BCS-460 Beta Test

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slnies

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For those of you who are following, I am in the process of beta testing the BCS-460. This is a unit designed to automate a brew rig or do fermentation control or what ever else you could think of, and provide a user friendly way to interact with it. Latter today I will post pictures of the unit and talk about my first impressions. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask, and I will give you my slant on it.

Sean:rockin:
 
Here are some pic's
DSCN0301.JPG

DSCN0302.JPG

DSCN0304.JPG


So the first pic is of the BCS-460. It is the little black box of brewing. It is compact, easy, and encased in aluminum. So it is ready for abuse. The second pic is of my set up for fermentation. The beer in the fermenter is a pub ale. The third pic is a screen shot. It is exactly like the web site depicts.

My first impressions are simple. I am impressed. I was able to start programing my unit before it was even shipped. I don't think this will be the norm, but I wanted to illustrate the fact that if you were more savy than I with the computer, you could start your brew day before you even left work. This is a cool trick if you ask me. The BCS-460 seems to be at home both on my mac and my PC in both Fire Fox and Safari. After you figure out how the state machines work, creating a program for brewing, fermenting, or just temp controlled cooling is a snap. In less than five minutes I set up a program for temperature controlled fermentation. The other part that is cool, the computer need not stay hooked up to the unit for it to carry out a process. The temperature probes are impressive and I will post a pic of that later. It is just on of those things that you have to see. So I would say at this point I am very impressed.

Sean
 
As promised, here is the temperature probe.
DSCN0299.JPG

As can be seen, it is quite hefty. A good solid piece of equipment. The best part, is that it screws into a 1/4" fitting. So no fuss, and no muss. Sean
 
Here are some links to screen shots of data from my BCS-460. I currently have it doing fermentation control. She has been holding pretty tight.
http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com/tmp/BCS-460.jpg
http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com/tmp/BCS-460Data2.jpg
http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com/tmp/BCS-460Data3.jpg

Anyway these are different views of the same data. The first one is compressed the second is more expanded and the last is one up from the full magnification. The dots in the middle are the recorded temps at that point and the squiggly line that goes up and down sharply is the heating pad being turned on and off by the BCS. You can set the recording intervals for what ever, but for the purpose of the ferment I think I have it set to 1 minute. It really is cool. If you click on the links you will also get a good idea of what the BCS's interface will look like on your computer . Everyone enjoy.

S.
 
This seemed like a really random post, as I'd never heard of a BCS-460. It seems like it's got some real potential, especially if they find a way to make the probes connect a little cleaner and make the interface more attractive.
 
This seemed like a really random post, as I'd never heard of a BCS-460. It seems like it's got some real potential, especially if they find a way to make the probes connect a little cleaner and make the interface more attractive.

ScubaSteve,

If you don't mind my asking, what would you like to see in the interface and what do you mean by "the probe connect cleaner"? Are you talking about the probes interface with the HLT,MLT,or boil kettle or are you talking about the connect to the module? This is great input. Keep it coming. S.
 
Does the software support integrated PID? Also what is the total analog and digital I/O's, I couldn't tell from the other page whether there were an additional 4 inputs besides the 4 mV inputs for thermocouples or not. Any plans for expansion modules or an advanced model? That may be your way to seperate them is to sell an advanced module with more I/O's and heavier software, and then the current unit with a lite version.
 
ScubaSteve,

If you don't mind my asking, what would you like to see in the interface and what do you mean by "the probe connect cleaner"? Are you talking about the probes interface with the HLT,MLT,or boil kettle or are you talking about the connect to the module? This is great input. Keep it coming. S.

I didn't mean to be so critical, I guess I just meant that the grey interface was kind of boring.....maybe different "skins" would be cool. As far as the probe connect, I meant where it hooks up to the unit. It looks like there's a naked connection where you insert the probe wires on the terminal. Maybe a "plug in" like on a 1394 cable....or even like a cellphone charger?
 
I didn't mean to be so critical, I guess I just meant that the grey interface was kind of boring.....maybe different "skins" would be cool. As far as the probe connect, I meant where it hooks up to the unit. It looks like there's a naked connection where you insert the probe wires on the terminal. Maybe a "plug in" like on a 1394 cable....or even like a cellphone charger?

