Beerswap: Kaiser's brews

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Dude

Dude

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You got a date Saturday baby!!!

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I just wanted to create the thread to let you know I haven't forgot about ya--I plan on sampling and writing a little critique, 'kay?

Oh yeah, PM sent, BTW....
 
Kai--I got your PM too late to try these. I didn't want to cheat you by not knowing the style and then having a FUBAR palate by the time we got to them. Sam and I will get to these pretty soon.
I'm really looking forward to them.
 
B here....

This is a great beer. Really clean, well balanced. No strong hop aroma, very malty. Refreshing. I could drink this all damn day. The hops come through in the finish. I'd have to say this is probably one of the best homebrews I've ever had.

***********

I dunno what this is, but I'm sure it's a lager. Very little head. Almost along the lines of a maibock? Aroma is mainly malt and a little fruit. Finish is very clean and crisp. Extremely drinkable. I've never been a lager fan, but if I could make this I would.

Sam
 
This one's most definitely a hefe weisse! I'm gonna guess WY3068? Bigtime clove aroma, some banana. Fairly cloudy, but not terribly. I got the first glass, so Dude's was cloudier. Very nice clove flavor. Well executed hefe!

Sam

*********

B here....great beer--AGAIN. I'd love to get specs on this beer--ferment temps, etc. I'm not familiar with the style as far as homebrewing, but I've had many german wheats, and this is right there with the best of them.

What I am trying to say is you are a REALLY good brewer Kai. :rockin:
 
Dude said:
This is a great beer. Really clean, well balanced. No strong hop aroma, very malty. Refreshing. I could drink this all damn day. The hops come through in the finish. I'd have to say this is probably one of the best homebrews I've ever had.
Click to expand...

Thanks,

This is actually my Chubby Angel Ale. I was going for an easy drinking, mildly bittered beer with Cascade Flavor and Aroma. Someting along the lines of Sierra Nevada, w/o being a clone. But I was mostly inspried by a beer that I used to drink when I was in the White Mountains in NH.


I dunno what this is, but I'm sure it's a lager. Very little head. Almost along the lines of a maibock? Aroma is mainly malt and a little fruit. Finish is very clean and crisp. Extremely drinkable. I've never been a lager fan, but if I could make this I would
Click to expand...

Well I got you fooled with this one. It's really an ale that I fermented with 1056 in the upper 60s. I then put it in the secondary for 11 days at 50F to dry-hop. After that I bottled with Kraeusen. I hope that the use of actively fermenting wort (Which I kept from the brew day) for carbonation made the difference in taste at the end. It is said that that practice can scrub off-flavors from the beer as the yeast is still very active. Just like lagering does.

Kai
 
Dude said:
This one's most definitely a hefe weisse! I'm gonna guess WY3068? Bigtime clove aroma, some banana. Fairly cloudy, but not terribly. I got the first glass, so Dude's was cloudier. Very nice clove flavor. Well executed hefe!

Sam

*********

B here....great beer--AGAIN. I'd love to get specs on this beer--ferment temps, etc. I'm not familiar with the style as far as homebrewing, but I've had many german wheats, and this is right there with the best of them.

What I am trying to say is you are a REALLY good brewer Kai. :rockin:
Click to expand...

Thanks again,

I actually think that this hefe is a little strong on the clove aroma. I haven't found much banana in it, but I may not be very good in picking this aroma out. I like to contribute the stong clove aroma to the ferulic acid rest that was done. Ferulic acid is a precursor to 4VG (the clove aroma) and the more you have in your wort, the more clove you will get. My next hefe will be a single infusion, so I can taste the difference myself.

What do you think about the acidity? I acidified with some acid malt (lactic acid) and think that it is a tad to sour.

Here is the thread with the recipe. The Baron and I spend the better half of a work day discussing how to make a Weihenstephan clone:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7713

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
Thanks,

This is actually my Chubby Angel Ale. I was going for an easy drinking, mildly bittered beer with Cascade Flavor and Aroma. Someting along the lines of Sierra Nevada, w/o being a clone. But I was mostly inspried by a beer that I used to drink when I was in the White Mountains in NH.




