.010? I think I still measured top off water or something...

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I think you're saying you measured gravity within 24 hrs of pitching your yeast. If so, a 1.010 "o.g." Seems low... Wondering if your wort & top off water was measured correctly? What was the recipe for the wort?

You should gently stir it up good to make sure the yeast and wort is integrated together. Some lager yeast don't like temps below 50 from what I read. (I am not as familiar with lager yeast) so maybe it's just behind schedule from the cold start. Lager yeast can take a bit to show signs.

Definitely hasn't had any Kreusen yet. Still is very sweet too. this is a brewers best recipe kit from a liquor store too. There's no telling how old it is. I shoulda gone with NB.

kirbykollege said:

Definitely hasn't had any Kreusen yet. Still is very sweet too. this is a brewers best recipe kit from a liquor store too. There's no telling how old it is. I shoulda gone with NB.

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Possible old and or bad yeast?

Has anyone ever heard of it just not fermenting... Ever?

I vote for bad yeast.

I've never brewed a lager, but one of my understandings was that it is "bottom fermenting" as opposed to "top fermenting" ales. Maybe it is fermenting now and just not offgassing. I wouldn't "fix" anything without taking another gravity sample and determining for sure that it isn't doing anything.

Agree that another gravity reading would be good, but if og was 1.010, not sure it's going any lower. Guess we're assuming that reading was bogus?

freisste said:

I've never brewed a lager, but one of my understandings was that it is "bottom fermenting" as opposed to "top fermenting" ales. Maybe it is fermenting now and just not offgassing. I wouldn't "fix" anything without taking another gravity sample and determining for sure that it isn't doing anything.

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Nah, they still make a krausen.

beerluvva said:

Agree that another gravity reading would be good, but if og was 1.010, not sure it's going any lower. Guess we're assuming that reading was bogus?

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It looks like you can even see the poorly mixed layers in the picture., which could lead to a false low reading. I vote for bad yeast.

pabloj13 said:

Nah, they still make a krausen.

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Ok, thanks.

beerluvva said:

Agree that another gravity reading would be good, but if og was 1.010, not sure it's going any lower. Guess we're assuming that reading was bogus?

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I'd give it a very gentle stir to make sure it is homogeneous and to stir the yeast up a little. Check gravity after that. Then check again in a day or two.

kirbykollege said:

I've seen a lot of threads like this, but not for four days without airlock activity. It's a continental pilsner lager. 1 pack brewferm lager yeast just rehydrated. Sat at 47-50 for three days and now I have it at 56. I didn't take an OG until the next morning after it all mixed well and got 1.010? I think I still measured top off water or something...

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Certainly your 1.010 reading must be off for some reason. Did you partial boil and then top off at the end with water? Did you aerate in any way? Lager yeast are generally more needy requiring higher pitching rates and more optimal conditions, if you didn't aerate this could easily cause both your long lag time and your 1.010 gravity reading...

So I brought the temp up to 70f and this morning (day 5) it looks like this. Still no Kreusen formation on top though or airlock activity.

I'm not sure if that's yeast or an effect from the DME. Also, the kit called for all LME but half was dry. Not sure if someone just stuffed whatever they could find in the box or what.

kirbykollege said:

So I brought the temp up to 70f and this morning (day 5) it looks like this. Still no Kreusen formation on top though or airlock activity.

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There's really nothing anyone can help you with unless you describe your rehydration and aeration procedure. DME or LME wouldn't make any difference to the yeast; they aren't doing their thing for some reason. Give some more details so we can help...

Rehydrated at room temp 69f for an hour. Shook my carboy vigorously for a while and that's all. Weird thing is that I stirred it a bit today and checked the gravity and still got .010. And it has no hint of sugar. Could it have possibly fermented completely and settled within that first night?

I have a stout in secondary that took 5 days to start to ferment. I was at 52 degrees. Once it started bubbling it took off. I'm new to brewing but finding that patience is quite useful. I would let it set and wait for the bubbles.

kirbykollege said:

Rehydrated at room temp 69f for an hour. Shook my carboy vigorously for a while and that's all. Weird thing is that I stirred it a bit today and checked the gravity and still got .010. And it has no hint of sugar. Could it have possibly fermented completely and settled within that first night?

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A lager fermenting down to 1.010 in one day is very unlikely. Take a sample and taste it to be sure, but something is definitely wrong. Either your measurement is off or you just brewed a 1.010 wort. I don't see any signs of fermentation, and 5 days lag is way long even for a lager...

Houston, we have a bubble. After 6 days darnit! I can finally see Kreusen formation and bubble activity from the yeast cake. This is my 7th batch and I think I learned a valuable lesson: make a starter and spend your dough on quality fresh yeast.

kirbykollege said:

Definitely hasn't had any Kreusen yet. Still is very sweet too. this is a brewers best recipe kit from a liquor store too. There's no telling how old it is. I shoulda gone with NB.

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kirbykollege said:

Rehydrated at room temp 69f for an hour. Shook my carboy vigorously for a while and that's all. Weird thing is that I stirred it a bit today and checked the gravity and still got .010. And it has no hint of sugar. Could it have possibly fermented completely and settled within that first night?

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Does not compute. No, it didn't ferment in one night as you indicated it still tasted sweet after the first overnight. Now it doesn't taste sweet? Does it taste like beer?

kirbykollege said:

Houston, we have a bubble. After 6 days darnit! I can finally see Kreusen formation and bubble activity from the yeast cake. This is my 7th batch and I think I learned a valuable lesson: make a starter and spend your dough on quality fresh yeast.

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This goes x10 on lagers. Check one of the pitch rate calculators on line like MrMalty.com and you'll see the recommended number if yeast cells is way higher for lagers. I'm glad you have some activity but you're not out of the woods yet. Sounds like you underpitched and under aerated, so that ferment is going to likely be long and slow, and not reach a very high attenuation. keep it at what ever temperature you finally got it going at and eak it up a few degrees as it slows down...

pabloj13 said:

Does not compute. No, it didn't ferment in one night as you indicated it still tasted sweet after the first overnight. Now it doesn't taste sweet? Does it taste like beer?

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Nothing about this beer makes sense. The bottom of the carboy is darker so there's a possibility the extract has separated from top off water. Other than that I can't explain why I'm getting a low OG and a more vigorous fermentation despite that.

kirbykollege said:

I've seen a lot of threads like this, but not for four days without airlock activity. It's a continental pilsner lager. 1 pack brewferm lager yeast just rehydrated. Sat at 47-50 for three days and now I have it at 56. I didn't take an OG until the next morning after it all mixed well and got 1.010? I think I still measured top off water or something...

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I used brewferm lager yeast in a batch of Kolsch, it took 6 days for airlock activity. It finally took off at 57 degrees and activity lasted for 4 days. Beer was excellent. My next attempt at a lager was with Fermentis w34/70, with airlock activity the next day. Both were pitched warm and cooled to recommended temps. I will use the fermentis from now on.

Hoppyending said:

The krausen you would think would have left a ring.

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No argument there... but that looks like more than the trube to me...

Test it.

If still sweet you need to decide what kind of yeast you want to toss on it.

If it tastes of MOLD or something else I would think you might have to toss it (Let's hope not).