Steve,

Be critical, be constructive, but by all means, tell use what you really think. Both Ideas are great. That is exactly to kid of input we are looking for. S.
 
Does the software support integrated PID? Also what is the total analog and digital I/O's, I couldn't tell from the other page whether there were an additional 4 inputs besides the 4 mV inputs for thermocouples or not. Any plans for expansion modules or an advanced model? That may be your way to seperate them is to sell an advanced module with more I/O's and heavier software, and then the current unit with a lite version.

DiveBrew,

The answer to the first question is yes. You can select between PID operation or differential control for each probe. For the second question there are four 5Volt discrete inputs, and six outputs. The discrete inputs are for whatever you want them to be on the rig, level sensors, buttons, switches, or whatever else you could think of. There are also 4 web inputs. These are button on the user interface. S.:tank:
 
Thanks for the response, are you allowed to take detailed pics of the module, or is that not permitted with the beta. If so I would appreciate a picture or two of the module (terminals) since it doesn't show on their site.
 
Thanks for the response, are you allowed to take detailed pics of the module, or is that not permitted with the beta. If so I would appreciate a picture or two of the module (terminals) since it doesn't show on their site.

Well, I don't see any harm in it, all the secrets are inside the little black box. LOL. So here is a illustration that is an accurate representation. A beta tester from another forum created this. Afterwork, I will post a pic.

terminals.jpg


The terminals are a screw down compression type, pretty standard for the automation industry. Cheers. S.
 
For the level sensors what is the maximum amount of current this unit can handle per sensor connection? I may have missed these specs somewhere posted above. My thinking is only 5-20ma and let it control SSR's for pumps, panel lights or alarms. Will this unit also learn the system it's operating then learn to come up to temps without overshooting these temps?
As posted above the connection to the temp probe must be "O" ringed or waterproof? Would be nice if they also had 90 degree connections to the probes reducing the snag and destroy factor. As with anything new minor adjustments until the final product is ready.
You have an early x-mas item to play and learn about.
I like the part about once all informations entered then you can move around without a laptop attached full time.
 
For the level sensors what is the maximum amount of current this unit can handle per sensor connection? I may have missed these specs somewhere posted above. My thinking is only 5-20ma and let it control SSR's for pumps, panel lights or alarms. Will this unit also learn the system it's operating then learn to come up to temps without overshooting these temps?
As posted above the connection to the temp probe must be "O" ringed or waterproof? Would be nice if they also had 90 degree connections to the probes reducing the snag and destroy factor. As with anything new minor adjustments until the final product is ready.
You have an early x-mas item to play and learn about.
I like the part about once all informations entered then you can move around without a laptop attached full time.

Well, I will be honest, as far as what each terminal will handle, amp wise, I could not tell you. I will have to ask. As far as what the unit is designed for in that respect, I can tell you that it will handle SSR's without a problem, and level sensors, as I borrowed one from a buddy for a day to play with a program. As far as what the machine is capable of, your imagination and your understanding of a state machine will be your guide. That is to say, however you program it with the "simple to use" state machines, it will do. The PID functions are not auto tune. Once it is tuned it will be very consistent every time. The settings that it comes with, are really, very good anyway, so in my experience with it, I have not had to touch it. As far as automatic operation goes, if you program it that way, all you have to do is hit start, and it will go. This is how my fermentation program is set up.
As far as water proofing goes, that is a good idea. I planed on putting my BCS-460 in an enclosure in the near future to make everything neat. Good feedback, keep it coming. S. :fro:
 
Output current is rated at 20ma per output. Currently there is no autotune feature, although that might come in a future firmware update if there is interest.
 
Here are some more pic's. Today I installed the fittings so that I could hook the temperature probe up to the MLT, and while I was at it I put the pump on a SSR as well.
DSCN0313.JPG

DSCN03141.JPG

DSCN0315.JPG

DSCN0317.JPG


So the first three pictures are the new fitting, the probe before install, and the probe installed. All in all a pretty quick and easy deal, just screw it in. The last picture is the full set up,ready to go. All that remains is to do, is a water test. Then I can do a full brew. Once I have that under the belt, I will add the HLT, and do it all over again.
Enjoy! S.
 
