ALL beers - extract AND all grain taste bad. Please help me with new suggestions

I'll start with I am a perfectionist... All beers have been "drinkable" but have an off taste that bothers me too much that I'd rather buy beer. There is an astringent like feel that is very hard to explain. There is a bad bitter in the back followed immediately by an alka seltzer mouthfeel.

Oddly enough I swear I taste it as early as the end of boil/chill phase.

So BEFORE the pitch and ferment, etc. Wort comiing from Mash tun is nice and sweet.

I've tried so many variables, the last being water and it is still there. Getting very disheartening and I don't want to give up yet. Here is what I have brewed in order.

5gal extract Oatmeal Stout kit. -spring water (ice mountain) WPL yst starter
5gal English Brown ale kit. -spring water (ice mountain) WPL yst starter
5gal Apelwein - Spring water (ice mountain) Danstar sprinkled
5gal Haus Pale Ale - Filtered tap Nottingham hydrated
5gal Elk Drool brown ale - Filtered tap WPL Yst starter
5gal Centennial Blonde - Spring water (Besco bottled) Notty dry hydrated
5gal Centennial Blonde - RO water (meijer machine) added salts based on yoopers water starter thread to mash. Notty dry hydrated.

Extracts and All grain gear was different except same homemade copper chiller.

Things I have tried...
Thought it was PH so tried many different types of water. The last being RO with salts. Also added 2% sour malt to mash on that one. So think water isn't it.

Can't be my grain, crush, mash, etc.. because I had the exact taste in my extract brews. Steeped grains but never over 155.

I've done yeast starters and also dry. I ferment in a basement closet that sits at ambient of 60 in the dark.

Only kettle additions I've done are Irish moss, tried a wirfloc once. I also use fermcap, a few drops for foam control. Extracts had only fermcap.

I do brew electric, so tried making sure I stirred the wort till it came to a boil on this last batch as it was suggested the sugar could be burning.

I chill with an immersion chiller that sits in the boil the last 15 minutes. This has been used in all batches, but can copper that looks fine really change the flavor that much? It did sit in starsan for a week once... but it isn't shiny.

My process...

Heat water in HLT with heatsticks(2 1500watt) send 165 strike water to 10gal cooler with braid, add crushed grain (barely crusher at 1pm and have tried conditioning malt), mash @ temp (150-155) for 50-60 minutes, vorlauf a gallon or so then drain to BK. Add 170 strike water, stir, let sit for 10 minutes, vorlauf again, drain to BK.

I taste runnings and have checked gravity not to go too low. I end up boiling 7-8 gallons normally.

1 hour boil, not a crazy fast boil. My extracts were done on a stove though, so think I can rule out the heatsticks.

Chill to 70, drain to fermenter through a funnel with a fine filter., shake like mad for 5min (better bottle with tenis ball)

Pitch yeast, take to basement.

I have fermented in a primary only and the first 4 batches were left 4-6 weeks, the last 2 centennials were 3 weeks, but supposedly it can grain to glass if kegged in 10 days.

I keg and throw in fridge.

Gear:
2 9gallon SS pots with valves, cooler mashtun with SS braid. BK has false bottom.

Was positive it was the water, but the last batch with RO was just as bad.
Can't be the yeast type because I've used 3-4 different types.
Pretty sure flavor is there before going to fermenter though.

Thought it was grain in BK causing it, but vorlaufed a lot, and also had this flavor in my extracts.

So could it really be a copper chiller? Could I test by boiling water and tasting?

I like most all beer I've had besides mine! I love hoppy beers, but this isn't a good bitter.

I tasted the sludge on the last batch when I kegged and it had the same sharp bitter flavor, but I figure any hope/yeast material will have that. Just thought yeast was supposed to clean up the beer not spread that flavor.

What a book, sorry, but getting very very frustrated..

10 hours of work to check each variable and still haven't nailed it.

