Dog Breeders are Nuts!

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KingBrianI

KingBrianI

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Joined
May 23, 2008
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Location
Wake Forest, NC
Oh, man. Is it me or are dog breeders nuts? Let me tell you a quick story of how some stuff just went down and you tell me if I'm overreacting or if my response was justified. My wife is upset at how I handled the situation, but there's only so much abuse a man can take before he says enough.

Here's a little background. We bought a doberman from a reputedly very good breeder back around May. We had been in contact with her and her partner for at least a year prior to this waiting for a puppy to come available. From the conversations and a visit to their house during the waiting time, we knew they were eccentric but were willing to deal with it because we thought their dogs were very good. Every time we spoke though, they would put my wife and I down for any ideas we had or questions we asked that wasn't 100% in line with their way of doing something. They advocate things like not vaccinating because they're worried about the effects it could have on the dog and they recommended supplementing the puppies with calcium (which is completely opposite of everything I've read in regards to puppy feeding) among other things. The subject that caused the recent problems was based on their recommended feeding plan. They feed what I consider a low quality food (Bil-Jac Adult Select) and supplement it with a ground raw meat product marketed for pet consumption. We slowly switched over to a high quality kibble after bringing the puppy home, but continued feeding the raw supplement for a few months. We quit giving the raw for a couple of reasons. First, there is a lot written about not mixing kibble with raw feeding. Apparently, the enzymes needed to break them down are different and mixing them can cause stomach issues and improper digestion. Secondly, high quality kibble is formulated to provide complete nutrition to a dog. By supplementing with the raw, which means he wouldn't be eating as much kibble, I felt it could cause the dog to not get enough of some particular nutrients. Below is a recent email conversation between the breeder and myself.

Email from me to breeder:

Hey Guys,


It's Brian. We've been meaning to send you some pics of Brolly for a while so I took a couple today to let you see what a handsome boy he is becoming. The pictures were taken between postings so you could see how his ears are coming and perhaps comment on any changes we need to make. He's been a great companion and is making a lot of progress in training. Everyone comments on how beautiful he is but we get lots of questions about those funny things on his head. Here are the pictures. Please let me know if you have any recommendations on his ears.

Brian
D7K_6330.jpg


D7K_6349.jpg


D7K_6361.jpg


Response from breeder:

Brian

How much are you feeding him with each meal ? and are you feeding him raw meat, the BlueRidge beef that we told you to get , , , He needs that with each meal and you can see his ribs so tell me how much you are feeding him ?????

Best and the ears look very good., just keep taping them for another month at least !!!

<name removed>

My response:

Hi <name removed>,


We were giving 2 cups of food twice a day, but have noticed like you that he is starting to get skinny so are upping it to 3 cups twice a day. He's 60-65 lbs right now and the vet has been happy with his body condition at every visit. We stopped supplementing with the Blue Ridge beef a couple of months ago and he is on a strictly kibble diet with the addition of the supplements you recommended. The food we are using is Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lover's Soul for Large Breed Puppies.


We would love to see a picture of his sister if you have one!


Thanks,


Brian

Breeder's response 1:

May I ask you WHY you have changed his diet from what I asked you to feed, , , , , first he needs raw meat and why did you stop the BilJac????? He is thin and at his age should never eat 6 cups of food a day for his age. !!!!!!!!! Look at the Protein % of the food he is eating and tell me what it is and what the first 4 ingredients are in this food. I would bet big money that the food he is eating has 27 or 29% protein in it !!!
Very bad !

I am very disappointed that you are not listening to us.. Please answer my questions
<name removed>

Breeder's response 2 (before I could respond to the first response):

Brian

I want you to know that this food is made by Diamond dog food co. and this company has had several recalls on their foods with substances found in the food and has made some dogs very very sick. and dead and put them into renal failure. The Vets get NO training with nutrition so they know nothing about it except what they are being paid to sell and tell you to use. I am very disapointed in you and Erin and if your dogs can save him in time !! gets really sick don't call me ! If I can see ribs in a email picture I know he will have ribs sticking out that I can feel in person and that is NOT good . He did NOT look like this when he left our house.
giving him more amount of food does not solve the problem it messes up his immune system. He is not using this crapy food well at all and that is why he looks like he does. I wish you good luck and if your Vet or whoever told you to use this food is an idiot !! Feeding him that much food can put him into bloat which will give you a dead dog and a huge Vet bill !! I am sorry that you do not trust us enough to listen to us !! That is why I spend so much time talking with everyone when they come.
I made a mistake selling you one of my beautiful dogs and forgive me for being so harsh and I did not judge you both very well. I will add into my contract from hence forth that if the dog food that I ask you to feed is not done I have the legal right to come get my dog back !! Good luck

