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Vox

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So last night I racked my cider to get ready to bottle UpstateMike's caramel apple cider and I once again have come to a dilemma. To brew or not to brew. Any time I have an empty carboy, I feel as if it's a crime to let it sit there empty and with no purpose in life. After I bottle my BlackBerry cider next week, I will have another empty carboy and six cases of recently bottled cider sitting around.
I feel compelled to try yet another new recipe such as Graham's English cider or several others, but I keep having to buy bottles since the stuff has to bottle age. In an apartment and we don't guzzle the stuff fast so kegging isn't in the cards til we get a house next year. My buddy brews beer, drinks it, and has his bottles empty by the time he's ready to bottle his next beer. Does anyone else have this phobia of empty carboys?
 
Not so much a phobia, but I felt like you about the waste of an empty carboy, especially given the age time needed in ciders.

However, let me offer some advice from a guy who went the way you suggest (overboard.) I live in a small apartment in NYC and for about a year I have never had an empty carboy, and I have 3 of them. Well, I am now sitting on roughly 55 gallons of different ciders and skeeter pees (hard lemonade), mostly in bottles and I don't do all that much drinking, so I have tons of stuff to get through. Not to mention bottles in my closets, living room, kitchen, ect. You would think I am an alcoholic if you came over!

To make matters worse, I recently tried a few of the cider bottles that have been sitting for more than a year, and while still drinkable, they defiantly don't taste quite as good as they did 6 months ago. Due to the quantity of everything, I won't get around to drinking them all for some time. I think I might have to pour some out.

If I could do it over, I would have taken it slower and enjoyed what I had rather than full steam ahead brewing and now finding bottles of mediocre cider or having to dump full bottles.
 
Yeah. I may wait a month or two to start another cider or try beer since that doesn't need aging. Beer extract kits are more expensive than cider though. I may make a couple more one gallon batches of mead or melomel since those can just sit in my one gallon glass jugs for a while not needing to be bottled. Thanks for the warning lol. Luckily, I store whatever I'm bottle conditioning at my parents' house lol.
 
DoctorWho said:
Not so much a phobia, but I felt like you about the waste of an empty carboy, especially given the age time needed in ciders.

However, let me offer some advice from a guy who went the way you suggest (overboard.) I live in a small apartment in NYC and for about a year I have never had an empty carboy, and I have 3 of them. Well, I am now sitting on roughly 55 gallons of different ciders and skeeter pees (hard lemonade), mostly in bottles and I don't do all that much drinking, so I have tons of stuff to get through. Not to mention bottles in my closets, living room, kitchen, ect. You would think I am an alcoholic if you came over!

To make matters worse, I recently tried a few of the cider bottles that have been sitting for more than a year, and while still drinkable, they defiantly don't taste quite as good as they did 6 months ago. Due to the quantity of everything, I won't get around to drinking them all for some time. I think I might have to pour some out.

If I could do it over, I would have taken it slower and enjoyed what I had rather than full steam ahead brewing and now finding bottles of mediocre cider or having to dump full bottles.

What borough of NYC? I was born and raised in S.I.
 
I am in Manhattan, Morningside area. Really love it here and there is a home-brew club that meets at 96th street that I am so glad I found out about- "Dive Bar Homebrew Symposium!"

If you have another place to store your bottles, I say do it up. Especially with the meads/melomels and their time frame.

I was really disappointed to find the off flavors in my older bottles, but maybe it had something to do with my technique as I only started brewing a little over a year.

Good luck to ya!

PS. I just started a 5.5 gal batch of UpstateMike's caramel apple cider tonight. Looks like a great recipe. May not backsweeten quite as much as I like my ciders on the dryer side. Let me know how your's turns out!
 
It is easy to go overboard, however it does take a while to create an adequate pipeline. The normal aging time for mead and ciders is a minimum of 6 months to years. I would like my higher abv ciders to be aged closer to a year. Unfortunately I drink it too fast. I made 35 gallons last fall and it is nearly gone already. I have around 8 carboys and 5 glass gallon jugs and 8 cornies, I don't try to keep them full but I like the flexibility of having multiple carboys of various sizes. I have several full with meads that are going to age for another year or more before bottling. I have gone to making smaller batches to increase the variety in my wine racks.
 
