WTF How hard is it to put on a lug nut??

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jgln

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Just got back from having my tires balanced and again mechanic had trouble getting 2 lug nuts off and both the studs and nuts are ruined. The last place to work on my truck was a Dodge dealership where I had brakes, tire rotation and tune up done. I think more likely the person who put them on did this. Now to top that off they not only balanced my tires they rotated them back again. I specifically said "I just had them rotated, so I guess they need to be balanced since the bouncing just started, don't rotate them again". I am taking it back to the dealership insisting they did it since I now need new studs anyway.

This is the second time the dealership cross threaded my lug nuts and at least twice on my previous Dodge car and this is different dealerships. Don't they teach these guys to turn them a thread or two by hand first instead of just going straight for the air gun?? HTF am I to know if I am going to be able to get them off myself if I get a flat?? :mad:

Anyone here ever work at a place like this and can you explain to me why it is so hard to put a lug nut on properly??? How many lug nuts and studs do these guys ruin in a day??
 
I doubt they were cross threaded, but possibly.

My guess is they threw them on the ground when they took them off at the dealership, and then just crammed them back on without blowing out the sand that got in them from flying onto the floor.

When I do wheel work, I not only put the lugnuts someplace where sand doesn't get into them, I put a tiny bit of oil on the threads before I reassemble. When I start the lugnut, I know if anything is in the threads or it's not on straight by the FEEL. THEY probably just load it into an impact gun socket and scream it back on the stud.

Blame it on book times to do the job vs. how fast the guy CAN throw it back together and make a bunch of money getting to another job-that's how mechanics get big checks.

I love stories like this-I do my own brake work and most other remove and replace jobs.:D
 
Henry Hill said:
I doubt they were cross threaded, but possibly.

My guess is they threw them on the ground when they took them off at the dealership, and then just crammed them back on without blowing out the sand that got in them from flying onto the floor.

When I do wheel work, I not only put the lugnuts someplace where sand doesn't get into them, I put a tiny bit of oil on the threads before I reassemble.

Blame it on book times to do the job vs. how fast the guy CAN throw it back together and make a bunch of money getting to another job-that's how mechanics get big checks.

I love stories like this-I do my own brake work and most other remove and replace jobs.:D
Click to expand...

I used to do my own too but between the time I want to spend doing something else (I usually drop off/pick up) and being able to actually afford to pay someone I usually don't anymore. Having second thoughts now though. Yeah, I too add some oil when I put lugs back on if I do my own work. Always wondered why mechanics don't, sometimes the friction between the threads reminds me of chalk on a chalkboard.
 
Henry Hill said:
I doubt they were cross threaded, but possibly.

My guess is they threw them on the ground when they took them off at the dealership, and then just crammed them back on without blowing out the sand that got in them from flying onto the floor.

When I do wheel work, I not only put the lugnuts someplace where sand doesn't get into them, I put a tiny bit of oil on the threads before I reassemble. When I start the lugnut, I know if anything is in the threads or it's not on straight by the FEEL. THEY probably just load it into an impact gun socket and scream it back on the stud.

Blame it on book times to do the job vs. how fast the guy CAN throw it back together and make a bunch of money getting to another job-that's how mechanics get big checks.


I love stories like this-I do my own brake work and most other remove and replace jobs.:D
Click to expand...

I was thinking they put the lug in the socket, place on the end of the stud and pull the trigger.
 
Henry Hill said:
Pay now or pay later. How much is TWO trips to the dealer worth in YOUR TIME, when you can get good parts cheaper than dealer OEM's? ;)
Click to expand...

I did read what you wrote, I mean I was thinking they don't even like up the threads let alone worry about sand buggering up the threads. Can’t take but 1 minute extra to make sure the threads are lined up and going on without resistance before using the gun.

If this is a common occurrence and it sounds like it is, how can a shop manager not realize this is bad customer service and business practice and not mention this constantly to the mechanics that lug nuts and studs are as important as any other part of the maintenance? I only went to the dealership because I had an intermittent idle and stalling problem and I thought they would be best trained and equipped to troubleshoot it. While it was there I figured why not have to other stuff done.
 
it could be that but not all people know that the lugs are a softer metal then the nuts, and if your gun is full blast and you do not have a torque stick on then you can stretch the lug it self. thus being said take your crap ass american and go buy a toyota cause it is really made in america not canada or mexico, america, or if your one of those people by a honda
 
Worked at Sears tire as a college student, and I can tell you the main answer is getting paid by the peice. You go as fast as you can because the more you do the more you get paid and the less the manager yells at you that customers are waiting. Also starting lug nuts by hand and the gunning them on will not stop the threads from getting crossed everytime. If the gun is set high enough and going fast enough you can f'up the threads just as well. I always request all lug nuts to be put on by hand even though I know it probably won't happen.
 
To the OP,
Last time I changed a lug (1984 dodge 600,) I just had to pound the lug out the back and tap the new one in.

