Clone Brews

When I read the posts on here, I notice that many brewers tell what they have on tap or are in the process of brewing. Many are so called "clone brews" and I'm curious. Do you clone commercially available beer because (a) its not available in your area? (b) its cheaper? (c) just to see if you can do it?

I must admit that it has never dawned on me to try to brew something I can buy anytime I want. I don't mean that I don't brew, say, an APA -- only that I wouldn't go out of my way to hunt up a clone recipe of Sierra Neveda Pale Ale or Victory Hop Devil. They are plentiful, fresh and cheap 12 months a year around here.

I like Vienna Lager but I definitely DON'T want a Dos Equis clone.

I brew pretty normal stuff, from session beers to barley wines and have also done meads, ciders and wines from blackberries my wife and I picked. Some are good and some not so good, but much of the fun comes from knowing that, for the most part, I thunk 'em up my own self.

I started with clone kits because it's a good way to see if your end product came out right since you know what the beer is supposed to taste like

For me, the commercial beers represent a target that I want to get close to. I have never tried to brew a beer simply because I want to replicate some commercial brew. Rather, I want to get a recipe close to the tastes I like in the commercial example, and then tweak it from there. Sure beats starting from scratch (although I do that too, for fun).

I think you will find that very few people follow clone recipes to the letter. Most folks modify them a little to further suit their tastes. I mean, if you love a beer, starting with a clone of it is a good way of increasing the odds you'll get something you enjoy.

And yes, I think it is fun to figure out how certain beers are made and try to copy, or improve them. Afterall, it's no small feat to replicate something on a small scale that's sold by a company with millions of dollars in fancy equipment...

teu1003 said:

...I wouldn't go out of my way to hunt up a clone recipe of Sierra Neveda Pale Ale or Victory Hop Devil. They are plentiful, fresh and cheap 12 months a year around here.

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Two things:

1) I can brew 10 gallons of my Nierra Sevada -aka SNPA (which I've been told by two folks here who have brewed it that it's spot on)...for about 30 cents a bottle. I can also have it on tap.

B) I can tweak the recipe to correct for universally accepted downfalls. Like My Newcastle Brown. A common complaint about the commercial version is that there is very little to no head and absolutely no lacing. My NewCastle not only tastes very close, it has a nice luscious head and lacing on the glass that lasts until the end.

BierMuncher said:

Two things:

1) I can brew 10 gallons of my Nierra Sevada -aka SNPA (which I've been told by two folks here who have brewed it that it's spot on)...for about 30 cents a bottle. I can also have it on tap.

B) I can tweak the recipe to correct for universally accepted downfalls. Like My Newcastle Brown. A common complaint is that there is very little to no head and absolutely no lacing. My NewCastle not only tastes very close, it ahs a nice luscious head and lacing on the glass that lasts until the end.

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I feel another beer swap coming on.....

I started brewing clones to judge how my brews were turning out. Then I started tweaking them to my preferences. Now I brew clones for beers I cannot regularly obtain.

TheJadedDog said:

I started brewing clones to judge how my brews were turning out. Then I started tweaking them to my preferences. Now I brew clones for beers I cannot regularly obtain.

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Exactly. You gotta start with a base preference. If you like Pales, then brewing a stout doesn't make sense. If you're gonna brew a Pale, find a commercial you like and follow their lead. THen, improve on it to meet your preferences.

I've just finished brewing my first Clone (Honker's Ale) and have just ordered my second Clone (Stone IPA). I did the first and I want to see if I can come close to the original. It lets me know I'm doing something right The second is because I've heard such good things about this beer and I can't find it ANYWHERE around me.

Eric

i started doing clone brews to get a better feeling of what styles use what ingredients and how the different mixtures influence the final flavor. none of the clone brews i've made have turned out exactly like the commercial versions, but they've all been great beers.

my gulden draak clone has been over six months in the making. almost ready to bottle. i think i'm going to call it "silver dragon" or something silly

While we all agree that Home Brew is great, there are some commercial brews out there that define the style. By knowing the ingredients in these brews, we can learn more about the are of recipe formation.

