backsweeting/cold crashing

My experimental 3.5L (about a gallon) of apple cider I fermented with S04 has hit 1.012 from 1.060 and I think I`m ready to bottle it. My plan is to leave it outside around 2-3 days since the flask is too big for the fridge. Do you think this will work? (the highs for this week are all around 50-55F)

After this, I was going to backsweeten with a little splenda and organic apple juice (without preservatives). I figure if there are still some yeasties in solution that ferment the apple juice I will get carbonation, and if not that`s ok too and it will just be a bit sweeter. Any idea how much apple juice to add??? I really have no idea and don`t want bottle bombs if the yeasties are still active after my ghetto cold crashing...


BTW...think I should boil the organic store bought apple juice I use for priming? or it should be ok since its for human consumption??

A friend of mine crashed his carboy by putting it in a keg bucket and filling with ice. That got it nice and clear. You could probably do the same with a gallon by putting it in a cooler or big pot.

Rack your gallon into a new clean jug first. You want to first get the cider off the yeast cake. Then cool the new jug. More sediment will drop in the fridge (or ice bucket) and it will get nice and clear. At that point you can rack into bottles.

Personally I wouldnt add anything. Taste the cider after it has been crashed. It will taste better than it does now when it is cleared and cold.

Don't boil your cider. You can pasteurize it by heating to 60C and holding it there for 20 minutes.

How much depends on the sugar content. Measure the gravity. If your hydrometer has a Brix scale, that tells you the grams of sugar per 100 ml (or maybe per 100 gm of solution, I forget which). If you don't have a Brix scale, divide the points by 4. 1.060 = 15 Brix. You'd want around 30 grams of sugar in 3.5L to carbonate.

sweet! Ok thanks for the information.

I will try both your recommendations. I`ve got the beer thing down, but things are just a bit different for cider and I really want to do my best to make it tasty!

A SG of 1.012? You still have .012 to .014 more gravity points to go before it's complete.
I would recommend steel bottles that can contain that much pressure.
Let it ferment out to a SG of 1.001 or lower before you think of backsweeting and bottling.

The point is *not* to let it ferment out to completion.

When it ferments out, all of the apple sugar will be gone, leaving nothing but acids. Backsweetening should not be part of a "recipe". It is what one does to salvage a batch that went to far.

We are not making beer here. We are making cider. It has its own process.

For all you experienced beer makers - lets say someone gave you an all grain recipe which resulted in a great wort, and then the recipe called for some sort of turbo yeast to ferment the wort down so far that it basically tasted like sour water. Then dump a bunch of chemicals into your beer and backsweeten with a can of malt extract or maybe some splenda. Would anyone actually do that? But that is what the "conventional wisdom" on this board seems to be for cider.

I don't know- I'm more of a wine maker, than a brewer. Maybe I'm just not risky enough, but I would never, ever, never, ever, bottle a cider before it's done fermenting. Sure, you may not have a problem. Or you could give the cider as a gift and someone keeps it at room temperature and the bottle blows up.

The cider can undergo MLF in the bottle, since no sulfites are used. Even if you bottle at 1.012, and cold crash and all that- you have no way to really prevent MLF and bottle bombs.

I understand that you make things differently, but please don't ridicule the rest of us who do things the way we do. There is a reason.

I'm sorry Yooper - I didnt mean to insult or ridicule anyone. I have picked up a lot of useful tips in the past couple of year from reading this board, and I appreciate that.

That said, surely you and others realize that no commercial cidery employs anything close to the methods generally espoused on this site (ferment to dryness then either add k-meta, sorbate, backsweeten and keg, or add artificial sweetener, sugar, and bottle carb). The really great ones (Foggy Ridge, Etienne Dupont, JK Scrumpy, Aspalls, Samuel Smith, etc) dont add anything but apples, yeast, and sometimes some sulfite at the end. Etienne Dupont doesnt even use sulfite and they advertise a 30 month shelf life! I bought a 2007 Bouche a couple of weeks ago and it was great. SG was 1.020 and it was sitting on a shelf at room temp! JKS is even higher, at 1.024 and like ED, the only ingredients are apples and yeast. No one worries about that stuff blowing up.

I've been giving bottles away to friends and family for years. Its mostly been stored at room temperature and none of it has blown up. But yeah, I would never give away a bottle if I thought that there was any chance that it might still be fermenting.

If you cold crash and do it right, it wont ferment anymore.

Given that this is the OP's first time cold crashing, it was probably bad advice on my part to say its OK to rack from the crashed jug straight to bottles. Yeah, you can do this with S04, but for the first time, it would be less risky to rack back to another jug with an airlock, keep it at room temp, and then make sure that sucker doesnt move for at least a week before going to bottles. When you've crashed a few times and no problems, then you can start thinking about minimizing steps. The most important thing in my experience is not to try to get all the cider on the last rack - even if it looks clear, leave a few oz per gallon on the last rack - that is where the yeast will be.

CvilleKevin said:

I'm sorry Yooper - I didnt mean to insult or ridicule anyone. I have picked up a lot of useful tips in the past couple of year from reading this board, and I appreciate that.

That said, surely you and others realize that no commercial cidery employs anything close to the methods generally espoused on this site (ferment to dryness then either add k-meta, sorbate, backsweeten and keg, or add artificial sweetener, sugar, and bottle carb). The really great ones (Foggy Ridge, Etienne Dupont, JK Scrumpy, Aspalls, Samuel Smith, etc) dont add anything but apples, yeast, and sometimes some sulfite at the end. Etienne Dupont doesnt even use sulfite and they advertise a 30 month shelf life! I bought a 2007 Bouche a couple of weeks ago and it was great. SG was 1.020 and it was sitting on a shelf at room temp! JKS is even higher, at 1.024 and like ED, the only ingredients are apples and yeast. No one worries about that stuff blowing up.

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Well, sure they do it differently. I also do it a bit differently- I keg, so I can bottle to any level of carbonation I want. Some places pasteurize their cider, or filter it, to remove any active yeast. Some don't.

My point is that there is more than one way to make what you like. Caution is always important, and sometimes new brewers/winemakers/cidermakers want it done fast. That's fine, and there are ways to do it but safety is always a concern.

I've never had a bottle bomb of any sort. It's not something that I'd be willing to risk under any circumstances. I do have quite a bit of experience. CvilleKevin has plenty of experience, too, and it's valuable to hear about different ways to get to where you want to go. It's great to hear about different techniques, and procedures.

well so...I think if I cold crash 2-3 days at 10C and transfer and repeat the process a second time before bottling, is my cider going to be ok? There isn`t that much of it so if it doesn`t taste like complete merde I am going to drink it quite fast

Yes - you'll be fine.

I go straight from the first cold crash to bottles all the time - on most of my experimental one gallon batches, and never had a problem. But it wouldnt hurt to wait a few days, just to make sure the crash is really complete. OTOH, even if you dont nail the crash completely, you will have slowed the yeast down to the point where, if it does ferment, it will do so veerrry slowly - probably more slowly than you can drink it if you only have a gallon.

You may not even need to wait 2-3 days on the crash if you use ice. My friend who used the ice bucket got his beautifully clear in just a day. Probably because his crash temp was colder than mine

The only concern I would have is if you are going to be bottling, and leaving the bottles at room temperature for a long time.
Until you know how the yeast will react it would be on the prudent side to keep the bottles in the fridge. I have never had a bottle bomb, but I have had a few corks pop out on me, no harm I just covered the top, put in the fridge and drank it a day later.
My advice and process with cider is on the side of caution. But then I also keg my cider and bottle from the keg when I think it is ready.