<name removed>

That's when my patience ended. The following was my response. I feel like it was justified but let me know from your outside perspectives whether you think it was an overreaction:

<name removed>,

I cannot recall one conversation between us that you have not attacked or criticized me for something. I have two suggestions for you. First, don't write emails when you're off your meds. Have Tammy hide the keyboard if you need to. Secondly, if you do insist on throwing these tantrums via email, at least proof read them before you send them. Half of what you wrote is incomprehensible.

Now, on to the subject of dog food. Yes, I am aware that Diamond had a couple recalls a few months ago. We have been monitoring the batches and none of them were effected.

My vet did not choose the dog food, I did. If that makes me an idiot, then those who choose Biljac must be complete morons. You asked what the first 4 ingredients of this "crappy" food were. Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, turkey meal. If you feel like the first 4 ingredients of a food are important, I'm surprised you like Biljac so much. It's first 4 ingredients are chicken, chicken by-products, corn meal, chicken by-product meal. You also mentioned that if the food we were feeding had 27 or 29% protein, that it was "very bad". The food we are feeding does have 27% protein, which is exactly what Biljac Adult Select contains.

You stated that you were sorry we didn't trust you enough to listen to you. When you have these hyperbolic, end-of-the world fits, it makes it hard to trust what you are saying. If you would like to have a reasonable, sane conversation, please respond, but I doubt it is within your abilities. If people who are capable of doing their own research and making thier own informed decisions without blindly following the ravings of a seemingly unstable lunatic aren't who you want to buy your puppies, I feel sorry for the dogs.

Meanwhile, Brolly is happy and healthy and we are having a great time with him.
 
HAHA! I love your response, but it was a little harsh. I am sure that is the only thing they will listen to. I would love to see if he reponds to your last email. We got our last dog for free from a friend, shepard/lab cross. I didn't want to deal with a breeder for the same issues you are having. It seems some never let go of the dog and that the way they do things is the only right way. I haven't heard good things about mixing dry and raw food either, so I agree on that point. Hopefully you don't have to deal with him again.
 
Dang, they do seem a bit psycho and, about the food, you seem to have done your own research which is great. Aside from a few personal attacks, which is understandable from how they treated you, I feel like you made a valid argument. Besides, they started it. :p

I'm curious to what they said next hah.
 
they are nuts, not for the emails, but for docking the tail and cropping the ears on that poor dog, the only reason the tail was ever docked on dogs was when they were working dogs, so guard dogs woudlnt play with their tail and dogs who pulled wagons wouldnt always run over their tail with the wheels. and the ears with because people thought if their ear flaps were gone they would hear better, docking and cropping is illegal most everywhere now and considered cruel, its a shame its still legal in the US, and dobermans are beautiful dogs when they are complete looking. also whats up with your dogs ears, even though they are cropped, it looks like whoever did it, did a horrible job, either that or they arent healed correctly yet.
 
I used to look at a dog forum, and some of the breeders insist on particular foods. They even write it into the buying contract that the dog must be fed that food.
Brolly is a handsome guy!
 
This is awesome! Please post a response if you get one. My e-mail would have been slightly less nice than yours and somewhere would have contained the phrase, "It's my dog, I paid for it, F**K off!" But that's just me.
 
Nice looking dog- except for the ears. :D

You know, my vet is my vet because she takes great care of my dog and I trust HER to give me nutritional advice for him and his weight. I also do my own research and give a good quality food to him but my vet knows which food it is and ok'd it.

While I can understand that they feel strongly about the food, WTF does that have to do with the dog's EARS? Yes, he's thin. That's between you and your vet.
 
He's quite the handsome lad!

I've run across my share of crazy dog people. It boils down to this: He's a DOG! If you fed him Soylent Green and ground possum, he'd STILL be FINE! Break all contact with these control freaks and enjoy your dog. Dog ownership should be a joy, not a chore.