Nies; you should add a tie strap to secure that unit down unless a "G force" test is to be included in your product test. If I understand your last reply to me it does not learn but is "nats azz accurate" so that means any brewing corrections must be done by the brewer entering their information into it with corrections if needed for their desired end results.
How's the fun factor working with it?
 
The only problem I see with a PID control is that in brewing differnt beers with differnt OG's there really is no point to autotune. A beer with an OG of 1.07 will be denser then one with an OG of 1.04. It is for this reason that I run my PID without Auto-tune and have it run in simple on off mode. I can see how the option could be handy for some people, I just would never personally use it
 
Nies; you should add a tie strap to secure that unit down unless a "G force" test is to be included in your product test. If I understand your last reply to me it does not learn but is "nats azz accurate" so that means any brewing corrections must be done by the brewer entering their information into it with corrections if needed for their desired end results.
How's the fun factor working with it?

Brewbeemer,

You are correct on all counts. As to the fun factor, it has been a blast to play and tinker about with. The interface has a new look as well. I will post pics as soon as I get home. I am on the road this week, so you probably won't see pic's until sunday.

S.:rockin:
 
The only problem I see with a PID control is that in brewing differnt beers with differnt OG's there really is no point to autotune. A beer with an OG of 1.07 will be denser then one with an OG of 1.04. It is for this reason that I run my PID without Auto-tune and have it run in simple on off mode. I can see how the option could be handy for some people, I just would never personally use it

mnadam,

you have a good point, but tuning the PID, to some degree, will be required. You are right that the density will change those values, but not to a great extent. You and I, most likely don't need auto-tune because we understand how to tune manually. For most people though, auto-tune is a feature on a PID that comes in quite handy, because now they do not have to understand how a PID works. They just have to press the button and let it do its thing. Great feedback though, and I will admit, to this point, I have not needed to mess with the PID tuning wise, although that may change after the water tests are complete. Thanks, once more for the great feedback. S.
 
Today the water test is underway. I will post screen shots of the data, so you all can see how my system performed, to show case the BCS's data collection ability, and to show the new interface.

Cheers! S.
 
Well, here are the results:
BCS3.jpg

This first image is aways into the water test. It reflects my testing of the different functions while in operation.
BCS5.jpg

This second one is the whole sha bang. Strike water heat up, doe in, mash, and mash out.
BCS4.jpg

This is the new look. There are some added features. One being the out puts being lite in the top right corner. Green is active and red is running. tell me what you all think.
BCS6.jpg

This last one here, is a peek at the programing page. This is were you go to program the state machines.

As for the test. The BCS is operating as expected. There have been some functions added to the little black box since I got it. I will say that they are all, no none sense additions that make a lot of sense. These boys are going all out putting the finale touches into the package. Some functions include the nifty output lights at the top and others include "in process PID adjustment" as well as a "pause button" so one can pause a process in the middle without restarting the program. It sounds like there are some more on the way as well. I will be sure to keep everyone posted when they come online.
The data section of the program is real nice. It will allow me to dial in the Mashes and ferments right down to the Nat's butt hair. Awesome awesome feature. You can also save your configurations. Big plus in anyone's book. This makes the BCS a multi machine brain box. If you have a different machine to hook up to, you load a new configuration. Anyway, that is my two cents for the day. If you have questions, shoot. S.
 
Any word on when this will be made available to the brewing public?

I do not know when, but it sounds like it will be soon. When it comes to market or at least there is a date I am sure we will get some word as to when. The creator of the BCS at Embedded Control Concepts has been very good about communicating with use. That is there is more testers than just me, beta testing this machine. When word of an official release date comes down I will pass it on. I would guess though that eccsynd will make the announcement when the time comes as it is his creation and hard work, that I and others have had the privilege of using, abusing, and taking to the limits. Sean.
 