I wish I could get someone to taste it and help out

Will homebrew shops or breweries do that at all legally?

Also, I have read all the major brewing books. Some twice. So either I suck at comprehending or just missing a variable to try here.

Cliffs:

Extract and all grain have same bad flavor.
Used different yeast and water including building up from yoopers RO thread.
Pretty sure I taste it before pitching anyways.
Copper chiller only gear that has been used in both extract and all grain.

You're obviously no rookie as you seem to have an idea of what the problems may be, so I would suggest a couple of things:
1. I think it is still your water. Next brew, go to the store and buy 10 gallons of bottled spring water. (Not distilled). Use this and only this.
2. Get a partial mash or extract kit of Caribou Slobber from NB. I say this because this was my first kit and it was extremely awesome- if I didn't mess it up you shouldn't be able to.
3. Get 2 gallon plastice containers from Wal-Mart. Sanitize them and pour 2 gallons of Spring water into them and freeze. Do not use the chiller.
4. After doing the boil on stove top (or burner outside), put in ice bath in sink and then dump the frozen ice blocks directly into wort. This will cold crash down to about 60 in 15 minutes. Leave top OFF during boil. Leave top ON during cooling.
5. Strain wort directly into (carboy preferably) through a funnel with a paint strainer bag stretched over it (get these at HD for cheap).
6. Ferment for 3 weeks (or longer if fermentation is not done) and then bottle for 3 weeks before drinking. Put in the fridge for 2 nights before drinking. If this does not come out good, I don't know what to tell you.
7. If you would rather have a hoppier beer than a brown ale, go with their Warrior IPA and buy an extra oz of Warrior hops to dry hop.

If you cannot figure out the problem, start back over and see if you cannot correct it, then progress until problem arises again and you can pin point the issue. Good luck.

From an empirical, strictly observational standpoint, your problem may be the immersion chiller. Do this-- boil regular water and cool it with your IC. Taste the water. If it's not astringent, then I would double check your mash pH.

Also, with the copper chiller, are you just throwing in at the end, or do you boil it for last 10 minutes? Are you sure it is 100% copper without lead? Any welds?

Boom, I have used bottled spring in most. RO with salts on the last batch. Even filtered had the same flavor. So 3+ water sources. Odd I know.
I like your idea about going back to a darker extract kit, but I think I might use distilled since the minerals should be in the extract, but not thinking this will help me figure out the issue.

The copper chiller was made from a 25 foot coil from Lowes. I guess I will have to inspect if it is infact 100% copper, but pretty sure I knew to look for 100% when I got it. No welds no. I do throw it in with 15 minutes left in the boil now, but in the beginning I would just soak it in starsan for a few. Both ways, same flavor. So don't think it is from boiling the chiller now that I think about it.

Mmmmm.

My mash PH was a concern for a while, I tested with strips which I know suck. So that is why I went with RO water as a guy who works at Bells told me Meijer RO water tested at 5.6 on his nice PH meter.

So that, plus 3# Aciduated malt, and 1/2 tsp of calcium chloride should have done away with any high PH concerns.

I also added a bit of 88% lactic to the sparge water to make sure I was down a bit.

seems I've ruled everything out and we know that isn't right... Ruh RO.

Maybe I need to consider the flavor/mouthfeel as being from different sources... Like the bad bitter right after the boil just being from hops that just cooked, and the alkaseltzer coming from the ferment...

I doubt it is the water since you've used such a varied process across the different brews and getting the same result.

The equipment shared across all the brews are:

the chiller
the fermenter
the boil kettle
the tubing
the sanitation process
the kegs
the kegging system

It's probably not the kettle or the fermenter. It may be the tubing, but that's probably a sanitation issue if the tubing is the problem.

You don't say what your sanitation process is. You said you're using starsan, are you using anything else? Any bleach being used?

The chiller might be a problem for various reasons. Your best bet is going to be removing it from a batch and see if the problem persists.