Your reply was fine. I could see a couple of sentences where you could have curbed it a little, but certainly not an overreaction to the attack on your doggie parenthood.

I also agree with the poster who suggested contacting the AKC. They don't deserve to have any certification.
 
KingBrianI said:
Oh, man. Is it me or are dog breeders nuts? Let me tell you a quick story of how some stuff just went down and you tell me if I'm overreacting or if my response was justified. My wife is upset at how I handled the situation, but there's only so much abuse a man can take before he says enough.

Here's a little background. We bought a doberman from a reputedly very good breeder back around May. We had been in contact with her and her partner for at least a year prior to this waiting for a puppy to come available. From the conversations and a visit to their house during the waiting time, we knew they were eccentric but were willing to deal with it because we thought their dogs were very good. Every time we spoke though, they would put my wife and I down for any ideas we had or questions we asked that wasn't 100% in line with their way of doing something. They advocate things like not vaccinating because they're worried about the effects it could have on the dog and they recommended supplementing the puppies with calcium (which is completely opposite of everything I've read in regards to puppy feeding) among other things. The subject that caused the recent problems was based on their recommended feeding plan. They feed what I consider a low quality food (Bil-Jac Adult Select) and supplement it with a ground raw meat product marketed for pet consumption. We slowly switched over to a high quality kibble after bringing the puppy home, but continued feeding the raw supplement for a few months. We quit giving the raw for a couple of reasons. First, there is a lot written about not mixing kibble with raw feeding. Apparently, the enzymes needed to break them down are different and mixing them can cause stomach issues and improper digestion. Secondly, high quality kibble is formulated to provide complete nutrition to a dog. By supplementing with the raw, which means he wouldn't be eating as much kibble, I felt it could cause the dog to not get enough of some particular nutrients. Below is a recent email conversation between the breeder and myself.

Email from me to breeder:

Hey Guys,


It's Brian. We've been meaning to send you some pics of Brolly for a while so I took a couple today to let you see what a handsome boy he is becoming. The pictures were taken between postings so you could see how his ears are coming and perhaps comment on any changes we need to make. He's been a great companion and is making a lot of progress in training. Everyone comments on how beautiful he is but we get lots of questions about those funny things on his head. Here are the pictures. Please let me know if you have any recommendations on his ears.

Brian
D7K_6330.jpg


D7K_6349.jpg


D7K_6361.jpg


Response from breeder:

Brian

How much are you feeding him with each meal ? and are you feeding him raw meat, the BlueRidge beef that we told you to get , , , He needs that with each meal and you can see his ribs so tell me how much you are feeding him ?????

Best and the ears look very good., just keep taping them for another month at least !!!

<name removed>

My response:

Hi <name removed>,


We were giving 2 cups of food twice a day, but have noticed like you that he is starting to get skinny so are upping it to 3 cups twice a day. He's 60-65 lbs right now and the vet has been happy with his body condition at every visit. We stopped supplementing with the Blue Ridge beef a couple of months ago and he is on a strictly kibble diet with the addition of the supplements you recommended. The food we are using is Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lover's Soul for Large Breed Puppies.


We would love to see a picture of his sister if you have one!


Thanks,


Brian

Breeder's response 1:

May I ask you WHY you have changed his diet from what I asked you to feed, , , , , first he needs raw meat and why did you stop the BilJac????? He is thin and at his age should never eat 6 cups of food a day for his age. !!!!!!!!! Look at the Protein % of the food he is eating and tell me what it is and what the first 4 ingredients are in this food. I would bet big money that the food he is eating has 27 or 29% protein in it !!!
Very bad !