This was, of course, after I learned to thread the lug nut on by hand before using the air gun...

B
 
I am a tech and I never start lug nuts/bolts with an impact, always by hand. It is too easy with the course threads on them to cross thread one.
 
whalenutz said:
it could be that but not all people know that the lugs are a softer metal then the nuts, and if your gun is full blast and you do not have a torque stick on then you can stretch the lug it self. thus being said take your crap ass american and go buy a toyota cause it is really made in america not canada or mexico, america, or if your one of those people by a honda
Click to expand...

I disagree with buying a Toyota just because of the studs. I've owned five Toyota's, and loved every one of them. They all had close to 200k miles when I traded or sold them. My sister bought the Corolla at 180-something thousand miles, kept it for about six years, and put another 150k or so on it. But every one lost a stud or two during it's lifetime. They don't last forever on any vehicle.
 
As far as I'm concerned, lug nuts (or bolts, in my case) should be started by hand, tightened by hand, and torqued to the proper tightness using a torque wrench. Anything else is just sloppy work.
 
Many, many years ago I worked in the tire center of the local Fleet Farm. They had a grand opening and needed a bunch of temp help for a couple weeks. Anybody and everybody was working there, qualified or not. They were only changing tires after all...


Who knows what kind of flunkies they had working on your vehicle?
 
jpc said:
As far as I'm concerned, lug nuts (or bolts, in my case) should be started by hand, tightened by hand, and torqued to the proper tightness using a torque wrench. Anything else is just sloppy work.
Click to expand...

Funny you say that, I worked for a Chrysler dealership back in the 80's, and it was mandatory that we torqued the lug nuts to 100 ft/lb. I still used the impact gun, but as soon as it stopped turning, I lifted the trigger. It was usually pretty close to that number. Occasionally, I'd have to back it off a little, but I learned what my gun could do, so it didn't happen too often.

As someone said, the techs at the dealerships want to get as many jobs done in the shortest time they can, but starting the nuts by hand doesn't take any more time than loading the socket with a nut and ramming it on. Unless you have a socket that will hold at least five nuts.

Since you said "or bolts, in my case", I'm assuming you have a European vehicle? Those are usually hardened, so you shouldn't have a problem with those breaking.
 
Dude- crossthreading is so easy to do if the lazy bastard doesnt hand tighten them first.

Then the other mech uses an impact to take them off- most of the time they just snap the studs. Replaceing a stud is easy peazy
 
I read along time ago to finish the nut with a torque wrench. Well, I don't do it, but the point of using an impact on high can ruin the threads was well taken. I zip them on with a low setting and then finish with a wrench by hand.

I bet that kid at the deal was playing NASCAR PIT CREW!

It's better than the one time my wife had a tire replaced at a local shop due to emergency and they forgot to tighten the nuts at all! I was following her home and after a short ways she pulls in and says the car is all wobbly. I had to jack it up and run all the nuts in!
 
whalenutz said:
thus being said take your crap ass american and go buy a toyota cause it is really made in america not canada or mexico, america, or if your one of those people by a honda
Click to expand...

What the hell does this have to do with the situation? The mechanic fkd up not the car. I do most of my own auto work I just finished putting in new lifters in my sons Firebird pain in the ass but it was 1/8th of the price to do it myself.

And one of those people ? What certain people by Honda? ya go buy a Corolla/Tacoma made in a joint venture with GM in a GM plant in Ca.

And dude Toyota makes cars in Mexico and Canada

Toyota currently operates six vehicle assembly plants with one under construction in North America. These include:

• Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. (TMMK), in Georgetown produces the Avalon, Camry, Camry Hybrid, and Camry Solara.

• Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada, Inc. (TMMC), in Cambridge, Ontario produces the Corolla, Matrix and Lexus RX 350.

• Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Indiana, Inc. (TMMI), in Princeton produces the Tundra, Sequoia, and Sienna.

• New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc. (NUMMI), a joint venture with General Motors in Fremont, California, produces the Corolla and Tacoma and Pontiac Vibe.

• Toyota Motor Manufacturing de Baja California (TMMBC), in Tijuana, Mexico, produces the Tacoma and Tacoma truck beds.

• Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Texas, Inc. (TMMTX), in San Antonio produces the Tundra.

• And beginning in 2008, a new plant in Woodstock, Ontario will produce the RAV4.

Also, Toyota this spring will start producing Camrys at Subaru of Indiana Automotive (SIA) in Lafayette, Indiana.

Additionally, Toyota has four engine plants in North America including:

• Toyota Motor Manufacturing, West Virginia, Inc. (TMMWV), in Buffalo produces four-cylinder and V6 engines and automatic transmissions.

• TMMK produces four-cylinder and V6 engines.

• TMMC assembles four-cylinder engines.

• Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Alabama, Inc. (TMMAL), produces V6 and V8 engines.
Click to expand...

get you facts straight before you make outlandish statements.
 
jpc said:
As far as I'm concerned, lug nuts (or bolts, in my case) should be started by hand, tightened by hand, and torqued to the proper tightness using a torque wrench. Anything else is just sloppy work.
Click to expand...

+1. I've changed warped front rotors because the asshats over tighten the lugnuts with an air gun.
 
whalenutz said:
it could be that but not all people know that the lugs are a softer metal then the nuts, and if your gun is full blast and you do not have a torque stick on then you can stretch the lug it self. thus being said take your crap ass american and go buy a toyota cause it is really made in america not canada or mexico, america, or if your one of those people by a honda
Click to expand...

Thanks for calling my truck crap ass. Aside from the usual problems every vehicle has at some point during its life I am completely happy with it. It is a 2003 I brought new and will turn over 90k on the way home from work today, I know that is fairly new but still a dependable truck aside from the occasional rough idle I had.

I had VW's, Honda, Toyota, Chevy, Ford, Dodge vehicles and they all had their issues.
 
Thanks for all those suggesting I replace the stud myself, looks simple enough. BTW, since I was getting my tires balanced and don't have the ability to do that myself I pretty much needed to take it in anyway. The other stuff I could have done but I was on vacation and for sure did not want to spend my day sweating in 90+ weather working on my truck.

One time I had to have a car towed because I had a flat and could not get one of the lugs off. Again, cross threaded and ruined. I'm convinced most places don't think lugs as part of the overall "quality job". Kind of like putting them back on right as important as making sure they put that paper thing down on the floor to keep your carpet clean.
 
Berkbeer said:
Worked at Sears tire as a college student, and I can tell you the main answer is getting paid by the peice. You go as fast as you can because the more you do the more you get paid and the less the manager yells at you that customers are waiting. Also starting lug nuts by hand and the gunning them on will not stop the threads from getting crossed everytime. If the gun is set high enough and going fast enough you can f'up the threads just as well. I always request all lug nuts to be put on by hand even though I know it probably won't happen.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but pissing off customers once they later found out you ruined their lugs/studs is not good for business either. I told one of my co-workers about what happened and he having never been there already crossed them off his list for service. What really topped it off besides them rotating my tires again and now having to do that again, the guy at the service desk told me they were going to replace the lugs for me. Walking out to my truck I saw they were missing. Only then did he tell me they didn't have the right ones and couldn't replace them. If I had not noticed then I might have drove around with 2 missing and not even know. The guy was as slow as a snail too.
 
Hound_Dog said:
I am a tech and I never start lug nuts/bolts with an impact, always by hand. It is too easy with the course threads on them to cross thread one.
Click to expand...

Does everyone in your shop do that? Good to hear someone cares. The problem is they both play "the other guy did it!" and it is really hard to say who would up ruining it. Maybe putting them back on instead of taking them off they ruined them??
 
Bernie Brewer said:
Many, many years ago I worked in the tire center of the local Fleet Farm. They had a grand opening and needed a bunch of temp help for a couple weeks. Anybody and everybody was working there, qualified or not. They were only changing tires after all...


Who knows what kind of flunkies they had working on your vehicle?
Click to expand...

If it is true the dealership cross threaded them I thought they all had to be specially certified by Dodge?
 
springer said:
What the hell does this have to do with the situation? The mechanic fkd up not the car. I do most of my own auto work I just finished putting in new lifters in my sons Firebird pain in the ass but it was 1/8th of the price to do it myself.

And one of those people ? What certain people by Honda? ya go buy a Corolla/Tacoma made in a joint venture with GM in a GM plant in Ca.

And dude Toyota makes cars in Mexico and Canada



get you facts straight before you make outlandish statements.
Click to expand...

Actually, not for much longer; Toyota announced this morning that they're closing NUMMI ;).
 
Homercidal said:
I read along time ago to finish the nut with a torque wrench. Well, I don't do it, but the point of using an impact on high can ruin the threads was well taken. I zip them on with a low setting and then finish with a wrench by hand.

I bet that kid at the deal was playing NASCAR PIT CREW!

It's better than the one time my wife had a tire replaced at a local shop due to emergency and they forgot to tighten the nuts at all! I was following her home and after a short ways she pulls in and says the car is all wobbly. I had to jack it up and run all the nuts in![/QUOTE]

That happened to a friend of mine not long ago, not sure if he or a shop forgot to tighten the lugs. He was actually able to find all the ones that came off by walking back a half mile or so.
Click to expand...
 
the_bird said:
Actually, not for much longer; Toyota announced this morning that they're closing NUMMI ;).
Click to expand...

then the Tacoma's will all be made in Mexico and the Carolla will be Canadian .... prove the point even more



I kind of thought that would happen someday since Pontiac is no more . Was thinking of getting a Vibe its a rebadged Matrix and few thousand cheaper
 

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