What level are you?

I'm not sure that'll work Cheaton. I, and many others I presume, brew in order TO relax. It's the bestest most relaxing part of my weekend. Although I do have coffee and a banana beforehand.

SpanishCastleAle said:

I'm not sure that'll work Cheaton. I, and many others I presume, brew in order TO relax. It's the bestest most relaxing part of my weekend. Although I do have coffee and a banana beforehand.

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Yeah, I am the same way. I'm a very high energy, almost hyper, person. But when I brew? I'm so relaxed!

I'm very laid back and easy going when I brew, and when I rack and keg and bottle. That's why I brew- some people have golf or running to get their relaxation. I brew. I've never been uptight about brewing, even when the brewday hasn't gone my way. Leaking wort chillers, a ballvalve left open, boil overs. Laugh, and just fix the issue and move on. It's good for my mental health!

I think I'm one of these strange people who actually finds relaxation in being stressed out. But its good stress not bad stress. I get excited when I brew, and when I cook. I feel like it makes me very alert. My heart rate goes up and I get edgy, kind of like a QB before the first snap of the game. Eye of the tiger, baby! I don't think this will ever change, even after I've done 500 batches. Lord knows, I've cooked enough meals and it never changes with that either. I was a bit disappointed with the Apfelwein.... just not enough to "worry" about.

I have to agree with the Pol. Level of advancement depends on how much you control the process. Right now, the process still controls me to an extent. I can't just go out there and create a batch from scratch, hit all of my numbers, and have it turn out the way I want it to. That to me is advanced.

On the other hand, I am currently teaching someone to homebrew. I never knew how much I understood the process until I was asked a whole lot of questions about it. At every step, I was able to answer questions with scientific reasoning and anecdotal experience. I was able to explain the pros and cons of why I do things the way I do them. I was able to explain alternate methods and their pros and cons. When things went wrong, I had solutions. That doesn't make me a great brewer, but I do think that puts me somewhere above beginner even if only slightly above.

It's understandable in that we usually judge our own expertise against all the other beer nerds here and we're constantly reminded how much we have left to learn. It almost makes it impossible to casually discuss beer making with the average public.

Certainly, the amount of equipment has nothing to do with one's brewing 'level'. I've seen enough breweries go under to know making good beer is a skill. $250,000 of shiny doesn't make up for lack of skill. Skill is consistency and adaptability.

My level? Still learning after all these beers.

Quality, consistency, and variety of the beer. That's all there is to it. It's all about the product and one's ability to produce it.

You don't judge a craftsman by the quality of his tools, the number of books on his wall, the number of years he's practiced the craft, the amount he's produced, the extent of his knowledge of the craft, or even the trophies on his mantle. Sure, all those may give you some hints as to his ability. However, when it comes down to it, the only standards that truly reflect one's skill are:

1. Quality of the product.

2. Consistency of that quality from product to product.

3. Variety of product with that consistent quality.


TL

david_42 said:

adaptability

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Well, I just go through writing all that stuff down, and there's the word I was looking for!


TL

I am a tenth level neutral paladin.

my t-shirt says 10th level beer nerd. I'd say Level 2-3 Brewer.

Was that a Northern Brewer shirt? I picked up the tenth level beer nerd sticker at the NB table at NHC.

I wanted to get a 10th level beer nerd shirt for a brewday, but I would have felt awkward wearing it. Still not at that level yet.

I never have the feeling that I can just bang out a batch. I always feel like there is so much prep work for me to get it right. Some day I hope to be able to glance at my inventory and immediately know what kind of beer I could make with it, and know that if I just take those to the garage, I could walk out with a delicious example of that beer in a few hours.

Going by the comments in this thread, I believe I am still a beginner. I have only brewed 2 beers twice, they were very similar to the first time but still, I have a long ways to go.

I have made the same beer over. It does take equipment to do. I find that the Barley crusher and chest freezer are key.

Still making the same beer over and over is still not what I want to do. I want to make better and better beer. The more experience I have only makes it harder and harder. When I no longer am getting better I might loose interest.

I have won a few ribbons against many better brewers than me. That might make me a swell-head, but I think my constant reading and posting on the net made me one.

With all there is to learn about brewing, I think anyone foolish enough to call themselves an expert is much closer to a beginner than they know.

My friends think I'm advanced. No one here, including me, would mistake me for anything but a beginner. Not a raw beginner perhaps but not intermediate (yet).

Ive only been brewing for a year:
Ive brewed in this order: pale ale, paulaner hefe (2nd place), dead guy clone, Blue heron clone, vienna Northernbrewer smash (beginning of all grain), Belgian Dubbel (best so far) Centinnial Blonde, Bombshell Blonde, Cream of 3 crops, Saison, Belgian Pale and last weekend my first IIPA. And in between 3 batches of Apfelwein and two batches of red wine.