I am very disappointed that you are not listening to us.. Please answer my questions
<name removed>

Breeder's response 2 (before I could respond to the first response):

Brian

I want you to know that this food is made by Diamond dog food co. and this company has had several recalls on their foods with substances found in the food and has made some dogs very very sick. and dead and put them into renal failure. The Vets get NO training with nutrition so they know nothing about it except what they are being paid to sell and tell you to use. I am very disapointed in you and Erin and if your dogs can save him in time !! gets really sick don't call me ! If I can see ribs in a email picture I know he will have ribs sticking out that I can feel in person and that is NOT good . He did NOT look like this when he left our house.
giving him more amount of food does not solve the problem it messes up his immune system. He is not using this crapy food well at all and that is why he looks like he does. I wish you good luck and if your Vet or whoever told you to use this food is an idiot !! Feeding him that much food can put him into bloat which will give you a dead dog and a huge Vet bill !! I am sorry that you do not trust us enough to listen to us !! That is why I spend so much time talking with everyone when they come.
I made a mistake selling you one of my beautiful dogs and forgive me for being so harsh and I did not judge you both very well. I will add into my contract from hence forth that if the dog food that I ask you to feed is not done I have the legal right to come get my dog back !! Good luck

<name removed>

That's when my patience ended. The following was my response. I feel like it was justified but let me know from your outside perspectives whether you think it was an overreaction:

<name removed>,

I cannot recall one conversation between us that you have not attacked or criticized me for something. I have two suggestions for you. First, don't write emails when you're off your meds. Have Tammy hide the keyboard if you need to. Secondly, if you do insist on throwing these tantrums via email, at least proof read them before you send them. Half of what you wrote is incomprehensible.

Now, on to the subject of dog food. Yes, I am aware that Diamond had a couple recalls a few months ago. We have been monitoring the batches and none of them were effected.

My vet did not choose the dog food, I did. If that makes me an idiot, then those who choose Biljac must be complete morons. You asked what the first 4 ingredients of this "crappy" food were. Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, turkey meal. If you feel like the first 4 ingredients of a food are important, I'm surprised you like Biljac so much. It's first 4 ingredients are chicken, chicken by-products, corn meal, chicken by-product meal. You also mentioned that if the food we were feeding had 27 or 29% protein, that it was "very bad". The food we are feeding does have 27% protein, which is exactly what Biljac Adult Select contains.

You stated that you were sorry we didn't trust you enough to listen to you. When you have these hyperbolic, end-of-the world fits, it makes it hard to trust what you are saying. If you would like to have a reasonable, sane conversation, please respond, but I doubt it is within your abilities. If people who are capable of doing their own research and making thier own informed decisions without blindly following the ravings of a seemingly unstable lunatic aren't who you want to buy your puppies, I feel sorry for the dogs.

Meanwhile, Brolly is happy and healthy and we are having a great time with him.
Click to expand...

Well said! :mug:
Regards, GF.
 
My german shorthair was about a year old before I stopped seeing his ribs. I feed him Iams puppy large breed food and I have been feeding him 2 to 3 times as much as the bag recommends. He spends a lot of his time running, so he burns a lot of calories, the vet says that he is in excellent condition.
 
Some breeders are just nuts. Either don't get a pup from them (too late now in your case), or cease communication.

People worry too much about their dogs diet. If the dog is healthy, has a good coat, doesn't have bowel problems, etc., then you're doing it right.

My 2 Aussies were overweight when I got them. Did I switch dog food brands? Of course not, as everything else was fine. I slightly reduced their food intake and increased their workout regimen (4 miles a day with me). They've both lost some weight and look great.

MC
 
Wow! Lunatic is right. We got a dog from a reputable breeder 2 years ago. It was a great experience. She was laid back but I could still tell she cared about her dogs. The only nutritional advice she gave us was about when to switch to adult food. She did give us a jug of her home tap water so we could ween him over to our tap water to prevent any digestive issue. This made sense to me. Other than that we love our breeder. We send her pictures at Christmas and everything.
Yes dog people can be crazy and you have to watch out for some of them. Your response to this lunatic was great and reminds me of something my wife or I would have sent. Im sorry you're have such a bad experience. If you ever decide to go through a breeder again try going to that breeds american club site. They have a code of ethics that every breeder belonging to the club abides by. IMO my dog is worth every penny we paid. Rescuing is noble and I have 2. But my pure bred is just a different type of dog all together. I love them all. Good luck.
 
I know a guy who bought 2 terriers from a breeder. In the contract for sale there is a clause stipulating each year on the anniversary of the sale the owner was to read a one page letter aloud to his wife and dogs. The letter was a short story about the woes of allowing your terriers to be off leash near traffic and is a tearjerker. I know he still has the letter but I don't know if he actually reads it aloud each year but his dogs are always on leash when out of the home.
 