DoctorWho said:
I am in Manhattan, Morningside area. Really love it here and there is a home-brew club that meets at 96th street that I am so glad I found out about- "Dive Bar Homebrew Symposium!"

If you have another place to store your bottles, I say do it up. Especially with the meads/melomels and their time frame.

I was really disappointed to find the off flavors in my older bottles, but maybe it had something to do with my technique as I only started brewing a little over a year.

Good luck to ya!

PS. I just started a 5.5 gal batch of UpstateMike's caramel apple cider tonight. Looks like a great recipe. May not backsweeten quite as much as I like my ciders on the dryer side. Let me know how your's turns out!

Nice. I will keep you updated on the caramel apple cider. Debating on making Graham's English cider or maybe a cyser or something that can sit in the carboy for a few months til my bottles come available. Really looking for a Crispin or Angry Orchard clone.
 
I still think of myself as I newbie brewer so having an empty carboy really hurts as I have no "science" experiment brewing. I started my first cider just out of spite since I just moved, haven't explored the lhbs' in the area, $2.66 for a 2 qt. of mott's natural and the ease of making cider. This first batch I didn't use anything other than mott's natural cider, brown sugar and S-05. I'm more looking to see how things work out just so I can brew something so I didn't care to use pectin enzyme and plan on apple juice concentrate to bottle carb. I never tasted a cider before trying this so after having a Strongbow I really hope this comes out similar, but of course more hazy. Can't really beat making a 4 gal batch for under $20.
 
I have a bigger phobia of an empty keg. I've got a cider in the secondary, and half a keg of cider in the fridge right now. I'm about to start a hard lemonade recipe (skeeter pee) that I'll back-sweeten and keg. It's supposed to taste great with no aging.
 
So last night I racked my cider to get ready to bottle UpstateMike's caramel apple cider and I once again have come to a dilemma. To brew or not to brew. Any time I have an empty carboy, I feel as if it's a crime to let it sit there empty and with no purpose in life. After I bottle my BlackBerry cider next week, I will have another empty carboy and six cases of recently bottled cider sitting around.
I feel compelled to try yet another new recipe such as Graham's English cider or several others, but I keep having to buy bottles since the stuff has to bottle age. In an apartment and we don't guzzle the stuff fast so kegging isn't in the cards til we get a house next year. My buddy brews beer, drinks it, and has his bottles empty by the time he's ready to bottle his next beer. Does anyone else have this phobia of empty carboys?

BREW IT! :mug: :ban: :rockin:
 
phatspade said:
I still think of myself as I newbie brewer so having an empty carboy really hurts as I have no "science" experiment brewing. I started my first cider just out of spite since I just moved, haven't explored the lhbs' in the area, $2.66 for a 2 qt. of mott's natural and the ease of making cider. This first batch I didn't use anything other than mott's natural cider, brown sugar and S-05. I'm more looking to see how things work out just so I can brew something so I didn't care to use pectin enzyme and plan on apple juice concentrate to bottle carb. I never tasted a cider before trying this so after having a Strongbow I really hope this comes out similar, but of course more hazy. Can't really beat making a 4 gal batch for under $20.

Try angry orchard and Crispin if you can find them.
 
roadymi said:
It is easy to go overboard, however it does take a while to create an adequate pipeline. The normal aging time for mead and ciders is a minimum of 6 months to years. I would like my higher abv ciders to be aged closer to a year. Unfortunately I drink it too fast. I made 35 gallons last fall and it is nearly gone already. I have around 8 carboys and 5 glass gallon jugs and 8 cornies, I don't try to keep them full but I like the flexibility of having multiple carboys of various sizes. I have several full with meads that are going to age for another year or more before bottling. I have gone to making smaller batches to increase the variety in my wine racks.

I have a six gallon and a three gallon carboy, a Mr. Beer barrel cider version, and four one gallon glass cider jugs. Tempted to try a couple meads or melomels in the one gallons. Contemplated buying another six gallon and a three gallon. It's really just never having bottles available and needing to buy more due to length of bottle conditioning. Have you tried grahams English cider recipe or do you know of a good recipe like crispin, angry orchard, or strongbow? Apfelwein is too dry. Trying my first go at backsweetening this weekend with upstatemike's caramel apple.
 
overpunch said:
I have a bigger phobia of an empty keg. I've got a cider in the secondary, and half a keg of cider in the fridge right now. I'm about to start a hard lemonade recipe (skeeter pee) that I'll back-sweeten and keg. It's supposed to taste great with no aging.

