The Recipe is still in progress. If all H&ll breaks loose and your batch is a failure - you are forgiven - and keep your eyes open for the #-#-# batch for next year to try again.
12-12-12 Wee Heavy Recipe Formulation
- Thread starter smokinghole
- Start date
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statseeker
Well-Known Member
We need to agree on a base and so far MO is winning. That much HAS to be agreed upon. The rest, there's wiggle room but the essense of the recipe and process has to be in stone. If we want total agreement, we wont find it most likely. I would say put it up to a vote, but I have a feeling MO would still win.
As far as what happens if stuff hits the fan? I would say ferment at ambient temperature. I have a feeling the brewers of old didnt have refrigeration to keep their beer at the perfect temperature. They may have had cellaring, but that was a different day. Plus it's gonna be aging for over a year. I wouldnt keep my fermenting fridge tied up for a year or more with one beer. Keep it in the coolest closet in your place and ignore it. RDWHAHB
OP
OP
Since there seems to be so much choice for minor variation I say we make some minor concessions.
Base can be Maris Otter or Golden Promise. Sure the flavor will be different but that might add a nice variety. I like the idea of a small amount of roast barley. Dark crystal would be a good addition but I think with the boiled down runnings and long boil will more than make up for the dark crystal if we leave it out.
The hops I feel should be EKGs. Of course any UK hops would be proper.
I want to use a yeast that will throw off smokey phenols at low temps. I personally do not want to add smoked malt. That's where I think there needs to be a decision made.
Do we add a small amount of smoked malt or just use the proper yeast at the proper temps to get the smoke flavor? I know yeast can make the smoke flavor. Granted it is probably the brett but in my 11-11-11 Old Ale there is a smokiness.
If no one wants to agree on the smoked malt vs no smoked malt then I suggest we split into two groups. Each half can trade among themselves or between both groups if the individual wishes. That might actually be interesting to do for a comparison.
Base can be Maris Otter or Golden Promise. Sure the flavor will be different but that might add a nice variety. I like the idea of a small amount of roast barley. Dark crystal would be a good addition but I think with the boiled down runnings and long boil will more than make up for the dark crystal if we leave it out.
The hops I feel should be EKGs. Of course any UK hops would be proper.
I want to use a yeast that will throw off smokey phenols at low temps. I personally do not want to add smoked malt. That's where I think there needs to be a decision made.
Do we add a small amount of smoked malt or just use the proper yeast at the proper temps to get the smoke flavor? I know yeast can make the smoke flavor. Granted it is probably the brett but in my 11-11-11 Old Ale there is a smokiness.
If no one wants to agree on the smoked malt vs no smoked malt then I suggest we split into two groups. Each half can trade among themselves or between both groups if the individual wishes. That might actually be interesting to do for a comparison.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
I agree there should be some wiggle room left in the recipe for individual preferences. I, for one, will be using Golden Promise as the base, and not adding smoked malt. There can be an option for the trade where each person can register as a smoked or unsmoked beer, and each person can list their preference to receive either smoked, unsmoked, or both in the trade.
For the oak aging, that can also be something up to the individual brewer. I've been thinking more on how I would want to imitate old wood, and I think what I'm going to do is buy a bottle of neutral spirit (whether it is vodka, corn liquor or whatever depends on what the store has) and I'll toast and char a bit of seasoned white oak and throw that in the liquor to sit for a few months. That should get a lot of the tannins and sugars out. I'll then put the stick outside in a shaded/wooded area and let it season there for another couple months before collecting it, boiling it, and throwing it in the secondary with my 12/12/12. Crazy? Maybe.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Something else I'd kind of like to vent about for a minute. A lot of people add their input to these collaboration recipes and the recipes get pulled several different directions. Finally something is settled on that is a compromise between dozens of people, but then when trade time comes around, only a handful participate. In the 10/10/10 swap I organized, I think there were 5 people trading. The 11/11/11 swap still hasn't been organized and it looks like if I don't do it, no one will. So I'll organize that swap and we'll see how many participants we have, but I can assure you it will be much much less than the number of people who tried to sway the recipe.
That sucks. But with something like this, it seems to be the nature of the beast. At the very least it's fun for individuals to come together and formulate a recipe together and then taste the end results. And, I might like it if only half dozen or so participated in the swap, less shipping costs/person. I do understand your frustration though KBI.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Each person will only send to three other people no matter how many participants there are. At what can be over $20 shipping per package, that is still a lot of money.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
KingBrianI said:
$20 per parcel? How much does one usually ship in these things?
Ezekielsays
Well-Known Member
Wow. I had no idea there were so few people actually doing the trade. I had this image of hundreds of people shipping and sipping great beers.