BrewerinBR said:
If those breeders are AKC and registered please report them to the AKC they need to loose their registration.
Click to expand...

Lol. The AKC would back the breeders.

While the breeders are a bit 'eccentric' to put it nicely -- they have a good point. You need denser nutrients, not more food which is why they supplement the kibble with raw foods. I dunno where the kibble vs kibble debate same in :cross:
 
IXIboneheadIXI said:
they are nuts, not for the emails, but for docking the tail and cropping the ears on that poor dog, the only reason the tail was ever docked on dogs was when they were working dogs, so guard dogs woudlnt play with their tail and dogs who pulled wagons wouldnt always run over their tail with the wheels. and the ears with because people thought if their ear flaps were gone they would hear better, docking and cropping is illegal most everywhere now and considered cruel, its a shame its still legal in the US, and dobermans are beautiful dogs when they are complete looking. also whats up with your dogs ears, even though they are cropped, it looks like whoever did it, did a horrible job, either that or they arent healed correctly yet.
Click to expand...

You don't think her email is nuts? She is going to reserve the right to take back any future dog that isn't fed to her specification? For me it's time for the men in white coats to come get them.

Docking dog's tails came from several historical things and I doubt wagon pulling had much to do with most of them. Many german hunting dogs have their tails docked because they work in dense woods and the breeds did not have strong tails. Their tails would bang around hitting trees literally tearing them to shreds or even breaking them in some cases, much more humane to dock them. These were dogs that were never hitched to a wagon.

In fact anyone who hitches a dog to a wagon that gets it's tail run over is just doing it wrong. The hitch pole is just too short in that case.

I got a dog 2 years ago from a breeder who was a little nuts, good hunting dog, but I had some issues in my job due to the economy and had to take a new one where I travel and couldn't take care of the dog so I gave him to another hunter. The breeder called me to see how the dog was doing and I told him the story, he berated me for being irresponsible and not forseeing the potential that I would have to make a change. He told me a dog was a 12-18 year commitment and if I wasn't sure I could keep the dog that long I shouldn't have bought him. Really? I have to be able to predict national economic conditions for the next 12-18 years in order to buy a dog? If I could do that, I'd be rich enough to hire someone to train, feed and wash the dog's tush on a daily basis.
 
You think breeders are nuts... deal with Dog Rescue people... even MORE insane..

Nice looking boy.

I think you're doing everything right.

Q
 
Thanks for all the responses. I'm glad I wasn't way out of line on this.

gratus fermentatio said:
FYI: there is currently a Biljac dogfood recall:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-recall/bil-jac-dog-food-recall/
Send that to the nutty breeder; with a smirk!
Regards, GF.
Click to expand...

Haha, yeah I saw that after I had sent my response, but it is funny. I've come to realize that they don't listen to anything I say so even if I did mention it they would either ignore it, rationalize it, or fail to see the irony. Which brings me to:

passedpawn said:
Yep, crazy.

Regarding your response: I find total ignore is the best way. I understand the desire to get down in the mud and duke it out, but with that type of person you can't "win".

Seriously, is it possible to just ignore?
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I've decide to do. I have received two responses from them (one from each of the ladies) but any further correspondence would be pointless. Time and again they have proved that they think there is only one way of doing something (theirs) and any other way will result in immediate, serious and expensive harm to the dog.

My wife originally meant to try to reconcile with them, but in part due to the responses in this thread, and in part due to her realization that conversations with them are pointless, she has thankfully reconsidered. It is my intention to initiate no further contact with them. If in the future, they ask in a respectful way for an update or pictures of Brolly, I will oblige, though I know it will probably result in a negative response from them. (In both of the two previous instances I've emailed them photos, they have responded negatively. The first time we were chastised for a toy they saw in the picture they didn't approve of. The second time we were chastised for not having his ears taped, although we explicitly mentioned in the email the picture was taken in the few minutes between changing the tape.)
 
I just don't understand this. They breed dogs. They sell dogs. They do not continue to own the dogs, nor have any right to ownership. You are not renting the dog, you OWN it. Unless a court of law decides that you are abusing or mistreating YOUR dog, you will get to continue to own it.