Well I got you fooled with this one. It's really an ale that I fermented with 1056 in the upper 60s. I then put it in the secondary for 11 days at 50F to dry-hop. After that I bottled with Kraeusen. I hope that the use of actively fermenting wort (Which I kept from the brew day) for carbonation made the difference in taste at the end. It is said that that practice can scrub off-flavors from the beer as the yeast is still very active. Just like lagering does.

Kai
Click to expand...

Wow, no kidding fooled. I feel PWNED on this one. That was an awesome beer. I've been wanting to ferment an ale real cold to see the effects.

Was that decocted?
 
Kaiser said:
Thanks,


Well I got you fooled with this one. It's really an ale that I fermented with 1056 in the upper 60s. I then put it in the secondary for 11 days at 50F to dry-hop. After that I bottled with Kraeusen. I hope that the use of actively fermenting wort (Which I kept from the brew day) for carbonation made the difference in taste at the end. It is said that that practice can scrub off-flavors from the beer as the yeast is still very active. Just like lagering does.

Kai
Click to expand...

Dang, I totally missed your replies.

You're right, you definitely fooled me. On top of it being an ale, I never would have guessed it was dry hopped.

You'll have to explain to me how to "bottle with kraeusen". Maybe a post in the "bottling/kegging" forum? Sounds interesting.
 
I had a non-skunked Chubby Angel last night and it was fantastic...I thought it was hopped really well, and quite balanced. I think the Kaiser mentioned that he dryhopped at 55F, while most of us dryhop ~65-70F, so that may have been what threw off Swami & Dude. The Kaiser and I also had a continuation of the discussion on IBU's...I would have called the hopping ~32 IBU's, while I believe he said upper 20's.

I also sampled the Maibock and Oktoberfest...both excellent! The Maibock was just right, and compared much more favorably than Carolina Brewery's Spring Bock IMO. CB's almost tastes like apple juice, while the Kaiser's has the esters more in balance for my tastes.

We also sampled the Oktoberfest as I mentioned...in theory it should age until September, I suppose, but I'm ready to go ahead and polish it off. It was probably my favorite of the set...nice maltiness. I was shocked it was only Pilsen & Munich...I would have thought there was something even maltier in there.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
I had a non-skunked Chubby Angel last night and it was fantastic...I thought it was hopped really well, and quite balanced. I think the Kaiser mentioned that he dryhopped at 55F, while most of us dryhop ~65-70F, so that may have been what threw off Swami & Dude. The Kaiser and I also had a continuation of the discussion on IBU's...I would have called the hopping ~32 IBU's, while I believe he said upper 20's.
Looks like cold dry-hopping is the way to go. I have dry-hopped beers warm before, but can't do a side-by side comparison. According to my calculations this beer is at 25 IBU! Speaking about difference in hop utilization. I only hope that it will remain constant for my system. I would even be inclined to have a lab analys done on future beers when I have a new brewery that I may use for a very long time. This way I can see if there is a constant correction factor that I have to use for IBUs. Or I just compare to commercial exampled with known bitterness. This will be cheaper and more fun ;)

I also sampled the Maibock and Oktoberfest...both excellent! The Maibock was just right, and compared much more favorably than Carolina Brewery's Spring Bock IMO. CB's almost tastes like apple juice, while the Kaiser's has the esters more in balance for my tastes.
Click to expand...

The Maibock feels a little to sweet and heavy for me. It's fermentation stalled at about 1.026 and I know that it could have gone as low as 1.020. But it could have been much worse. It's fermentation was less than optimal and dragged for a long time.

Cariolina Brewing Company ferments their lagers at 58F (!). This is really on the upper end for lager fermentation and they don't have means to to a long and cold lagering.

We also sampled the Oktoberfest as I mentioned...in theory it should age until September, I suppose, but I'm ready to go ahead and polish it off. It was probably my favorite of the set...nice maltiness. I was shocked it was only Pilsen & Munich...I would have thought there was something even maltier in there.
Click to expand...