You said you kegged all of these. Is it possible you over-carbonated these beers? Over-carbonation would definitely give you an alka-seltzer mouthfeel and added astringency. Could you try lowering the pressure on the keg and taking a sample and see if it changes the effect?

ReverseApacheMaster said:

I doubt it is the water since you've used such a varied process across the different brews and getting the same result.

The equipment shared across all the brews are:

the chiller
the fermenter
the boil kettle
the tubing
the sanitation process
the kegs
the kegging system

It's probably not the kettle or the fermenter. It may be the tubing, but that's probably a sanitation issue if the tubing is the problem.

You don't say what your sanitation process is. You said you're using starsan, are you using anything else? Any bleach being used?

The chiller might be a problem for various reasons. Your best bet is going to be removing it from a batch and see if the problem persists.

You said you kegged all of these. Is it possible you over-carbonated these beers? Over-carbonation would definitely give you an alka-seltzer mouthfeel and added astringency. Could you try lowering the pressure on the keg and taking a sample and see if it changes the effect?

Click to expand...

Some interesting questions.
Fermenter, BK, Tubing have been changed.
I used Powdered Brewery Wash for cleaning, Starsan for sanitizing.
The chiller has been in every beer...The taste has been in every beer.... Gotta rule this one out.

I taste it horribly while racking to the keg so I know its prior to that. I also "think" I pick it up as its transfering to the fermenter.. I do carb to 12ish PSI serve at 40-42, so think that's normal.

Might just need to do a mini batch and not use the chiller. Just such a PITA to not use the fast cool method hehe.

TheSlash said:

Boom, I have used bottled spring in most. RO with salts on the last batch. Even filtered had the same flavor. So 3+ water sources. Odd I know.
I like your idea about going back to a darker extract kit, but I think I might use distilled since the minerals should be in the extract, but not thinking this will help me figure out the issue.

The copper chiller was made from a 25 foot coil from Lowes. I guess I will have to inspect if it is infact 100% copper, but pretty sure I knew to look for 100% when I got it. No welds no. I do throw it in with 15 minutes left in the boil now, but in the beginning I would just soak it in starsan for a few. Both ways, same flavor. So don't think it is from boiling the chiller now that I think about it.

Mmmmm.

My mash PH was a concern for a while, I tested with strips which I know suck. So that is why I went with RO water as a guy who works at Bells told me Meijer RO water tested at 5.6 on his nice PH meter.

So that, plus 3# Aciduated malt, and 1/2 tsp of calcium chloride should have done away with any high PH concerns.

I also added a bit of 88% lactic to the sparge water to make sure I was down a bit.

seems I've ruled everything out and we know that isn't right... Ruh RO.

Maybe I need to consider the flavor/mouthfeel as being from different sources... Like the bad bitter right after the boil just being from hops that just cooked, and the alkaseltzer coming from the ferment...

Click to expand...

I assume the 3# acid malt is a typo?

How about this? Do one proven recipe (an easy one) in a three gallon batch. A malty beer, not a hoppy beer. Maybe something really simple like the Dead Guy clone I have posted, or another simple malty ale. Use distilled water and no salts (or very, very little- we can help you get the bare minimum you need).

No chiller- use an ice bath in the sink for such a small batch. Pitch the correct amount of yeast- a brand new package of dry yeast would be best (no starter so you can rule out that). Use totally different hops than in the other batches- go buy some in the mylar package.

If this batch has the "flavor", then send a couple bottles to someone you "know" from this forum, preferably a BJCP judge.

It's just a thought, but what about fermentation temperature? Some people, depending on how they taste, sometimes interpret Acetaldehyde as being "metallic". It looks like your recent brews have all been ales. Are you keeping fermentation at 66º?

I saw a couple things that raised an eyebrow. I can't say for sure if they are the issue, but they could cause problems.