So a total of 12 brews with nine being all grain. I have never done a repeat beer so I have no idea about the repeatability of my brews. I honestly don't think Im even ready for that. All my beers aside from the first one have been really good. I rarely miss my OG, so thats something. I know my all grain system very good and can have a calm and relaxing brewday. (I am no longer stress during and exhausted after brewing). All that being said I believe I am still novice, but starting to enter the intermediate territory. I read a ton! and thats the big difference between so-so brewers and good brewers. I now understand everything that goes on; I can't really tell you the "why" of conversion, attenuation, efficiency..etc but I can tell you how to make each one ideal for the brew I am making. Ive read John Palmers book, Designing Great Beers (a must for any brewer), countless hours on this board and I subscribe to Brew Your Own (another must for any brewer)...Anyway, Just some of my brewing background

I'd say i'm advanced hobbyist.

Brewed my first batch May of 1990. Lost count of number of batches. Not sure how many styles I've brewed, but probbaly not more than 8 or 10; I brew what I drink a lot of now, and that's about it. I've built two kegerators, built an all electric HERMS system, built two well ventilated indoor breweries (we moved, so I lost the firest one). I use brewing software, and i'm usually within 1.002 of my starting and ending goal, but I don't worry about it, just want my beer toi taste good. For me, building things (working on a motoized mill now) is half the fun.

Once I can make a great Uerige clone, I could care less if I ever get any better :rockin:

I've repeated several of my beers, but my goal isn't to maintain consistency because I'm trying to improve the beer every time in one way or another. So, I modify recipes and processes every time based on feedback and my own perceptions of what the beer needs to improve.

Many of the folks who posted here saying they considered themselves as a novice, are people that I have learned the most from. I think it's all relative.

Ive been brewing on and off since 1995, but there are some who have been brewing maybe a year or two that I would say are more experienced than I.

There are a whole bunch of variables that could be considered. Too many to list in full.
Some key areas:
Level of understanding of the mechanics of the brewing process
Understanding the biology/chemistry of the process
Understanding of ingredient/Yeast properties and interactions
Consistant results/ Making damn good beer regularly

just my two cents

TexLaw said:

Quality, consistency, and variety of the beer. That's all there is to it. It's all about the product and one's ability to produce it.

You don't judge a craftsman by the quality of his tools, the number of books on his wall, the number of years he's practiced the craft, the amount he's produced, the extent of his knowledge of the craft, or even the trophies on his mantle. Sure, all those may give you some hints as to his ability. However, when it comes down to it, the only standards that truly reflect one's skill are:

1. Quality of the product.

2. Consistency of that quality from product to product.

3. Variety of product with that consistent quality.


TL

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I kind of agree with this thought the most. Although it is nice to know the whys and all of your craft, that is not really required if you are taught the hows and can make good beer. An expert baker does not need to understand how yeast makes bread rise any more than an expert race car driver NEEDS to know how his car's transmission works internally, he just needs to know how to operate it. Now to be an expert on the topic of brewing and the science of brewing you not only need to understand the science but making good beer as well.

Now, to create your own recipes you will need some knowledge of why this and why that but not necessarily to the level of science.

I am a beginner with enough knowledge to produce a good all grain beer, probably consistently but I have yet to brew all styles so I am not even close to saying more. Perhaps if I had more free time I would be more interested in the whys than just making good beer.

I am definitely a novice. I've got a couple batches under my belt and I have become consumed with learning all I can. It seems everytime I learn something there are 2 more things I want/need to know because of it.

I am a novice hobbyist. When the beer I brew is as good as commercial beer on a consistent basis and I am in full control of my process, then I will be advanced. I expect to be a novice for quite a while because I am limited IMO by my equipment and the constant flux of my brewery. I understand the theory but do not have all the tools to enact it thoroughly.

:EDIT: After reading through here more I have to disagree with one notion. I do not think a homebrewer should be measured by repeated batches. I have never exactly rebrewed a batch, and I don't have any plans to. I always change something. Either I have a new piece of equipment, or I have a crazy idea for how to change it. I have brewed some very close things (my smoked porter is the only really close one) but even that I used a starter the second time I brewed it and not the first time.

I think a better measure is how well you can predict your recipes and your process. I may not rebrew a bunch of times, but I can very closely predict how my system will work and adequately make the adaptations to get the results I intended.

This is an interesting read - even if you dislike the categorization of skill levels, it's hard to pull away from it. So I call this an advanced level thread!

As for me, I've been brewing for seven years or so, plus or minus. I've made more styles than I can count, I have a house IPA that I can make in my sleep, I can tweak the recipe and know in advance how it will come out, and have yet to produce a bad batch in all these years. So from that standpoint, I'm reasonably accomplished.

