help with white film possibly infection?

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FarmBoy530

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I brewed an Oatmeal stout about 3 weeks ago. I used rinsed yeast (British Ale) and ferm started in about 5 hours. The beer frem'd out in about 3 days but I left it in the primary for 2 weeks to clear and clean up. The fg was high 1.023. I racked to the 2nd and its been there for a week. today I noticed a dry milky color film over the surface and it seems to be heading up the sides of the carboy (just under an inch tall, crawling up from the beer surface). I can tell the film is dry because there are a few bubbles dried in it so its held their shape. I have been brewing for years and have become very sanitary, doesn't mean it cant happen I suppose, I was just surprised. anyone dealt with this before?
 
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Does it look like this? If so, lactobacillus...
 
Sounds gross! I would always just assume it IS going to happen and wage the war in advance. What you are describing sounds like some sort of rhizomorphic fungi
 
Yes that looks like it. Mine is younger so its not that advanced and the bubbles are smaller. Before I go research the hell out of it is there anything you can tell me about it, or where it may have come from?
 
I don't know much about it. It's a bacteria that is desired for some sour styles. You will find alot of information about it around here.
 
If you wanted a clean stout your not getting it. I'd say take advantage of this opportunity and put in some oak chips and a half pound of table sugar, pour right in you don't have to worry about infection anymore. Leave it a year and you will have something delicious on your hands
Don't rinse your yeast or use secondary ferms unless you have to. If you do rinse grow up a starter to outcompete bad bugs.
 
Thanks, I suppose the infection could have come from the sourdough starter I have been using in the same kitchen. Not that I got sourdough in the beer but maybe on dust and then in the beer when I took a sample. I have been brewing for years and I enjoy using a 2ndary. As for re pitching yeast I follow Jamil and Chris Whites method in they're book "Yeast". Also reiterated on an issue of brewstrong. So here is where Im at. I caught this infection young and the beer still tastes fine. Do I sulfide and force carb, or do I go with it and see how it goes? If so why ad the table sugar? The SG is 1.023. And if I try your route zanzibeer then why keep around a year? Is this specific to how long it takes this bacteria to work? Or just your aging recommendations? anything I suppose to not through out 5 gal of hard work not to mention cost.
 
To me that looks exacly like mother of vinegar, probably introduced through a fruitfly. It happened to me once, and as soon as I saw it, I racked into a keg, carbed and drank the beer for about 3 days, afterwhich point it became vinegar and had to be dumped.
 
The flavor of whatever it is hasn't hit yet so I'll wait and see. Pretty sure no fruitflys made it through my airlocks, we don't have them this time of year anyway. I'm sure however its not the only way for it to get in..
 
Yes that looks like it. Mine is younger so its not that advanced and the bubbles are smaller. Before I go research the hell out of it is there anything you can tell me about it, or where it may have come from?

Malted barley is often a carrier of lactobacillus, which is why one shouldn't mill grain in the general proximity of an active brewing rig...

Cheers!
 
Well though that's really good to know, I don't mill my grain. I do make bread however, so could it be that its found in flour of different sorts also?
 
So its been a few days and the beer still taste great. From reading on the forums people seem to say when they add this lactobacilli to the secondary they don't end up with the sour flavor because most of the simple sugars are already fermented. I'm going out of town for a couple days. If it still taste ok when I get back, I'll bottle it. Any other advice?
 
give your equipment and brew area a little better of a pre clean before your next brew day?
 
I clean and sani my brew area and equipment very well. This showed up in my 2ndary 3 weeks after brew day. My guess is sourdough in the kitchen air (on dust ect) got in while I took the bung out to sneak a sample. I'm not worried about my sani practice and such I'm more worried about what I'm going to do from here. At this point it still taste great so if it doesn't develop bad off flavors in a few days I will bottle it (since its time anyway). Probably drink em fairly fast so and maybe save a couple to see if and when the beer turns.
 
So I figured I'd update since the thread seems to be unfinished. This could be Helpful to someone later. It has been roughly 3 weeks since I discovered and kegged my infected stout. I will try to post pics of the infection though it looks just like Jaycount's pic. Remember the lactobacillus didn't show visual signs until a week before bottling. This infection wasn't in my primary fermenter with all the simple sugars. Since the bacteria didn't have simple sugar to eat it didn't produce a lot of sour flavor. There is a pleasant sour after taste that feels like it lingers on your breath (and probably does). I don't plan on aging this stout as long as I would even the most simple ale, because I'm worried about the onset of to much sour flavor. For now its not strong and the beer is great. I'm drinking one now! :mug:
 
It's not necessarily Lacto - could also be Brett or other wild yeast. Brett won't sour the beer so much as give it some funky flavors. Of course, you could have multiple microbes in there.
 
To be honest I'm surprised there are any microbes in the beer after my sani program. I suppose any time you open a carboy there is "potential" for contamination. I'm not sure its lacto. but it does look just like the picture in the thread. Identical. Also the onset of a pleasant light sour aftertaste seems to be showing up, but very slowly. This makes sense with the lack of simple sugars in the beer, but I am not saying its Lacto. for a fact.
 
To be honest I'm surprised there are any microbes in the beer after my sani program. I suppose any time you open a carboy there is "potential" for contamination. I'm not sure its lacto. but it does look just like the picture in the thread. Identical. Also the onset of a pleasant light sour aftertaste seems to be showing up, but very slowly. This makes sense with the lack of simple sugars in the beer, but I am not saying its Lacto. for a fact.

Lacto has a tough time in even moderately hopped beers, so it very well may not be Lacto. Of course, Lacto is also probably the easiest microbe to pick-up in your brewhouse - grain is covered in the stuff. Either way, if you have a white, bubbly film, you've got yourself some sort of non-Saccharomyces critter in there. At this point, you might as well let it ride and see where you end up. :mug:
 
I have had one of these infections. I followed advice from HBT and racked my beer from under the funk, bottled it, and then drank it! The beer had a bit of a strange taste to it but was by no means undrinkable. Only two of the bottles showed an infection ring inside.

I love beer, it is so resilient! :)
 
I have recently had two cases where I got a white film on top of my beer that turned into a waxy substance. The beer tasted ok so i bottled and so far it seems to be holding up. But I'm not going to let it hang around too long just in case.

If it tastes alright i'd drink it. Save your time, energy and space for making a proper sour beer.
 
Yes, as I stated earlier I am drinking it now and it taste great. I will continue to do so until it goes bad or is gone!
 
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