-Overtreatment of water
-Mishandling Immersion Chiller
and the biggest one....
-Insuffecient wort nutrients

To start, water is a funny thing. I guess I am pretty lucky, because I have looked at NJ water profiles, and right out of the tap, we have pretty nice water to brew with. However, I still think that it is easy to do more harm to your water than good. I would restart your process by just filtering your tap water through a high quality carbon filter, and remove the chloramines with 1/2 of a campden tablet for every 5 gallons of water. You have been all over the place with your water, basically changing it from batch to batch...keep it simple and standardized and eliminate it as a variable.

You comment about the immersion chiller being left in starsan for a week is a little concerning. I just relistened to the metals episode of brewstrong and Palmer was pretty clear that the acids in starsan will degrade copper over even a short amount of time - he said 1 hour of contact as a max. I have to assume that the chiller was mistreated, but I am not aware of how that mistreatment would translate into flavors in your beer. Still, it is something to think about.

Finally - look a little deeper into the environment you provide your yeast with. No one likes hearing this, but for a perfectionist, "shaking the carboy" is not cutting it. You will be absolutely amazed by the results you get with proper O2 levels in the wort at the start of fermentation. I promise - it is night and day. I started a pretty long thread about the results I found from switching to pure O2. Many people argued that you get suffecient O2 from shaking. However, none of those people had ever tried pure O2. You don't need to be a genious to see the problem there. The other environmental factors I would look at include the possible addition of a yeast nutrient (like White Labs Servo for example).

Finally, if you really want to get the beer to a next level, true temp control is a must have. It sounds like you really understand brewday processes, but close out your question talking about sticking the carboy in the basement around 60F for a few weeks. It seems like so much effort is put into making wort, but they the yeast is cut loose to do whatever it wants in the basement. If you want to see serious improvements, temp control is a must have.

Yooper said:

I assume the 3# acid malt is a typo?

How about this? Do one proven recipe (an easy one) in a three gallon batch. A malty beer, not a hoppy beer. Maybe something really simple like the Dead Guy clone I have posted, or another simple malty ale. Use distilled water and no salts (or very, very little- we can help you get the bare minimum you need).

No chiller- use an ice bath in the sink for such a small batch. Pitch the correct amount of yeast- a brand new package of dry yeast would be best (no starter so you can rule out that). Use totally different hops than in the other batches- go buy some in the mylar package.

If this batch has the "flavor", then send a couple bottles to someone you "know" from this forum, preferably a BJCP judge.

Click to expand...

Correct. 3%. I like the distilled and no salts idea. Last time I used your guide with RO water and 1/2 tsp cal chlor. I have used multiple types of hops. Kent Goldings, cascade, centennial, fuggles.. All in mylar and some picked up locally, cold.

The fermentation temp I had wondered about, but the closet stays a constant 60, and the stick on thermometer showed 70 while fermenting. Could the actual inside temp really be that much over 60? Isn't is safe under 80?

I also know I pitch with the wort at 70 and then put it in the 60 degree closet.. I don't have a way to get it to 60 fast, but if needed I could always put it in an ice bucket before pitching...

The immersion chiller did 3 batches prior to soaking it in starsan for any length of time. So even though it was mishandled, I don't think the mishandling is the cause.

For wort nutrients, the extract would of had plenty, and the spring water around here is pretty full too. For aeration, I splash the wort into the fermenter through a strainer, and shake... However for dry yeast straight from Danstar.

"No, there is no need to aerate the wort but it does not harm the yeast either. During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production."

So I ruled that out...

Does the taste resemble the smell of freshly opened tennis balls? I never heard of this tennis ball thing before.

When I read your post, the first thing I thought was: do you like the hops taste/bitterness ? If you put too much hops, the taste can be overwhelming for some people.

What is a commercial beer that you enjoy? mperceau may have hit on something here, maybe you don't like the taste of hops?

If it happened in the apfelwine it's not a hops issue.