Hmm. Heard of skeeter pee many times on here, but never considered making it. My girl might like it.
 
I just had angry orchard last night and it was good. The crisp apple aftertaste is excellent but I really like the dryness of strongbow.
 
phatspade said:
I just had angry orchard last night and it was good. The crisp apple aftertaste is excellent but I really like the dryness of strongbow.

Strongbow is what got me turned on to cider, but Crispin is very crisp and clean. They were just bought out by Coors and now the twelve packs have a recipe for a blue velvet on the side which is Crispin and Blue Moon (also Coors). Angry Orchard just has a nice all around feel. Strongbow and Magners aka baumers are what I've been drinking more so lately. Woodchuck's limited edition Belgian cider is good too if you have a total wine store near.
 
Hmm. Heard of skeeter pee many times on here, but never considered making it. My girl might like it.

Skeeter Pee is a great summer (or anytime:cross:) drink. Cheap, easy to brew, 11% ABV that you can't taste at all, and tastes great with no ageing.

I have been making it for a while now, and its easy to tweak flavours by adding frozen fruit in the secondary.

You should check it out, but due to the level of sugar needed for back sweetening you will have to pasteurize much like the caramel apple hard cider.
 
DoctorWho said:
Skeeter Pee is a great summer (or anytime:cross:) drink. Cheap, easy to brew, 11% ABV that you can't taste at all, and tastes great with no ageing.

I have been making it for a while now, and its easy to tweak flavours by adding frozen fruit in the secondary.

You should check it out, but due to the level of sugar needed for back sweetening you will have to pasteurize much like the caramel apple hard cider.

Gonna make 5 gallons this weekend maybe. Man I need more bottles.
 
Kashue said:
Make some straight up wine. That'll take you a lot longer and you can drink up your backlog. :D

Wine kits at my lhbs are like 150.00
 
DoctorWho said:
Skeeter Pee is a great summer (or anytime:cross:) drink. Cheap, easy to brew, 11% ABV that you can't taste at all, and tastes great with no ageing.

I have been making it for a while now, and its easy to tweak flavours by adding frozen fruit in the secondary.

You should check it out, but due to the level of sugar needed for back sweetening you will have to pasteurize much like the caramel apple hard cider.

How long does this take start to finish?
 
Vox said:
Wine kits at my lhbs are like 150.00

Wine kit??? I'm new and even I know that you buy some straight up grape juice, add sugar till your hydrometer says "desert wine" add a wine yeast and let it go! Shouldn't be too hard to make a wine and let it sit.....
 
snortwheeze said:
Wine kit??? I'm new and even I know that you buy some straight up grape juice, add sugar till your hydrometer says "desert wine" add a wine yeast and let it go! Shouldn't be too hard to make a wine and let it sit.....

Not hard to make wine. A good wine may be a different story.
 
How long does this take start to finish?

For Skeeter Pee (thanks Lon) it's about a month from start to finish, if you use fining agents or don't mind drinking it slightly hazy.

I let it clear naturally, so that takes about 3 weeks extra, so just a 2 months.

I highly recommend it!
 
So how long should I let a woodchuck clone age in the bottles before pasteurizing?
Sorry, but still kinda new to brewing in general.
 
alpha224 said:
So how long should I let a woodchuck clone age in the bottles before pasteurizing?
Sorry, but still kinda new to brewing in general.

Only let the bottles sit long enough for the carbonation to get to your preferred level and then pasturise.
Once its pasteurized you can let it age for as long as you want without fear of exploding bottles (provided you did it properly).

Just gotta remember, the biggest reason you're pasteurizing is to kill the yeast and prevent them from producing more carbon dioxide, not (just) taste or anthing else like that. Although one of the other benefits of pasteurizing is that the yeast won't consume any further sugar once its dead so the sweetness level shouldn't change.
 
Always a dilemma, empty carboys just look so lonely without precious cider bubbling away. However, I would say two things. If you just wasnt to expirement with a quick brew and something new, go for it. But don't tire up your bottles for long because... Secondly, it is finally apple season again. While any old apple juice will make alcohol, the best apples for cider usually ripen later. That means get ready to start some batches in the mid fall. If you have access to the fresh stuff from a local orchard fill those empty carboys in october-december depending upon where you live. At the very least try to leave one carboy empty for a true batch from good raw cider. Remember that the best spokes for cider are generally the worst to eat (plenty of books on apple types).