I go for clones because I still haven't a clue what I'm doing! It's a great way to learn the ropes, and although I haven't done any side by side comparisons, I'm pretty sure that I'd fail miserably if I tried to pass them off as what they're supposedly clones of. But they're still nice beers, and so I tweak them to be more like how I want them to be, rather than how they're "supposed" to be.

i mostly use them as a base for what i'm brewing. sometimes you can't find the grain/hops your looking for locally or you might have to hunt around at a few online sites to get all you need.

there are times i follow ingredients to the letter and its a good way of seeing how you are doing or what you could improve on. i dont think any clone brew i've found and followed came out just like what i was shooting for, but they always taste good.

teu1003 said:

When I read the posts on here, I notice that many brewers tell what they have on tap or are in the process of brewing. Many are so called "clone brews" and I'm curious. Do you clone commercially available beer because (a) its not available in your area? (b) its cheaper? (c) just to see if you can do it?

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SWMBO is from Australia. Her favorite beer is something called Redback (from Matilda Bay Brewing) which isn't available here in the States. I've never had one, but from their web site and interviews with their head brewer I was able to find out which hops they use, what the OG is, what the ratio of wheat to barley is, and what the IBUs are.

Armed with that knowledge, I formulated a recipe, posted it over at aussiehomebrewer to get some feedback, and went back and forth a few times until I had something we thought was workable.

Now the Brown Recluse Kristalweizen is in the secondary, and hopefully it'll come out somewhere near the original or at least as something SWMBO enjoys--and I've never had a kristalweizen so it should be interesting for me, too!

teu1003 said:

When I read the posts on here, I notice that many brewers tell what they have on tap or are in the process of brewing. Many are so called "clone brews" and I'm curious. Do you clone commercially available beer because (a) its not available in your area? (b) its cheaper? (c) just to see if you can do it?

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A) Yes. For example, I am a huge fan of Fat Tire, but when I moved to South Dakota, I learned that New Belgium doesn't distribute here. I have a few friends at work who drive to Wyoming just to get the stuff. If the AHS clone I have brewing comes out fairly close, I can keep it on hand at all times.

B) That too. ~$30 for a 5 gallon batch (2 X 24 packs) is much better than the average price for craft or import beer here, which generally comes out to >$1 per 12oz bottle.

C) As they've already said, being able to do it is only half the battle. I have a huge Bob the Builder complex about beer. Can I brew it?!? Yes I can!! Even better is the ability to modify it to my tastes. Think Guinness would taste better without that sour twang? Leave out the sour beer. Do you wish Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout had just a bit more hop flavor? Dry hop with a few ounces of Kent Goldings. Clones really are a lot of fun to do, and it's always neat to tweak and experiment.

I've done two clones. One is of a beer that was produced in 2004 and never again. The other is of a local IPA that is 8 bucks a bomber and worth every penny, but only comes out once a year.

Clones are an awesome way of honing your skill. Being able to match what someone else has done is not easy, so it really makes you work on your process. I am actually wanting to do more, but I have not gotten the time to do so just yet.

It's got to be great to get seasonal brews out of season too. Hopslam in August sounds nice to me.

I've brewed one clone that I'll brew multiple times. 1. It is cheaper. 2. It's a seasonal brew so you can only get it in the winter. 3. I've meet the owners of the brewery multiple times and every time they rubbed me the wrong way. So i said to myself "I will never buy another one of their beers but I'll brew their best beer myself when ever I feel like it".

I wasn't much for cloning either, but then I got into Arrogant Bastard and I always want to have some on hand. At $4.25 a bomber it can add up. I thought wouldn't it be great if I could brew that. Then there's Pliney the Elder which isn't available where I'm at, so I'm gonna try that one too. It's gonna be fun seeing how close I can get to replicating those beers, and It mixes things up a little bit.

+10 on the Arrogant Bastard I live that stuff and It is on my to do list. I am just waiting for the Chinook to arrive.

llazy_llama said:

A) Yes. For example, I am a huge fan of Fat Tire, but when I moved to South Dakota, I learned that New Belgium doesn't distribute here. I have a few friends at work who drive to Wyoming just to get the stuff. If the AHS clone I have brewing comes out fairly close, I can keep it on hand at all times.

