temperatures and cider making

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maenad

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I live in a hot country and the temperature is only reliably cool from late October to mid-April. I'd like to start a cider kit now (mid-August) but the temp may well go up to 35 celcius during the next few months.

If I start a batch and the weather gets hot, will the fermentation just "go on hold" and take longer than usual? Or do I have to wait until the weather is 100% safe?
 
A hot fermentation will give off bad tasting esters from the yeast.

Heat is somewhat of a catalyst for yeast, the hotter it is the more vigorous your fermentation will be; to a point. To hot could potentially kill the yeast.

You will want to ferment around 68F-72F. For about a week or so, check gravity levels to ensure proper and final gravity levels.

If you dont have any way to maintain temps i would suggest on waiting.
 
Cider, if it is just juice, will ferment in less than a week. You will need to keep the temperature below 25C, which you should be able to do by setting the fermenter in a water bath. If the kit uses addition sugar to raise the alcohol content, it will take longer.

Fermentation will go faster at higher temperatures. The problem with high temperatures is esters, which can give fruity aromas, and fusel alcohols, which give the cider a hot alcohol flavor and in high concentrations can make you sick.
 
I have been reading a lot on Artisanal Cider making in France.
Every text mention the same thing
Slow and cool fermentation
Slow mean 2/4 month - letting time to develop all the flavors.
Cool mean 12c (53F)
Starting density around 1060
Bottling at 1038 3.5% for a sweet cider
Bottling at 1031 4.5% somewhat sweet cider
Bottling at 1023 5.5% for dry cider
1000 8.25% good for the distillery

My questions are:
- Can we really make cider in a few weeks?
- Why is there such a goal of making cider above 6%, it will become very dry.
- Why don't we talk more about the importance of the temperature?

Don't forget, I am a newbie.

* some of my references (there is a ton more on French web), if you understand French
https://madeincalvados.com/page/17-fabrication-cidre-normand
http://svt.ac-rouen.fr/biologie/cidre/fabrication/jus et cidre.htm
https://www.mordusdelapomme.fr/spip.php?article75
 
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Time:
Cider can easily finish fermenting in a few weeks (depending on various factors), but it will take additional time to clear unless you use fining.
If you don't mind it cloudy, a delicious cider can be ready to drink pretty quickly. Proper rehydration for dry yeast, proper pitch rate, good aeration, staggered nutrient additions, and appropriate temperature control for the yeast all help avoid off flavors.

Alcohol:
The juice I use has OG around 1.050-1.060 and ferments dry to around 7% ABV. I never add sugar besides for carbonation.
It gives the perception of semi-dry, which is perfect for my taste. Apples have sorbitol, which is an unfermentable sugar and adds sweetness to a "dry" cider.

Temperature:
Appropriate temperature is very important, but it depends on the particular yeast strain that you use. Everyone likes different yeast.
I have good results fermenting my cider around 50°F (10°C) with a variety of wine yeast strains and with the natural yeast from unpasteurized cider.
Low temperature not only helps the yeast ferment cleanly, but it also preserves the apple flavor compounds.

Bottling at 1038 3.5% for a sweet cider
Bottling at 1031 4.5% somewhat sweet cider
Bottling at 1023 5.5% for dry cider
1000 8.25% good for the distillery
1.023 is NOT dry. Might want to double check that source. Around 0.996-1.002 is dry.
The dry cider I make is quite delicious. It certainly isn't just fit for distilling.

Also worth mentioning: sweet (i.e. not fully dry) cider needs to be somehow stabilized or pasteurized if you want shelf-stable bottles. Hopefully that was clear from your reading.

Cheers
 
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I'd like to start a cider kit now (mid-August) but the temp may well go up to 35 celcius during the next few months.
Sounds like a situation crying out for Kveik yeast. I haven't used it in a cider, but there are posts where people have. Ferments hot and quick without off flavors.
 
I live in a hot country and the temperature is only reliably cool from late October to mid-April. I'd like to start a cider kit now (mid-August) but the temp may well go up to 35 celcius during the next few months.

I don't usually make any cider until October, one reason is the temperature but another reason is that late season apples seem to make a better cider.
To the OP, skip the kits. Turkey is the #3 apple producing country in the world.
See if you can get some fresh pressed juice and make cider in October, November and December and even January.
Ferment cold and slow. An old saying says something like: "keep the cider in the barrel until you see the blossoms on the apple trees."
 