I'm no expert by any means, but the description of the taste, the astringent bitterness taste, could it be tannins? (i was just doing some research on tannins, and the words used to describe the taste were astringent and bitter)

I am still an extract brewer, so I don't fully know the AG process, but could your sparge water at 170 be too high?

just a though, as the wort chiller did seem like a good idea.

ghank15 said:

I'm no expert by any means, but the description of the taste, the astringent bitterness taste, could it be tannins? (i was just doing some research on tannins, and the words used to describe the taste were astringent and bitter)

I am still an extract brewer, so I don't fully know the AG process, but could your sparge water at 170 be too high?

just a though, as the wort chiller did seem like a good idea.

Click to expand...

He said he even got the bitterness from an extract batch. You can't leach tannin from extract as far as I know.

well you can if you are using steeping grains. it was just a thought, like i said, I am no expert.

But extract brews do have steeping grains, and tannins could be extracted from those. Have you calibrated your thermometers? All thermometers need to be calibrated and if you are steeping, mashing, sparging at too high of a temperature, that could be your answer.

Lots happened at lunch! wow... ok...
I love hops..Nevada Torpedo, 2 hearted, etc. hoppier the better. I also love dark stouts and porters etc.

The 170+ strike is because my cooler and grain absorb that.

I use beersmith for every beer.

The apfelwein didn't have the taste. But that isn't cooked nor chilled. It was simply sugar, applejuice, yeast and water.

But it fermented clean, no bitter or astringent etc. Not a huge fan of apfelwein, but people liked it.

The extract batches used spring water because I didn't know to use distilled... but that doesn't explain all the post batches.

Testing chiller when I get home in RO water. Going to boil it for 15 then chill with it and taste the water. Ideally it should taste like distilled flat water right?

jpinetti said:

Does the taste resemble the smell of freshly opened tennis balls? I never heard of this tennis ball thing before.

Click to expand...

Interesting... No, but I will be smelling that smell when I get home to familiarize again hehe.

TheSlash said:

Lots happened at lunch! wow... ok...
I love hops..Nevada Torpedo, 2 hearted, etc. hoppier the better. I also love dark stouts and porters etc.

The 170+ strike is because my cooler and grain absorb that.

I use beersmith for every beer.

The apfelwein didn't have the taste. But that isn't cooked nor chilled. It was simply sugar, applejuice, yeast and water.

But it fermented clean, no bitter or astringent etc. Not a huge fan of apfelwein, but people liked it.

The extract batches used spring water because I didn't know to use distilled... but that doesn't explain all the post batches.

Testing chiller when I get home in RO water. Going to boil it for 15 then chill with it and taste the water. Ideally it should taste like distilled flat water right?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if there was an almost imperceptible trace of copper in the taste. That's fine for your beers, because yeast love copper!

I would taste the water (or even save a glass for side-by-side comparison) both pre- and post- chiller.

teresalgl said:

I would taste the water (or even save a glass for side-by-side comparison) both pre- and post- chiller.

Click to expand...

Have the RO water heating now.... Going to taste prior/during/after boil/after chill. See if that coil is giving any flavor whatsoever.

Appreciated it, one more thing I can check off as NOT IT.

Although I pray it is the chiller, but I have my doubts. Would be an easy swap.

Next I think is a ferm chamber... getting tired of spending tons of cash and not getting beer though lol.

Perhaps you could boil some water and the chiller for 15 minutes, cool it with the chiller and see if the flavor of the water changes? That might help you include/rule out the chiller as a problem.

Why not forgo the chiller altogether and use ice bath to rule it out for certain one way or the other?

New to this myself but I'm figuring there may be a possibility of something going on in the wort itself with your starsan soaked chiller....that you may not get just doing the water.

Why not rule it out for certain with a test batch in an ice bath?

When not using spring water, how is the brew water getting into the kettle?

(Silicone, vinyl, garden hose?)

TheSlash said:

Isn't is safe under 80?

Click to expand...