Well, this may not last till Oktober since I'll be moving and I will have no way of lagering during temporary housing.

This has been my best fermented lager so far. I learned a lot from the Maibocks mistakes. This beer was tripple decocted which may have been the reason for the increased maltiness. Next time (which will be as soon as I'm in the new house since I need one for october) I plan to add some toased pilsner to the grist and see what it does to it.

Dude, Swami,

We'll be stopping at Virgina Beach on our way up to Massachusetts. I'll bring you some bottles of the Maibock and the Oktoberfest :)

Kai
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I had the Oktoberfest in a more sober state of mind and was actually a little disapointed. It seems to sweet and I will have to take a gravity reading to see if it actually hit the FG that I have gotten from the fast ferment test.

Kai
 
I never got around to posting my reviews of Der Kaiser's beers. Some of this has to come from memory since I had them a while ago, but I did drink his Oktoberfest this weekend, which is what reminded me that I never posted reviews.


Pale Ale (had this BEFORE the Beer Fest)
Now... Kai has said himself that he doesn't like a lot of hop bitterness in his beers (but does like flavor and aroma). That said, I was pleasantly surprised at the level of bitterness in his PA. To me, it tasted very similar to Carolina Brewing Co's PA. It's not monumental by any means, but is definately (a) a beer I could drink several of and be pleased and (b) a beer that I would NEVER turn down if it was offered.

Double Bock (had this at the Beer Fest)
Pretty darn malty, but very good and rich flavor. It certainly made waiting in line to get in a lot more pleasant. I don't drink many lagers, but (single) Bocks are the ones that I drink most often. Kai's DB was one of the best ones I have ever had. I don't think I could drink more than 2 in one session, but... very good beer, Kai.

Oktoberfest (#1) & Oktoberfest (#2)
I had these this weekend. The house menu rolled around with Bratwurst and Weisswurst, kraut, and german potato salad, so I was obligated to open up my Oktober's and drink them with dinner. We opened both bottles and compared them side by side.

Summary: Auzgezeichnet!

I don't know what 'flaw' Der Kaiser detected in his first batch that prompted him to brew the second batch, but I couldn't detect ANYTHING wrong with the first. There was a definite difference in taste, but I could in no way say that #1 was inferior. I actually preferred the #1, SWMBO preferred #2. We were very sad that we only had two bottles. Mine was gone before the wurst were done cooking.

This was not only the best of Kaiser's beers (IMO), but it was probably one of the best lager's I have ever had, and DEFINATELY one of the best overall homebrews that I have ever had.

PERFECT beer, Kai.


Der Kaiser ist ein Lagermeister.
 
Dude said:
What I am trying to say is you are a REALLY good brewer Kai. :rockin:
Click to expand...

I'll second that. I'm very impressed with everything I've had from The Kaiser Brewing Company.

-walker
 
Beer #20: Kai, send me a key.

In any case, this is clearly a lager.

It pours incredibly clear (did you filter, or just lager a lot?). Good head on the pour, although the retention was low. I assume this was due to bottling with a cobra tap.

Very little hop aroma, and the hops came through only in the bitterness, no aroma or flavor that I could detect. Maybe ~28-32 IBU's by my standards.

Nice malt flavor. I didn't get any of the astringency or powdery taste that you had mentioned in other threads, but I did detect a very slight sourness on the back of my tongue in the aftertaste...almost impercetible.

Very clearly a lager strain. SRM maybe 3-4...quite light, and as mentioned very clear.

I give it an A. Since I knew I would be drinking significant beer afterwards, I left the rest of the beers for later review.
 
O-****, I totally forgot to send the key:

#20 - Oktoberfest (double decoction):

This one was part 2 of a single infusion vs. double decoction experiment. The outcome of this experiment was inconclusive for me since to many things ended up being different between the two. I recently sampled another bottle:

aroma: malty
color: nice dark golden with brilliant clarity
taste: dustyness/astringency develops in the finish. There is some maltiness though I hoped for more.