As for the recipe, my vote is on golden promise, no crystal, no smoke, a little roasted , and the oak I'm ambivalent on. Granted, I'm inexperienced and have only the slightest idea what I'm doing, so ignore my opinion as you see fit. No hard feelings.
As for the recipe, my vote is on golden promise, no crystal, no smoke, a little roasted , and the oak I'm ambivalent on. Granted, I'm inexperienced and have only the slightest idea what I'm doing, so ignore my opinion as you see fit. No hard feelings.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
I usually ship 6-8 12 oz. bottles to each person. That includes 2 of the x/x/x beers and then a sampling of other beers I've made I think they might enjoy. I'm in NC so if I ship to WA or CA it is usually over $20. If I'm shipping to somewhere closer it is probably $15 or so.
Yea. $60 shipping probably deters most people from participating. I wonder if you made it so that everyone had to provide some sort of feedback on the they beers received, if that would help with participation. It could be as simple as 'hey man, really enjoyed your beer last night. Thanks for shipping it' or as complex as a BJCP score sheet. That way you're not just shipping beers to random people, never to hear about it again. Just an idea.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
You can look here to see what kind of critiquing happened for the 10-10-10. Getting in-depth feedback on your beers is always great and everyone did a really good job on the 10-10-10 swap. In some previous swaps there were several people who didn't post any reviews. Or posted something like "I tried your beer last night. I was wasted and can't really remember much about it but it was good." which is disappointing. I think it should be a requirement that if you choose to participate, you agree to review the beers you receive. It's no fun to send someone beer only to never hear from them again.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
$60 into this thing doesn't scare me... I also love the idea of sharing other beers than what's on the agenda
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I enjoy tasting other's homebrew as much as getting feedback on my own. It's fun to try to pull out ingredients and flavors from a beer someone else made. And most of them are really great and I've gotten many good ideas from trying them. And hopefully I'm able to provide some suggestions when a beer has flaws to help the brewer improve. It's a win-win, but I realize not everyone wants to evaluate a beer when they could just drink it.
azscoob
Brewpub coming soon!
I will be using Golden Promise, EKG, and roasted barley, (unless other ingredients find their way into the base recipe) I would like to keep it as simple as possible.
Tossing the idea around of making two 5 gallon batches, one made with the first runnings caramelized on the burner and then aged in the oak barrel.
The second batch caramelized over an open fire and simply kegged for aging.
I think the same base recipe used for both but post mash go in different directions would be a fun project that should yield vastly different beers, both of which would qualify as a 12-12-12 beer.
Tossing the idea around of making two 5 gallon batches, one made with the first runnings caramelized on the burner and then aged in the oak barrel.
The second batch caramelized over an open fire and simply kegged for aging.
I think the same base recipe used for both but post mash go in different directions would be a fun project that should yield vastly different beers, both of which would qualify as a 12-12-12 beer.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
azscoob
Brewpub coming soon!
You never get beers in return to enjoy when you enter comps!
statseeker
Well-Known Member
I did the 11-11-11 brew but I need to wait until at least mid October to even bottle it, if not December. I did it in February, so my concern is bottle bombs. It's re-pellicling heavy duty as I write this. It's been slowly covering over since about late August. Maybe I can bottle it now with about 2/3 of the normal amount of corn sugar for a similar gravity. I really want about 2.2 volumes.
As far as this 12-12-12 goes, I'm down for doing it any way that's agreed upon.
As far as this 12-12-12 goes, I'm down for doing it any way that's agreed upon.
Regulation
Well-Known Member
Subscribed
kegdawg
Well-Known Member
Count me in.
JuanKenobi
Well-Known Member
This will be my first time participating in this thing, but I am definitely in for the swap. As for the recipe, I'm also new to the style, but have always been interested. I've already learned some things that I would have done wrong on my own. For what it's worth I'll be going the simple grain bill route. Golden Promise base for me. Definitely no smoked malt and maybe a split batch with oak on one.
LVBen
Well-Known Member
The shipping $ is why I will pass on the swap. However, I'd be happy to brew it on my own and post some tasting notes.
I am planning on organizing something similar for my local homebrew club. It just seems more practical to cut out the shipping costs.
I am planning on organizing something similar for my local homebrew club. It just seems more practical to cut out the shipping costs.
Cromwell
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm definitely in for the swap, unless an earthquake or something happens.
Golden Promise, some roasted, no crystal, EKG, no smoked malt. (Although I don't mind swapping with someone who does use smoked malt. I'd hope it wasn't overwhelming.)
I might do a second batch with just a hint of (non-peat) smoked malt. If I have to age it for a year, and then find out it's awesome, I'm not going to want to wait a year to get more.