From another forum that has a member also testing this Beta system it sounded like it was going to be ready for market rather soon with only a few
minor adjustments that have already been made with successful results.
This was only yesterdays followings on another forum. I believe the name Adam came up and was the master mind for this beta 460 unit. I may be wrong reading forums for 19 straight hours. Can't even find where I was on the net anymore screens a blur.
My opinion without shooting myself in the foot this Beta system will come to market more for the home brewer and builder who wants to build their own system that highly repeats itself on brew days and is affordable. I for one do not have money to throw at a nearly $6,000 unit like a Sabco or I bet the cost of that industrial touch screen unit that was looking for investors before going to market. That's a tip off "investors" sound alone like a product pricing war going after Sabco but near in the same market price range of almost $6,000 remember shippings involved in these heavy Sabco units plus there has to be a profit made on each unit. JMO's not to start a flame war just how I see it on what's going on so far. Hurrah for the Beta success and the people
designing it plus hands on like slnies doing the real world testing. Only thing I did not like is the red and green lighting added to the panels top right corner telling what system is on, to me green is "go" or on and "Red" is off not the opposite colors posted above unless I was tripping out again not reading the on off color control panel correctly? I have screwed up just ask the wife.
I'm surprised others have not chimed in on this project test?
 
BrewBeemer,

You are well informed. The beta tests are being carried out by two others besides myself. They were selected from two other forums. It does sound like the BCS will be ready for market rather soon. All the data shows that the latest developments with the programing and integration on the BCS has been a success. I will back this up with my own experiences as well.

Thanks by the way for the input on the button lighting. Keep the critiques coming. S.
 
In my mind, a netbook, like an EeePC would be a perfect compliment to a system like this. Small, portable and able to run FF.
 
green is "go" or on and "Red" is off

Funny you should bring this up! There has been a very long email thread about this topic from the beta testers. Originally (in the version that you see in the screenshots) we have:
green: enabled - off
red: enabled - on
dark gray: unenabled (not controlled)

The thought process was that green-off = safety, red-on = hot/danger. But we agreed that the scheme was confusing. The new scheme that the beta testers and I have agreed to is:

gray- enabled off, or unenabled
red - on

With only one color (background default gray not included), hopefully there won't be any confusion. Anyone else have an opinion?
 
In my mind, a netbook, like an EeePC would be a perfect compliment to a system like this. Small, portable and able to run FF.

Yes, anything that can run a browser can control it. In fact, one of our beta testers is developing an iPhone app. With the smaller resolutions, some of the formatting isn't ideal, so it would be a nice addition to put a minimalistic control page (no gauges, just text and buttons) so you could pull it up on a smaller display. I'll put that on the list.
 
I was just thinking that some people have brewstands and using a 9" netbook would be small enough to fit onto/into their control panels.
 
Ok, why not add a button we can press to select the background colors to be reversed from your red on, green off, to green on and red off as a option for the user of the unit to select. To me as an industrial electrician all our MMC units, start stops, magnetic starters and VFD all had green for on red for off. This is a massive reversed color problem I see with natural eye brain reflexes working this equipment all these years. Adding a small switch or pin hole above a small PC mounted switch to poke and reverse the operation status colors would be a big plus for this this unit. I would hate to open it up a brand new unit and change the LED's to the correct colors of operation.
Not to start a pissing war on a great project but this just blows me away from years working around MCC's magnetic starters and VFD control systems.
Your this far along and almost complete don't let this reversed color be one of its faults.
 
would this be able to control the entire brewing process for a steam based system

Contagent93,

Depends on how you set your system up. But steam control is quit possible given the capabilities of the BCS. In fact, the control part should be quit easy. One program to control the boiler and one for the mash. Keep in mind that you can run up to 4 processes at a time as long as you are not sharing outputs and inputs in those processes.

S.
 
anything that you can switch on and off with electricity it can control...if you wanted to create a glycol based system it could control that, it could be used for home automation if you wanted to go that way, i am actually using it right now to keep my christmas lights outside on for only 4 hours in the evening, just cause I can. :) So if it can do christmas lights(definately not it's desired use) it can certainly control a steam system as long as you can switch a valve with electricity, the ssr's are able to control as much electricity as you want to control with them, as long as you buy the correctly spec'd ones.

would this be able to control the entire brewing process for a steam based system
 

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