This could be a nice Wiesen-style Oktoberfest if it wasn't for that damn astrigency.

#25: - Helles

My first try of a Helles and it was one of my worst beers so far. It was brewed with the cursed bag of Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hops which were also used for #20. I currently suspect that these hops and maybe a high sparge pH lead to this taste. I dumped most of it after primary fermentation but bottled 4 bottles while the beer still had some fermentable sugars left (hence the higher carbonation) to see how it will turn out. It has never been lagered (stored below 45F) yet still turned out very clear.

aroma: very, very faint aroma of hops
color: yellow, light golden. very clear
taste: undrinkable due to the harsh bitterness astringency.

I'll send the description for the others later.
Kai
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
Nice malt flavor. I didn't get any of the astringency or powdery taste that you had mentioned in other threads, but I did detect a very slight sourness on the back of my tongue in the aftertaste...almost impercetible.
Click to expand...

I have to see if I can find another one of these in the fridge, but I'm surprised that you didn't get the astringency. It develops as a "dusty" perception later in the finish.

Kai
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
Kaiser, did you ever post a recipe for your Maibock? I came into posession of Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager and it's burning a hole in my fridge. And no, I'm not a slave to the calendar ;)
Click to expand...

I'll be brewing my Maibock tomorrow, but a slightly different recipe. Here is the recipe of the Maibock I brewed last year:

5.44kg Weyermann Pilsner
0.35kg Weyermann Munich I
0.23kg Weyermann Vienna
0.20kg Weyermann CaraPils
0.07kg Belgian Aromatic

Mash: (more complicated than necessary)
40*C 15min (acid rest)
55*C 30min (protein)
decoction pulled after 5 min, 10 min rest at 70 and 5 min boil
53*C 35min (maltose)
decoction pulled after 15min, 10 min rest at 70, 5 min boil
72*C 20min (dextrinization)
decoction pulles after 15min, 5 min boil
78*C mash-out

As I said the used malt doesn't need that much mash-work

Hops:
7g Perle 9% 60min
42.5g Hallertauer 3.5% 60min
14.2g Halletauer 3.5% 15min

Yeast: Wyeast 2206

This year, I'm actually using a recipe from a German homebrewing book which is very similar to the Oktoberfest and I also noticed that My Oktoberfest would make a good Maibock if it would be brewed stonger and finishes a little sweeter:

60% Weyermann Pilsner
33% Weyermann Munich I
3% Weyermann Carafoam
2% Weyermann Acid malt (you shouldn't need this for Cary water)

Mash (Hochkurz Maishverfahren*):
53*C 20min - protein
63*C 30min - Maltose
pull decoction after 30min, rest at 70 and boil for 10 min
70*C 30min - Dextrins
pull thin decoction after 30min, rest at 70 and boil for 10 min
76*C mash-out

Hops:
30g Tettnang (3.7%) 70 min
30g Halletauer (4.0%) 70 min
20g Saaz (3.8%) 5 min

Yeast: WYeast 2206. ~100 ml sediment

stats:
original extract 16.5*P, ~21 IBU

*) Hochkurz Mash is a double decoction where the first decoction is used to get from a beta amylase rest to the alpha amylase rest and the second decoction is used for mash-out. It is a good decoction mash for well modified malts, where the protein rest should be kept short.

Kai
 
Here are the codes for the other beers I sent you:

21: Adventius Weizendoppelbock
24: Chubby Angel Pale Ale
26: Duesseldorf style Alt

I'll let you comment on them first so I don't taint your perception.

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
I'll send the description for the others later.
Click to expand...
Don't bother for #21! This is your Weizenbock, and a damn fine one the more I drink it. I don't have many datapoints for Weizenbocks (only Aventinus), but I really like it. The maltiness is strong even though the spice from the yeast is really coming through. In fact, I really like the spiciness...this isn't 3068 is it? Which yeast? The sweetness from the malt really combines well with the spiciness. It has a nice warming from the alcohol as well.