I'll be honest here and make the disclaimer that I am not a vet, or an expert in dog health, but that dog looks very healthy to me. Yes you can see the ribs, which is not necessarily normal for all breeds, but a Doberman is a thin breed and active. They tend to have a thin look and judging by the muscle tone and coat I'd say he's a healthy dog. You are feeding your dog much better than I feed mine, I can tell you that much.

I'm curious to know what kind of tests the breeder are certified to perform on a dog to understand it's health, as compared to, say, a trained vet? Can they do blood workup? Urinalysis?

Another thought. Are you sure they aren't getting recompense from the makers of "their" food?? I could imagine a case where the food company would want to target breeders for kickbacks and incentives...
 
Homercidal said:
I just don't understand this. They breed dogs. They sell dogs. They do not continue to own the dogs, nor have any right to ownership. You are not renting the dog, you OWN it. Unless a court of law decides that you are abusing or mistreating YOUR dog, you will get to continue to own it.

I'll be honest here and make the disclaimer that I am not a vet, or an expert in dog health, but that dog looks very healthy to me. Yes you can see the ribs, which is not necessarily normal for all breeds, but a Doberman is a thin breed and active. They tend to have a thin look and judging by the muscle tone and coat I'd say he's a healthy dog. You are feeding your dog much better than I feed mine, I can tell you that much.

I'm curious to know what kind of tests the breeder are certified to perform on a dog to understand it's health, as compared to, say, a trained vet? Can they do blood workup? Urinalysis?

Another thought. Are you sure they aren't getting recompense from the makers of "their" food?? I could imagine a case where the food company would want to target breeders for kickbacks and incentives...
Click to expand...

I know that they are actually resellers of the "Blue Ridge Beef" raw food that they "require". I'm not aware of any connection between them and Bil-Jac, though.

As far as Brolly's weight, I agree with you and our vet agrees with you. He was starting to get just slightly under the condition we've been keeping him due to him hitting another growth spurt. But he's not nearly as underweight as the breeders seemed to think. I've done a lot of reading on bigger breeds and there is a large body of evidence suggesting that keeping a dog slim during their first year prevents them from growing too fast (though they will still hit the same adult size, just slower), which in turn helps prevent musculoskeletal diseases like hip dysplasia later in life. Of course mentioning this to these particular breeders is met with a response similar to if you told them you were feeding the dog nothing but twinkies.
 
Looks like you found a good dog, it's just too bad some crazies came with it. I happen to prefer uncut/bobbed dogs but it's YOUR dog. You didn't lease this dog from the breeders did ya?

He is still a pup and looks good. Almost sounds like they want him to be chunky but then they criticize your feeding amount...if you're not them you are doing it wrong apparently...
 
No more whacked than Breed Rescue groups. Before I got Boss Bailey from Project POOCH, I went to a local greyhound group. I've had greyhounds for 8 years at that point. They insisted that:
They had to visit my home to approve it.
They would chose the dog, I had no say in it.
They had to have access to my vet's records.
They had a right to take any dog back whenever they wanted.

Strangely enough, Greyhound Pets of America dis-enfranchised the group about a year later.
 
We have had some Dobies over the years and your dog (weight wise) looks about perfect. Dobies are supposed to be thin working dogs. Maybe carrying a little extra weight when they are growing helps with their weight during growth spurts, but they need to stay trim as an adult.

Yes, most dog people are nuts. Come to think of it, a lot of parents are nuts too.

This is where you will hate me............Please do not do that again to a dogs ears. Yes, I too like the looks of the trimmed ears but I do not think I could put another dog through that for vanities sake.
 
WildGingerBrewing said:
Please copy and paste these. I must see more! :D
Click to expand...

Haha, I wasn't sure whether I should post their responses since it doesn't factor into my question regarding if my response was appropriate, but since there is interest, here are the two emails I received. I haven't and don't plan on responding.

Email from the lady who wrote the other emails in the first post:

Brian

thanks for your email and I am on NO MEDS so I thank you for your concern I will not bother you ever again about anything concerning, my dog that I sold you. I am glad that you like him so much and I wish you nothing but the best. Since I have had this breed for 52 years I know that I am knowledgeable about what they should eat. By the looks of Brolly he is not doing well on that dog food. So I wish you all of the best with your boy.