Anyone try Belle Saison, at warm (70s or low 80s F) temps in cider? I get good early season apples where I'm pressing and fermenting in early August, would be nice to not have to worry about temp control.
 
Anyone try Belle Saison, at warm (70s or low 80s F) temps in cider? I get good early season apples where I'm pressing and fermenting in early August, would be nice to not have to worry about temp control.

This is my go-to yeast for cider, and I usually ferment at room temp, around 75-76F. But I used store bought juice, not fresh pressed. So far I have been much happier with the results from beer yeasts than with wine yeasts, although I may try a few other wine yeasts (D47, maybe QA23) in the future.

Also, I don't go for this 2-5 month process. I ferment for a week or so, bottle carb for a week or two, refrigerate, and start drinking.
 
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With French cider an important factor is the Nitrogen levels, that is how they control the speed of fermentation and the FG. The process they use is called keeving, it only works at low temperatures.
 
This is my go-to yeast for cider, and I usually ferment at room temp, around 75-76F. But I used store bought juice, not fresh pressed. So far I have been much happier with the results from beer yeasts than with wine yeasts, although I may try a few other wine yeasts (D47, maybe QA23) in the future.

Also, I don't go for this 2-5 month process. I ferment for a week or so, bottle carb for a week or two, refrigerate, and start drinking.

What kinda flavors does this throw off into cider? I've been looking at saison yeasts for ciders out of curiosity. That temperature range is right in my basements summer wheelhouse without having to rig up any cooling. I was a bit concerned with using an entire packet in a 3G batch though. Is it possible/smart/logical to only use part of a vacuum sealed yeast packet?
 
What kinda flavors does this throw off into cider? I've been looking at saison yeasts for ciders out of curiosity. That temperature range is right in my basements summer wheelhouse without having to rig up any cooling. I was a bit concerned with using an entire packet in a 3G batch though. Is it possible/smart/logical to only use part of a vacuum sealed yeast packet?
I don't really know how to address the flavor questions...it's too individual. To me, Belle Saison leaves it with a hint of apple, and other than that I consider it pretty neutral, but I don't consider myself a super-taster, and everyone's palate is different. In contrast, I find that wine yeasts like EC 1118 strip all the flavor out completely.

I was doing 1-2 gallon batches last year and used only 1/4 tsp per gallon. Then I just fold over the top of the packet, tape it closed, put it in a ziplock bag, and store it in my fridge. I have used yeast that was opened a year ago and stored like this. I usually rehydrate my yeast, especially when it's an older package, to make sure it's awake and happy before pitching. I know some people probably wouldn't advise that, but so far, I have had no issues with it.
 
I don't really know how to address the flavor questions...it's too individual. To me, Belle Saison leaves it with a hint of apple, and other than that I consider it pretty neutral, but I don't consider myself a super-taster, and everyone's palate is different. In contrast, I find that wine yeasts like EC 1118 strip all the flavor out completely.

I was doing 1-2 gallon batches last year and used only 1/4 tsp per gallon. Then I just fold over the top of the packet, tape it closed, put it in a ziplock bag, and store it in my fridge. I have used yeast that was opened a year ago and stored like this. I usually rehydrate my yeast, especially when it's an older package, to make sure it's awake and happy before pitching. I know some people probably wouldn't advise that, but so far, I have had no issues with it.

Thanks for the response! I kinda figured the question on flavor is a bit...broad. The only ciders I have made so far have been with ale yeasts. I've enjoyed S04, it seems to leave enough apple taste, albeit quite tart. I was curious if the saison yeasts tended to throw out different fruity flavors or not.

As a smaller batch beer brewer, that is how I treat my packets of dry yeast as well. But I have purposely stayed away from the super vacuum sealed ones because I wasn't sure if they held up as well doing the taped over method haha. Thanks for clearing my conscience of that.
 
In contrast, I find that wine yeasts like EC 1118 strip all the flavor out completely.

EC 1118 has this reputation among wine yeasts. I've used D47 which left lots of apple flavor, at least at cooler temps, but is said to produce fusels or other undesirables at warmer temps (>68F).
 
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