So what was your problem with this one? :D:mug:
 
#24: I might have screwed this one up. The Kaiser gave me a hint to drink this one soon which I took to mean it was a Hefeweizen and dumped the whole thing in the pint glass. I now think it was a pale ale which I poured yeast into.

In any case, it was a good beer (as all of Kai's beers are). Very light in color, very clear (until the yeast hit), and nice head (especially given that I think Kai bottles from a cobra tap!).

The pros: light color, nice maltiness, nice acidity/sourness (the good kind). I thought it was really a refreshing beer and well balanced.

The cons: This is personal, but I'd prefer more hoppiness. All the hoppiness felt concentrated in the bitterness and I didn't really get any flavor/aroma hoppiness. Then again, I know this to be the Kaiser's modus operandi and probable intent. There was also a weird taste on the back sides of my tongue for the first half of the pint, but it went away. Kind of hard to describe...it almost tasted like the beer was conditioned with lager yeast, but weirdly. Wish I was more descriptive, but that's the best I've got.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
So what was your problem with this one? :D:mug:
Click to expand...

I used the WLP 351 "Bavarian Weizen" yeast from White labs for this one.

I think that the alcohol flavor is to harsh due to a large amount of fusel alchohols. The bitterness is also to harsh and I would have liked it a little sweeter. It seems to get better with age because I found it undrinkable at Thanksgiving when I planned for it to be ready.

It's definately not very close to Aventius. Aventius is a very easy drinking beer, mine is more like a sipper. The carbonation is also to high. I'll cut that down the next time. High carbonation only seems to work well for the more refreshing light wheat beers.

Kai
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
#24: I might have screwed this one up. The Kaiser gave me a hint to drink this one soon which I took to mean it was a Hefeweizen and dumped the whole thing in the pint glass. I now think it was a pale ale which I poured yeast into.

In any case, it was a good beer (as all of Kai's beers are). Very light in color, very clear (until the yeast hit), and nice head (especially given that I think Kai bottles from a cobra tap!).

The pros: light color, nice maltiness, nice acidity/sourness (the good kind). I thought it was really a refreshing beer and well balanced.

The cons: This is personal, but I'd prefer more hoppiness. All the hoppiness felt concentrated in the bitterness and I didn't really get any flavor/aroma hoppiness. Then again, I know this to be the Kaiser's modus operandi and probable intent. There was also a weird taste on the back sides of my tongue for the first half of the pint, but it went away. Kind of hard to describe...it almost tasted like the beer was conditioned with lager yeast, but weirdly. Wish I was more descriptive, but that's the best I've got.
Click to expand...

#24 is my house Pale Ale brewed with pilsner malt. I used a single infusion mash for this one and it had a haze that never went away for me. That's why I started to believe that Weyerman Pilsner is not suited for single infusion mashes.

This beer was bottle conditioned, like all my ales, and the flavor/aroma must have suffered from age. I bottled that beer mid November last year. Though I liked the beer I think it was far away from the first Chubby Angel I brewed and I will have to go back to the original recipe. I only used the pilsner because I didn't want to go out and buy malt.

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
#24 is my house Pale Ale brewed with pilsner malt. I used a single infusion mash for this one and it had a haze that never went away for me. That's why I started to believe that Weyerman Pilsner is not suited for single infusion mashes.

This beer was bottle conditioned, like all my ales, and the flavor/aroma must have suffered from age. I bottled that beer mid November last year. Though I liked the beer I think it was far away from the first Chubby Angel I brewed and I will have to go back to the original recipe. I only used the pilsner because I didn't want to go out and buy malt.

Kai
Click to expand...
Interesting...it tried to pour clear, but didn't. Maybe the Pilsner malt was what was throwing me off from just thinking "pale ale" as you could certainly tell there was a different flavor there. Have you tried FWH with your Chubby Angel? I think for your tastes you might like a FWH + bittering schedule in a PA.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
Interesting...it tried to pour clear, but didn't. Maybe the Pilsner malt was what was throwing me off from just thinking "pale ale" as you could certainly tell there was a different flavor there. Have you tried FWH with your Chubby Angel? I think for your tastes you might like a FWH + bittering schedule in a PA.
Click to expand...

No I haven't tried FWH yet. I was all excited about that technique when I started AG, but never tried it.

Kai
 
I've tried it twice now which may not be enough datapoints for a conclusive trend, but I have really like the hop profile of both of those beers (despite other flaws) and felt like I've been unable to achieve it before with non-FWH. Most people describe it as a "smoother" hop flavor. It also helps with boilovers (to an extent).
 
#25: pale lager beer. Perhaps your Helles? Poured clear, very nice carbonation and bright white head on a very pale beer. Upon taking a smell of the beer I did feel like I could detect a very yeasty odor. It seemed to persist throughout the sampling.

However, the flavor was very nice. I thought this was a very well balanced beer...the hops the perfect counterpoint to the malt, and a very clean flavor with no offensive aftertaste at all (which surprised me given that I detected yeast in the odor). It didn't have any unusual or unique flavor, but felt like a very clean and well executed lager.

I hope I'm not wrong...:eek:
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
#25: pale lager beer. Perhaps your Helles? Poured clear, very nice carbonation and bright white head on a very pale beer. Upon taking a smell of the beer I did feel like I could detect a very yeasty odor. It seemed to persist throughout the sampling.

However, the flavor was very nice. I thought this was a very well balanced beer...the hops the perfect counterpoint to the malt, and a very clean flavor with no offensive aftertaste at all (which surprised me given that I detected yeast in the odor). It didn't have any unusual or unique flavor, but felt like a very clean and well executed lager.

I hope I'm not wrong...:eek:
Click to expand...

Now that surprises me a lot.

This is the batch I dumped and which started the whole thing about looking into my mash pH and such. I just checked the fridge and I don't have any bottles, of the 5 I bottled just out of curiosity, left. My last notes on the beer were: "unbeatable astringency/dustyness in the finish". I currently have a Helles with the same problem sitting in my fridge and it is only drinkable for me if mixed with Sprite to make a Radler.

Either I must have a very sensitive palate to this problem, or the beer must have cured itself over time.

The yeastiness could have been autolosys given the fact that I bottled from the primary while the beer was still fermenting. Since I knew the FG of the beer I was sure that I didn't get a bottle bomb by doing this.

Kai
 
Your palate is 10x more sensitive than mine, I can guarantee you of that. I didn't detect any obvious flaws like you describe other than the yeasty aroma which I expected to result in some aftertaste, but it didn't. I found it very drinkable and never would have dumped a batch of it!

Perhaps your point on aging is pertinent and whatever off-flavors you were detecting were eventually cleaned up by the yeast over time and then they kicked the bucket.
 
#26...no idea. It's malty and a dark amber and very nice. Not hoppy, which I wouldn't expect from you, and slightly estery. Carbonation was medium to medium-high and the head was quite persistent. But I don't really know what it is.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
#26...no idea. It's malty and a dark amber and very nice. Not hoppy, which I wouldn't expect from you, and slightly estery. Carbonation was medium to medium-high and the head was quite persistent. But I don't really know what it is.
Click to expand...

That was my Alt. The first batch didn't come out as hoppy as I aimed for and it must have had some age on it by now. I'm surprised about the estery character, b/c I didn't get this at all.

This was actually the only beer , of the beers I sent you, that I thought was almost perfect. I believe that I only have to get the bitterness right where I want it.

Kai
 
It was definitely a great beer. I drank it all except for a couple of sips from SWMBO who tried to get more (but I wouldn't let her). I loved the maltiness. When I say ester-y, I only mean that it was ale-like in comparison to your other beers (i.e., lagers), not that it was overly estery for an ale.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
It was definitely a great beer. I drank it all except for a couple of sips from SWMBO who tried to get more (but I wouldn't let her). I loved the maltiness. When I say ester-y, I only mean that it was ale-like in comparison to your other beers (i.e., lagers), not that it was overly estery for an ale.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problems with some estery profile of this beer, its just that I didn't pick it up. Maybe I didn't really know what to look for in the first place.

Kai
 

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