B) That too. ~$30 for a 5 gallon batch (2 X 24 packs) is much better than the average price for craft or import beer here, which generally comes out to >$1 per 12oz bottle.

C) As they've already said, being able to do it is only half the battle. I have a huge Bob the Builder complex about beer. Can I brew it?!? Yes I can!! Even better is the ability to modify it to my tastes. Think Guinness would taste better without that sour twang? Leave out the sour beer. Do you wish Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout had just a bit more hop flavor? Dry hop with a few ounces of Kent Goldings. Clones really are a lot of fun to do, and it's always neat to tweak and experiment.

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Fat tire is my favorite beer of all time. I would love to get a recipe so i could
even come close to it. If it wouldnt be to much trouble pm me a simple start
as i am a noobie for sure. Cheers.

sixer of stone ruination= $18.70 50 bottles brewed at home= pricless.Well about 40 bucks,but you see what I'm getting at

Joos said:

sixer of stone ruination= $18.70 50 bottles brewed at home= pricless.Well about 40 bucks,but you see what I'm getting at

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Link to recipe of ruination? I cant get Stone in IL

RC0032 said:

Link to recipe of ruination? I cant get Stone in IL

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I have found many "clones" using the wrong hops.So I took the average grain bill and The hops from the stone website and came up with this.PM
5 lb.s american 2row
1 lbs. crystal 15l
6 lbs. super light LME late addition(bout 15 mins)
2 OZ. colombus @60
1 OZ. centeniel @30
1 OZ. centeniel @5
2 OZ. centeniel dryhop.

It's really good stuff

Joos said:

I have found many "clones" using the wrong hops.So I took the average grain bill and The hops from the stone website and came up with this.PM
5 lb.s american 2row
1 lbs. crystal 15l
6 lbs. super light LME late addition(bout 15 mins)
2 OZ. colombus @60
1 OZ. centeniel @30
1 OZ. centeniel @5
2 OZ. centeniel dryhop.

It's really good stuff

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Here's the AG recipe from Brew 365. Little different.
Stone Ruination IPA Recipe ::: Brew365 - Homebrewing Recipes and Articles

And you can get Ruination just over the border in Wisconsin at Woodman's. They have a pretty good Stone Brewery selection actually.

^^^thats what I was saying.Everyone Iv'e found has the right grains,and wrong bittering hops.Not that it'll matter all that much but stonebrew.com says colombus bittering.Most recipes Iv'e found say magnum or warrior.Just my 2cents.Also I'd have to disagree on the cara-pills.Ruination is a very light moutfeel.Just seems a little thicker cuz of the turn your face inside out hoppyness.

Once you start buying in bulk and brewing with grains the savings are there if you were to amortize your equipment.

I agree on the whole thing about clones being different, some use hop substitutions or just different in general, but for example here is the Ruination recipe from BYO and the price it would cost me.

14lb 2oz 2-row - $9.20
14oz C15 - $1.30
2.25oz magnum - $5
1.5oz cent -
2.0oz cent 3.5 totall - $6
irish mosh - .25
WLP002 - already have washed WLP002
spoon full of ph 5.2 - .25

These amounts are over what I usually pay, but for this purpose they are fine.

So for ingredients only, I am at $22 based on 65% efficiency, but I brew at about 85%, so that is a 20% discount I guess or right around $18 in rough numbers.

Toss in a couple bucks for propane and I guess my time is worth nothing

I don't really brew clones per se (fancy french sp?) but I do try to combine grains or hops to get certain flavors I taste in my favorite beers. I'm currently working on a grain bill that will mimic Calico Amber. I'd like to use the malt flavors and change the hops to make an amber ale that I believe would be the finest ever created.

mrwooten said:

Fat tire is my favorite beer of all time. I would love to get a recipe so i could
even come close to it. If it wouldnt be to much trouble pm me a simple start
as i am a noobie for sure. Cheers.

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Midwest has a clone called "Flat Tire" that I'm fermenting now.