I've grown my own hops and learned the art of preserving them, if that counts for anything.

But I am a 100% extract brewer and probably always will be. And I am just not a gear head - I'm "bare bones" for equipment. I get rid of any equipment that doesn't get used in a year or two, and have never bought anything just to have it. So from that standpoint, I am no more than intermediate at best.

And I am not at all scientific about the process. My basic processes are repeatable and consistent but I don't even use a hydrometer. I manage my brewing more as a craft than a science. So in this regard, I'm a noob by some standards (though not by my own).

I guess I come out as no higher, at most, than a low-intermediate.

It's all about the ritualized initiations and secret hand shakes.

i have two dedicated beer fridges(one which is a tap/ageing), a kegging system, have read several brew books, and i have been brewing for 3 years now. I have not attempted all grain brewing i just dont have the money i want for the setup. I still consider myself a novice brewer.

Bobby_M said:

Was that a Northern Brewer shirt? I picked up the tenth level beer nerd sticker at the NB table at NHC.

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Yep

Homercidal said:

I wanted to get a 10th level beer nerd shirt for a brewday, but I would have felt awkward wearing it. Still not at that level yet.

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I got it for Cristmas, know I'm not an expert brewer, but have no problem wearing a t-shirt. I don't think all those guys wearing Female Body inspector shirt are actually Female Body Inspectors either

I compare myself to number 5 starter on a professional baseball team. In most cases you get a decent drinkable beer, but every so often I will brew up a gem. So, definitely a novice.

I'm a level 60 night elf hunter.

I'm still stuck on the Cradle on 007...I always fall off at the end damnit

I am for sure a novice. I know fore sure as I have never even tried to make the same beer twice. In my opinion it's all about trying new things. I think about making beer the same way I think about cooking. You might as well try something new. Anyone can make kraft dinner............

I suppose I could classify myself as being on the cusp of Intermediate, but I feel like such a beginner. I guess that makes me a Novice. There is so much Knowledge out there, and as I've said before the learning curve is quite long.(for me anyway)

I will disagree with one thing. I don't feel that brewing as many styles as possible matters. For example, I'm not a fan of Belgians, chances are I'll never brew one. I don't think that makes me any less qualified as a brewer.

I think that consistency is key, but not when you are still developing a recipe. I am about to try and duplicate my stout from before because it was so good. My Belgian Dubbel is still getting worked out though, so no two batches have been the same. I think that my Black IPA is effing bangtastic, but could different hops make it better?

All that said, I am still a beginner. I am still working out what all the hops taste like individually.

I'm intermediate. A couple things keep me from being advanced.

1. I haven't gotten really into the chemistry of brewing
2. My pallete is still unsophisticated

I don't think going all grain makes someone advanced. It's pretty easy, you just spend more time and money on it. Perfecting your system and a recipe in AG and being able to repeat the same successful batches over time makes you advanced.

I guess my idea of advanced would combine someone who is a code welder, a mechanical and chemical engineer and a microbiologist with a heated garage and was directly from Germany & Belgium at the same time.

consistency i think ranks on top... and that means consistent tasty beer!! like in chemistry there is precision and accuracy... we all want to be precisely accurate to the style we brew.

With that said… I rank myself as a advanced novice. Been at the brew thing for a awhile now and can brew a good ‘kit’ but my own recipes need some work.

Almost a professional here

so freaking close......

I'm a 17th level black belt with........wait............wait!?! Oh F......

This isn't the Ninjutsu forum is it? :cross:

I'd say that I am above a novice brewer but I need to get more into the chemistry side of it, something which I am kind of loathe to do. My gear is one step above a noob but nowhere near pro.
I am however an expert taster.

TwoHeadsBrewing said:

I think these factors are the most important (to me):

1. Number of years actively brewing.
2. Number of batches brewed.
3. Number of different styles of beer brewed.
4. Quality of the end product. (last but NOT least)
5. Consistency and Repeatability

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I would think that 4 and 5 are the only ones relevant. I guarantee there are people on here who've brewed 10 batches and just get it.

And at the same time, there are people here who have brewed 100, and still don't make excellent beer.

I really don't care to label where I am in regards to brewing. I have several beers that I can make with no variance in taste or quality does that make me advanced I think not. I still f up sometimes on brews. I like to brew and I love what I brew .I don't enter comps with my brews I just like to share it with friends and family . In the past year I have been asked to supply beer for a friends engagement party then the wedding two other weddings for family and the neighborhood block party.

I have been down the road making hobbies a living and I tell you what it sucks ... I used to turn out 2 or 3 motorcycle paint jobs a year mostly friends and my own loved to hit the shop and work the hammers and paint guns .... once I started doing it for a living I hated that two years of my life and I was making money , it took years to go back to it as a hobby.

So if anything all I will ever be is a hobbyist brewer