Regardless what you do, don't let those thing sit empty for more than a few months our the wife will take over you basement cidery/brewery!

Make sure you have an outlet for all your work. You can only give so much away and drink so much yourself. So, dare I say, show a little constraint...but not much. I still found a way to brew and bottle ~50 gallons of cidery last season, and am busy planning this years batches.
 
Greghark said:
Always a dilemma, empty carboys just look so lonely without precious cider bubbling away. However, I would say two things. If you just wasnt to expirement with a quick brew and something new, go for it. But don't tire up your bottles for long because... Secondly, it is finally apple season again. While any old apple juice will make alcohol, the best apples for cider usually ripen later. That means get ready to start some batches in the mid fall. If you have access to the fresh stuff from a local orchard fill those empty carboys in october-december depending upon where you live. At the very least try to leave one carboy empty for a true batch from good raw cider. Remember that the best spokes for cider are generally the worst to eat (plenty of books on apple types).

Regardless what you do, don't let those thing sit empty for more than a few months our the wife will take over you basement cidery/brewery!

Make sure you have an outlet for all your work. You can only give so much away and drink so much yourself. So, dare I say, show a little constraint...but not much. I still found a way to brew and bottle ~50 gallons of cidery last season, and am busy planning this years batches.

I've only used store bought juice so far. I drove past Julian, CA and thought about stopping for fresh cider as they are a town known for cider. They in fact make Julian American Cider there that you can find at Whole Foods.

What questions should I ask the local orchards here in AZ? I know uv pasteurized is preferable. I thought I had read most orchards just make their cider from a mix of apples and can't confirm the exact types in any given batch of cider. I do have a book on the different types of apples and their flavors for cider. What else is good to ask?

On the bright side, the pub I go to regularly is going to give me cases of bottles whenever I want so I'm only limited by how many I can store lol.
 
DoctorWho said:
For Skeeter Pee (thanks Lon) it's about a month from start to finish, if you use fining agents or don't mind drinking it slightly hazy.

I let it clear naturally, so that takes about 3 weeks extra, so just a 2 months.

I highly recommend it!

Do you use a degas-er of some nature? I contemplated making this in a bucket as the primary so I can stir it with something rather than buying a degas-ing drill attachment if I used a carboy as my primary since I don't need it for cider making.
 
Do you use a degas-er of some nature? I contemplated making this in a bucket as the primary so I can stir it with something rather than buying a degas-ing drill attachment if I used a carboy as my primary since I don't need it for cider making.

I'm drinking an 8 week old skeeter pee right now. It's good!

I bought one of the degas-ers, but you don't have to. I think it helps, though, and I find myself using it for lots of things: stirring sugar into the skeeter pee later, mixing cider ingredients, aireating beer (instead of shaking it), even stirring my powdered sanitizer until it dissolves (and sanitizing the degassing wand at the same time). It's been a useful tool.
 
tracyt1800 said:
I'm drinking an 8 week old skeeter pee right now. It's good!

I bought one of the degas-ers, but you don't have to. I think it helps, though, and I find myself using it for lots of things: stirring sugar into the skeeter pee later, mixing cider ingredients, aireating beer (instead of shaking it), even stirring my powdered sanitizer until it dissolves (and sanitizing the degassing wand at the same time). It's been a useful tool.

Ok. I will contemplate getting one
 
Do you use a degas-er of some nature? I contemplated making this in a bucket as the primary so I can stir it with something rather than buying a degas-ing drill attachment if I used a carboy as my primary since I don't need it for cider making.

If you wanna stay low budget you can fashion a homemade degasser from a heavy duty plastic hanger with a good heat source to soften the plastic for bending.

something shaped like this.....just fashion so it will fit into the top of the carboy


----------\___/
 
roadymi said:
If you wanna stay low budget you can fashion a homemade degasser from a heavy duty plastic hanger with a good heat source to soften the plastic for bending.

something shaped like this.....just fashion so it will fit into the top of the carboy

----------\___/

I did read that someone used a hanger. Not sure how that shape would fit in the carboy. Maybe I could just use a brew bucket and degas with a soak or stirring paddle.
 

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