Thank you for your nasty email to me but when I care and want to educate I am passsionate
Best of luck,

And here is the email from the other lady (her "partner"):

Morning Erin and Brian,

I have to tell you when I saw the picture's you sent of the puppy my first impression and then questions to myself were " Is he not eating? " "Why is he so thin? "Something must be wrong?" I did not say anything to -name removed- and almost deleted the photo, but I did not. She reacted the same way I did and then came to me and asked what I saw.?

Now, the fact that we have not heard from you basically since you picked him up and we have heard from the others, makes us a little suspect about the whole situation. I will also say to you Brian, I remember a phone conversation that you and I had in the beginning about food and I questioned -name removed- then about selling you a puppy and trouble in the future, since you were already searching out Puppy diets after we had already shared with you why and how we feed and supplement our dogs. We do not recommend feeding a "puppy diet". Never have and I do not believe we ever will unless they drastically change their formulas. I learned a long time ago to "never say never" Keep an opened mind so you can expand and learn new things but some folks just can't do that, I guess.

The disrespectful comments you threw at -name removed- Brian, just shows your immaturity and ignorance of dealing with a situation with your fellow humans, in my humble opinion. I hope you don't treat your other elder's that way?
There is no reason to be ugly and negative when someone is just trying to convey to you the "error's of your ways" Typo mistakes will occur when you are so upset and your brain is going faster than your fingers. You will experience that someday as well and I can only hope for your sake that nobody is that rude to point them out to you someday?

If we didn't care so much I guess it wouldn't bother us when someone sends a photo of a dog that looks too lean for his growth stage , yes, the ears look good at this point and for that we commend you,, but they are not done if all he teeth are not in yet, again, our experience, but the body condition does not, , to us . The fact that you have had him to a Vet already and for what I can only imagine, since we advise staying away from germs and sick animals for the most part unless you have an obvious problem that you must call on a Vet for help, tells us that is was a waste of our time and energy when we sold you this beautiful puppy and gave you all the info about how and why we grow our dogs up. We will now revamp our contract to reflect your problems so they are minimized the next time.

If you can remember again my saying that I always tell folks " the minute you turn left or right out of the driveway we really have no control" you Brian ,are a prime example of why I say that. Not Erin, since she has not said much and you seem to do all the talking , in this case anyway.

I will close by saying I wish you luck and hope the dog lives a long and happy life
We will not bother you again and there is no need to respond to this either, I will not get into a pissing match with you about breeding and caring for Dobermans. You are a Novice and will learn by your mistakes, I know we did.
 
Am I the only one who thought they noticed a hint of rudeness from their original emails? And now the want to blame the OP for his outburst?

That's like calling the pitch black of utter nothingness a deep shade of grey...

Sorry. I'm just depressed because I learned today that my dogs are both overweight and will likely live a miserable short life because I feed them too much crappy food. Not sure how I'll ever get over it.
 
Homercidal said:
Am I the only one who thought they noticed a hint of rudeness from their original emails? And now the want to blame the OP for his outburst?

That's like calling the pitch black of utter nothingness a deep shade of grey...

Sorry. I'm just depressed because I learned today that my dogs are both overweight and will likely live a miserable short life because I feed them too much crappy food. Not sure how I'll ever get over it.
Click to expand...

All they really want is a hug.
 
Oh dear GOD. Go to a breeder and you adopt a basketcase and dog. Go to a Pet Shop, and you risk adopting a walking carcass.

WTF?

I am considering a Boxer in teh near future.
 
Homercidal said:
Am I the only one who thought they noticed a hint of rudeness from their original emails? And now the want to blame the OP for his outburst?

That's like calling the pitch black of utter nothingness a deep shade of grey...

Sorry. I'm just depressed because I learned today that my dogs are both overweight and will likely live a miserable short life because I feed them too much crappy food. Not sure how I'll ever get over it.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry too much about the diet. They're dogs. They'll happily eat cat **** if they get a chance...;)
 
broadbill said:
oh man, talk about a walking veterinary bill....Boxers seem to be prone to just about any/every health issue out there.
Click to expand...

I dunno man, been reading about a variety of dogs and they all seem to be prone to a long list of conditions that spell expensive. But have also read stories about folks who have old dogs that have never had issues.
 
Almost all the dog breeders I've met are weridos. Usually their clients are as well though so it completes the full circle.
 

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