Oh, wait, am I showing addiction signs? Planning the next brew before I've even started this one?
Golden Promise, some roasted, no crystal, EKG, no smoked malt. (Although I don't mind swapping with someone who does use smoked malt. I'd hope it wasn't overwhelming.)
I might do a second batch with just a hint of (non-peat) smoked malt. If I have to age it for a year, and then find out it's awesome, I'm not going to want to wait a year to get more.
Oh, wait, am I showing addiction signs? Planning the next brew before I've even started this one?
commonsenseman
Well-Known Member
So far all good suggestions. I'd like to use some smoked malt in mine, but only a very small amount. I want the main flavor to be caramel with some smoke/peat in the background.
The pass would eat up most of a 2.5gal batch, so I might just have to make two!
If it were up to me, I'd set very few recipe limitations. I think it'll be interesting to see how different they come out. The only limitation I'd set it that it has to be within bjcp specs.
The pass would eat up most of a 2.5gal batch, so I might just have to make two!
If it were up to me, I'd set very few recipe limitations. I think it'll be interesting to see how different they come out. The only limitation I'd set it that it has to be within bjcp specs.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
commonsenseman said:
I think it would be interesting to implement MORE limitations and see how different they come out, due to different grain sourcing, water, and brewing practice.
OP
OP
I think we should set the hops, target gravity, boil length, and the recipe percentages. The base grain can be a variable but not the specialty grain other than the source.
Here's my idea. 30ish IBUs EKG or Target. 1-2% roasted barley and the rest MO or Golden Promise. Fermentation control will be a variable as will water and specific hops used. I think the yeast used can be chosen by the brewery as long as it's appropriate.
Here's my idea. 30ish IBUs EKG or Target. 1-2% roasted barley and the rest MO or Golden Promise. Fermentation control will be a variable as will water and specific hops used. I think the yeast used can be chosen by the brewery as long as it's appropriate.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Since scottish ales have no hop presence I don't see any point to limiting the hop choice. Any british hop should work with very little difference.
OP
OP
That's how I feel personally but I know some guys in the world of brewing think bittering hops matter.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't personally use 1 ounces of EKG when I would use one ounce of nugget...
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
smokinghole said:
I think in some cases it may... you wouldn't want to bitter your wee heavy with simcoe for example, but that's an extreme example
OP
OP
Well within reason of course. I figure if it's on the earthy side of things it shouldn't matter.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Additional, specialty, malts should be allowed as long as they are there to enhance the brew. I'm not a fan of carapils, but I do enjoy what different British caramel/crystal malts bring to a brew. Over 90% of my grain bill is Maris Otter. The remainder is spread over three different malts, two of which are from the UK. I think that >95% of the grist should be UK malts. That can be a hard parameter... It limits what we'll be able to use, but not hinder our creativity in the recipe formulation and brewing.
Obviously I've been tweaking my recipe some since I posted one up.
I'm set to use all EKG for my hops (have just under 3# of pellets in the freezer). Going with UK hops should be a hard parameter. Which hop you use, should be left up to the brewer.
Using oak, or not, should also be completely up to the brewer. Personally, my first wee heavy did very well with a medium toast oak cube aging spell. I plan to repeat the experience with the new batch.
Something else that could be rather fitting... If we can have the brew day in November of this year. Even better if you can hit 1.111 for your OG...
Obviously I've been tweaking my recipe some since I posted one up.
I'm set to use all EKG for my hops (have just under 3# of pellets in the freezer). Going with UK hops should be a hard parameter. Which hop you use, should be left up to the brewer.
Using oak, or not, should also be completely up to the brewer. Personally, my first wee heavy did very well with a medium toast oak cube aging spell. I plan to repeat the experience with the new batch.
Something else that could be rather fitting... If we can have the brew day in November of this year. Even better if you can hit 1.111 for your OG...
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Lookie what I got!
Gonna toast and char some oak this weekend and drop it in. Still haven't decided whether to bury the oak in some peat or just leave it out in the rain and sun for a few months after it has a couple months in the drink. Might be a game time decision. Or I could take two chunks of oak, do one treatment on one and the other treatment on the second, then decide which smells better before dropping it in the 12/12/12. This is what you call innovation folks.
Gonna toast and char some oak this weekend and drop it in. Still haven't decided whether to bury the oak in some peat or just leave it out in the rain and sun for a few months after it has a couple months in the drink. Might be a game time decision. Or I could take two chunks of oak, do one treatment on one and the other treatment on the second, then decide which smells better before dropping it in the 12/12/12. This is what you call innovation folks.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
KingBrianI said:
Hey I like the looks of that stuff! Its got soul
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