No. Pitch at 60 degrees, and then allow the wort to rise up to the desired fermentation temperature, usually 66 degrees or so. Make sure you consult a pitching calculator, and don't underpitch!

Ok so I boiled my chiller in 5gal RO water for 20 minutes, and then cooled the water to 70.
I tasted it every step of the way and it tasted like water. Even after being with the copper for over an hour. (boil/chill/tested after it sat)

I think I either need to try a batch with no hops and taste it right after boil. This would help separate fresh boiled hops from the astringent alka seltzer flavor.

Or as Yooper has mentioned, watch my fermentation temps. I know ambient was 60, but I pitched at 70 and active fermentation was over 70. (71-72)

On to the next step... If it's fermentation, I should be able to make some damn good beer by getting all the other processes right lol.

Any yeast or recipes that like to ferment hot? Otherwise icebath I guess....

I know this is a real shot in the dark, but...what type of hoses are you using? My friend and I started with high-temp rubber radiator hoses for moving the wort from the kettle to the CFC. Weird flavors. Once we moved to high-temp silicon hoses, the weird flavors were gone. Just a thought.

TheSlash said:

Ok so I boiled my chiller in 5gal RO water for 20 minutes, and then cooled the water to 70.
I tasted it every step of the way and it tasted like water. Even after being with the copper for over an hour. (boil/chill/tested after it sat)

I think I either need to try a batch with no hops and taste it right after boil. This would help separate fresh boiled hops from the astringent alka seltzer flavor.

Or as Yooper has mentioned, watch my fermentation temps. I know ambient was 60, but I pitched at 70 and active fermentation was over 70. (71-72)

On to the next step... If it's fermentation, I should be able to make some damn good beer by getting all the other processes right lol.

Any yeast or recipes that like to ferment hot? Otherwise icebath I guess....

Click to expand...

You have to try using a swamp cooler for your next batch. It's super cheap, easy, and let's you know that the outside temp showing on the LCD strip thermometer is the same temp as the wort inside the fementor. Well worth trying IMO. Easily one of the best things I've ever done for my beer.

LandoLincoln said:

I know this is a real shot in the dark, but...what type of hoses are you using? My friend and I started with high-temp rubber radiator hoses for moving the wort from the kettle to the CFC. Weird flavors. Once we moved to high-temp silicon hoses, the weird flavors were gone. Just a thought.

Click to expand...

Well I guess I forgot to mention I use a 3 tier gravity =) I have 3 silicone hoses, 1 on each vessle, but they are only a foot or so long.

I starsan the BK tube, but the others are all pre boil so get an oxy flush followed by water.

You have to try using a swamp cooler for your next batch. It's super cheap, easy, and let's you know that the outside temp showing on the LCD strip thermometer is the same temp as the wort inside the fementor. Well worth trying IMO. Easily one of the best things I've ever done for my beer.

Click to expand...

Interesting idea, I have a chamber for it insulated already... Do you have a link to the one you use, or recommendations? Can you set a temp on them without using a temp controller?

Funny enough, when I started I thought a 60 ambient was way to low, so I made a heating chamber! lol.

Another thought... my boil seems weak to me, 3000 watt does roll it, but I kind of only get a few inch spot in the middle that rolls, as long as I hold a boil is that enough to get rid of the DMS?

Figure out what piece of equipment you are NOT using with the Apfelwine (sp?) and that could be the culprit. Could it possibly be your mash tun? Did you rinse the Oxyclean or PBR off good enough?

boomtown25 said:

Figure out what piece of equipment you are NOT using with the Apfelwine (sp?) and that could be the culprit. Could it possibly be your mash tun? Did you rinse the Oxyclean or PBR off good enough?

Click to expand...

