Too many changes to Brew Process?

Hi All!

I have a question about how you folks go about changing your brew process.

The reason I ask is that the last batch I made had a definite off flavor. Looking through these posts and Palmers' troubleshooting guide in his book, it definitely seems like it could have been 'extract twang.'

I used a Brewer's Best Cream Ale Kit and I am now wondering how fresh the canned malt extract could have been.

I also left the beer in the primary for about two and half weeks and then let the beer bottle consition for about 5 weeks.

I also didn't strain the wort - read all of the posts about straining versus whirlpooling now have a pretty good handle on it. .

I recently ordered 2 of Austin Homebrew Supply's Classic Series Kits. (Awesome deal by the way - order two and it is free shipping.)

These come with Dry Malt Extract only.

I was also thinking about going to a secondary this time around

AND straining the wort instead dumping it in while holding the break back with the paddle. . .



My main question after these ramblings is how many things should you change at once? I am wondering if I should just try these batches with all DME instead of LME to see if that helps with the 'twang' and wait on going to a secondary and straining, if at all.

I feel like if I change only one thing at a time, I will be better able to narrow down what the problems might be. I want to really develop a solid brewing process and I think this would help.

How do you guys handle this? Do you only change one thing at a time when developing your process?

Thanks for all your help and sorry for the long post. . . .

Really, if you want to be able to rule something out entirely, you need a "control" batch to compare it against. If you don't want to go that route (which I could understand), changing one thing at a time would be the best way to isolate and eliminate the cause of an issue.

That said, I've made quite a few extract batches, and I've never got something I would have described as the "extract twang." I've seen it described, but I don't know exactly what it tastes like.

Personally, I wouldn't add a secondary. It's only another chance to add oxygen and screw things up. I've dropped it from almost all my beers, and I think they're better for it. I used to strain all my extract batches on the way to the kettle, and I had no problems. The wort needs to be cool before you strain it though, to make sure you don't have issues.

The switch to DME could be worth a try. I'd keep everything else the same. Make sure everything is cleaned and sanitized, and you should be able to tell if the problem was the LME vs the DME.

It would probably be ideal to change one thing at a time, but that's not how I did it! I probably changed numerous things each time, because my goal was to make the best beer I could. Somethings don't really matter (straining your wort, for one) and some things matter greatly (temperature control). If it were me, I'd go ahead and make those changes that you want to make and see how it works.

A "secondary" is really not the correct term, since no secondary fermentation happens there. It's called a "bright tank" in pro breweries, since it's for clarifying and a little conditioning. That's fine, if you want to use one. I very rarely use one any more, but I do when I dry hop or have a "big" beer. It won't necessarily make better beer, but it will help to keep you from drinking it too early!

I think that having the freshing ingredients you can get, cooling the wort quickly after the boil, using the proper amount of yeast and temperature control during fermentation are the most critical techniques.

Straining the wort (sometimes I do, mostly I don't), using a clearing tank (again, "secondary"), plastic vs. glass, etc are all fun things to add or change, but don't really matter in the taste of the beer.

2 of us so far have made that Brewers best cream ale kit in the last 6 months.
2 of us so far have confirmed that it tasted terrible!

Keep your process the same, and change kits!

Mine is so very bitter that you could hardly call it a cream ale at all, and the taste is very bad. See our conversation HERE:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/disappointed-80116/index2.html#post852644
I would get another kit...maybe an AHS store brand kit, or from a LHBS!

Thanks BigK. . .

I really thought it was bitter too. . .maybe I was mistaking that for the 'extract twang.' In the end, even after 2 months in the bottle, it reall wasn't very good.

I am getting two Austin Homebrew Supply Kits today. . .the California Pale Ale and the Amber Ale. I am really looking forward to see (and taste) the results. . .

mrosania said:

Thanks BigK. . .

I really thought it was bitter too. . .maybe I was mistaking that for the 'extract twang.'

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It is so oddly out of balance...It smells great!...Tastes terrible.

I had myself convinced that it was everything from extract twang, Band-Ade Flavor, Metallic, Didn't rinse the bottles well enough....I was pretty bummed until I saw that other thread...then a light came on! Ding! Badly assembled Kit!

If you are trying to figure the science of your brew process, carefully controlling all factors and changing only one thing at a time is "best". Repeated trials (of supposedly the exact same process) are also "best" to control for random factors. This all takes lots of time and ingredients.

If you are willing to accept some input from the outside world as valid, then changing multiple things is fine, if you believe, upon consideration of the ever-conflicting streams of advice from here, elsewhere on the web, the LHBS, etc. that the changes are all in the direction of "better". Then you can go back to changing one thing at a time from there, or flail around randomly trying different stuff and see what happens, as the mood strikes you.

The somewhat scientific approach will provide you with information you've found out for yourself. Other sources are more in the manner of taking upon faith what's handed down from on high - but if you choose to be scientific about it, you can take on faith as a starting point, and then see what happens when you alter one variable in that process, rather than leaving it as a fully faith-based exercise where "brewing gods" tell you what to do, and what not to do.

Ecnerwal said:

if you believe, upon consideration of the ever-conflicting streams of advice from here, elsewhere on the web, the LHBS, etc. that the changes are all in the direction of "better". Then you can go back to changing one thing at a time from there,

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Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine?

as for me and my family, we'll flail around randomly trying different stuff and see what happens, as the mood strikes me.

Ecnerwal said:

Other sources are more in the manner of taking upon faith what's handed down from on high - but if you choose to be scientific about it, you can take on faith as a starting point, and then see what happens when you alter one variable in that process, rather than leaving it as a fully faith-based exercise where "brewing gods" tell you what to do, and what not to do.

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Hmmm. I'm not smart enough to know if I've been insulted or not. It definitely sounds like an insult to me, though.

Anyway, I think it's best to start with a good kit and with good techniques and go from there.

Touchy. Take it any way you like, but not intended to insult.

If I publish a recipe that specifies that you must skim the foam off the wort in a clockwise direction only, because skimming the other way will ruin the beer, what is your response?

In a scientific approach, if you even thought it was worth investigating (I don't, actually) you boil up a batch skimming counterclockwise, a batch skimming clockwise, and perhaps a batch skimming both ways and see what you get.

More realistically, if you want to see what a different yeast does, boil up one batch of wort, identical to the point of pitching the yeast, split the batch, and ferment with both yeasts. As compared with reading what others have said about the two yeasts, your own at home experiment will provide you with direct knowledge of the behavior of the two yeasts (under the conditions prevailing in your brewery at the time, for that batch of wort, etc.) Reading will tell you what others think, but it's at a remove - and you may find that your personal preference is not in line with the traditional wisdom about which yeast is "more correct" for a particular type of beer - which may mean that what you like is not really that type, of course.

Trying the two different yeasts on two different batches of beer will introduce so many other variables that you have no real knowledge of what part of the differences is from the yeast. It's experimenting, but not in a manner that you can really get good concrete, comparable results from. This does not make it bad, but it does make it difficult to isolate the contribution of any one particular change - - - and if the better batch had the foam skimmed off clockwise, was that the important detail?

I think you're reading too much into the Ecnerwal. While I do agree with your theory, and actually encourage myself to take some of these steps in my brewing, I don't think the OP was really looking for a Dissertation on Scientific Method. I do think his entire post could be summed up into 8 words:

WHY DOES MY BREWERS BEST CREAM ALE SUCK?

And now he knows.
But a word to mrosania: If you do decide to start tracking down an issue, start with what Yooper and Ecnerwal have said....one thing at a a time.

Ecnerwal said:

If I publish a recipe that specifies that you must skim the foam off the wort in a clockwise direction only, because skimming the other way will ruin the beer, what is your response?

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I shake a rubber chicken over my wort while wearing adult support hose but I don't include that in my recipe formulations. That's a brew process step and something that will differ from brewer to brewer or even batch to batch.

To the OP:

You've the right idea buying kits from an established retailer with rapid ingredient turnover. Follow "conventional" wisdom found here and in "How To Brew" by John Palmer and you'll make good beer.

After you make a beer you like, then you start experimenting with different items or processes and see how things change.