Well the apfelwein didn't use hardly any gear. Everything poured straight into the fermenter, then racked to a keg after. No HLT, no BK, no mash tun, not much really. Just threw it in there because it was a yeast fermented item that fermented in the same area my beer does with dry yeast. mmmm

What type of BK are you using? Is it possibly leaching some type of metal during your boil? If it is aluminum, did you season it before your brew? Did you clean it with Oxyclean (that's a no-no). Sorry about bombarding you with questions but I want to figure this out with you!

You said you boil on the stove....Lid on or lid off? I did not see you mention that in your origional post. Had a couple brews today so I may be blind I only ask because at 7 gallons, you would need a pretty serious stove to carry a boil (correct me if i am wrong you veterans) But boiling with the lid on can have a negative effect on your beer as certain compounds can build up affecting flavour....

I use a SS 9 gallon brewpot with 2 welds from adventures in homebrewing. I have a blichman thermo and a ss valve on it. The false bottom is SS as well.

I have boiled on the stove when I did extract. All grain has been outside with 2 1500 watt electric heatsticks.

I boil with the lid off. =)

Thanks...

Slash- I hate to say it, but it may be your tastebuds. You need to have some people taste your beers and without telling them what is wrong, simply ask them to comment on it as if they were critiquing it. I had one of my Amarillo IPAs last night and while I was enjoying it I thought to myself, "I can easily see why a BMC drinker would not like this, although I thought it was glorious. I have a BMC friend who tasted my Warrior IPA recently (one of my best beers yet) and his comment was "I'm impressed but I don't like that stingy taste it has, what is that?" I simply said, "Hops you *******". So, while you have said you like hoppy beer, maybe you are not so keen on "freshly brewed hoppy beer that is not commercial". This would also somewhat play in with the unconditioned beer taste. Half the beers I have brewed have tasted like piss water after mashing, right after boil and right before bottling only to be the Nectar of the Gods after 3 weeks in the bottle and only improve from there. Weird "offensive" tastes dissappear.

boomtown25 said:

Slash- I hate to say it, but it may be your tastebuds. You need to have some people taste your beers and without telling them what is wrong, simply ask them to comment on it as if they were critiquing it. I had one of my Amarillo IPAs last night and while I was enjoying it I thought to myself, "I can easily see why a BMC drinker would not like this, although I thought it was glorious. I have a BMC friend who tasted my Warrior IPA recently (one of my best beers yet) and his comment was "I'm impressed but I don't like that stingy taste it has, what is that?" I simply said, "Hops you *******". So, while you have said you like hoppy beer, maybe you are not so keen on "freshly brewed hoppy beer that is not commercial". This would also somewhat play in with the unconditioned beer taste. Half the beers I have brewed have tasted like piss water after mashing, right after boil and right before bottling only to be the Nectar of the Gods after 3 weeks in the bottle and only improve from there. Weird "offensive" tastes dissappear.

Click to expand...

This is a very good post man... No one has told me it is bad, I thought I was the over picky one, but maybe you are right here... However I guess I was expecting more of a commercial taste...

Like no one around here homebrews so it's hard for me to judge anything. Technically I've never had a homebrew other than my own.

Is it possible to love microbrews but not homebrews? Never thought of fresh hops being THAT much different. I had a pretty fresh pliney and loved it...

Anyone willing to send me a bottle of homebrew who is close to lower michigan? I'll cover all costs. P.S. don't poison me pls.

P.S. I'm also a huge black coffee fan, and have heard that can mess with your tastebuds for beer, but never thought much of it as I like micros.

I gotter say...that was one heckuva op, thot it was
a trole...

So lemme get this straight...you STARTED OUT with all-grain,
with 17,439 a them there variables, and now you wanna
figger out whuts wrong?

I figger mos peeple like me start out with malt sugar in
a alumanum pot, and lern to make it gud that way. Than
grajeeate to the big-boy stuff, jes fer fun.

I would take 2 cans a malt sugar, boil 'em with a small
amount of hops (like no moore than say 1 oz a low
alpher hops like hallertwo) and see if that comes out
ok, if not weel work it from there. Howzat sound?

Ron :cross: