questions on filling bottles from keg

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/we-no-need-no-stinking-beer-gun-24678/


following the thread above, i was thinking about tryin it without a stopper. has anyone had success with this? i tried this before and couldnt get the stopper to burp correctly which ended up with excess pressure filling and a foamy mess. i didnt turn off the gas and bleed the pressure as well. is this necessary? i guess i have a fear of turning off gas and bleeding my keg would result in future flat beer or off flavors. also, i have a bottle wand lying around, is this better used vs. piece of racking cane if i wasnt planning on using a stopper?

anybody?

I've used a bottling wand stuffed in my picnic tap and it worked just fine. Not sure how long it would keep at that point, but if you just bottling up a six pack to take to a friends house, it shouldn't matter.

The stopper is used to provide back-pressure so that the CO2 does not come out of the beer during filling. You might lose more CO2 by filling without the stopper and might end up with flat beer.

Can you rig another method to "burp" the stopper while filling? Maybe work a sliver of wood or metal in-between the stopper and the bottle? I was also thinking that you could somehow stick one of those needle inflators (the kind used to inflate footballs, basketballs, etc) through the stopper you could control the pressure with your finger over the needle.

Those two things you don't want to do, using the stopper and turning down the pressure on the regulator, are the two crucial things! They reduce foaming, so that the co2 stays in solution to carb the beer.

Try getting the stopper wet with star-san, and don't put it on so tight. For big bottles (like 2 liter soda bottles), I use a gasket for a Grolsch bottle and hold it down with my finger.

You won't lose carbonation in your kegged beer if you turn down the regulator to 2 psi just to push the beer for a few minutes.

If you're just taking a growler over to a friend's for a night, no need for the stopper, just use a long tube or a racking cane. It will not last as long, but it'll last long enough. If you're filling bottles to cap and save for a bit, you'll need the stopper and to turn down the psi on the regulator.

If I use that method I pretty much never use the stopper. I get equal amount of foam (which is usually very, very little) when I use the stopper and when I don't. Just turn the pressure way down.

Yooper said:

Those two things you don't want to do, using the stopper and turning down the pressure on the regulator, are the two crucial things! They reduce foaming, so that the co2 stays in solution to carb the beer.

Try getting the stopper wet with star-san, and don't put it on so tight. For big bottles (like 2 liter soda bottles), I use a gasket for a Grolsch bottle and hold it down with my finger.

You won't lose carbonation in your kegged beer if you turn down the regulator to 2 psi just to push the beer for a few minutes.

If you're just taking a growler over to a friend's for a night, no need for the stopper, just use a long tube or a racking cane. It will not last as long, but it'll last long enough. If you're filling bottles to cap and save for a bit, you'll need the stopper and to turn down the psi on the regulator.

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what about turning off the gas and bleeding the keg? is it best to do this first then crank it to about 2psi or just skip this crank it down to 2psi? also, what about the bottling wand? seems like that would give you the option to better control the flow vs. a stopper...

Bottling wand will be okay.

If "burping" the stopper is too much trouble maybe look into a counterpressure bottle filler or Blichmann beer gun.

Turn your gas off, bleed your keg, turn it back up to 2psi or whatever you want to use, then fire away.

osagedr said:

Bottling wand will be okay.

If "burping" the stopper is too much trouble maybe look into a counterpressure bottle filler or Blichmann beer gun.

Turn your gas off, bleed your keg, turn it back up to 2psi or whatever you want to use, then fire away.

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do you bleed the keg all the way?

zodiak3000 said:

do you bleed the keg all the way?

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yes, or you will likely be above 2 psi

i'm not sure what the general thought on this is, (guessing its wrong). but the one time i filled bottles from my keg i just filled them right from my tap. i get a good head on my beers from the keg, so i just filled the bottles up with beer to the normal spot on the neck and let the foam over flow a little so the head space was all filled, then capped. no way for there to be air in there, and it lasted a pretty good while. i took a sixer to a buddy's house and he lost one in the fridge for a about a month, so when he found it he drank it and said it was still really good (if not better). i don't know if this was a fluke? but if i do decide to bottle from the keg again i'll probably do it this way, at least until it gives me trouble. any thoughts on what would be wrong with doing it this way?

rycov said:

i'm not sure what the general thought on this is, (guessing its wrong). but the one time i filled bottles from my keg i just filled them right from my tap. i get a good head on my beers from the keg, so i just filled the bottles up with beer to the normal spot on the neck and let the foam over flow a little so the head space was all filled, then capped. no way for there to be air in there, and it lasted a pretty good while. i took a sixer to a buddy's house and he lost one in the fridge for a about a month, so when he found it he drank it and said it was still really good (if not better). i don't know if this was a fluke? but if i do decide to bottle from the keg again i'll probably do it this way, at least until it gives me trouble. any thoughts on what would be wrong with doing it this way?

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The only danger with doing it this way is that you will lose more co2 during filling the bottle. If it still tastes good and is well-carbed after a month, you should be fine. One thing that will help is to cool the bottles before you fill them, helps keep the co2 in solution. The purpose of using the cane is to release the beer at the bottom, further reduing foaming/co2 loss. The stopper is to create a slight pressurized atmosphere in the bottle, further cutting it down. But if your way is working for you, don't fix it until its broke!

yeah, i pour gently so as not to cause too much foam. all the foam i get is just enough to overflow a tiny bit, once i get the non foamy beer where i want it.i figure that extra foam is made of beer and co2 so it lessens my chance of oxidation. i see what you mean about the racking cane though. if it ever gives me trouble i'll be looking back on here to fix it.

I fill few bottles from each keg and always used just picnic tap without issues, foaming etc. You have to release almost all pressure from keg, leaving just enough to slowwwly fill one bottle, then add some pressure and fill another one. Don't think I would like to fill a case, but couple 0.5-1 qt bottles easy task.

right, if i keg then i like to have a few bottles too to take somewhere. i gave it a shot at bottling from the keg and it worked pretty good. i tried coopers carb tabs for the same purpose, eh, they were ok. got an ok level of carb, not much head.

Just a question: What does the carbing sugar have to do with the head on your beer? I thought the heading proteins came from the grains, and were just activated by the CO2. So, if the mash was right, and you have carbonation, you should have head.
Please, correct me if I am wrong.

its not carbed up really well. its drinkable but not as good as it was from the keg. i don't really know, to answer your question. just how it happend. i'm gonna give them another shot, but so far i'm not real impressed.

Rockape66 said:

Just a question: What does the carbing sugar have to do with the head on your beer? I thought the heading proteins came from the grains, and were just activated by the CO2. So, if the mash was right, and you have carbonation, you should have head.
Please, correct me if I am wrong.

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All those little bubbles in your beer go to the top, where the head is.

i think he was asking how the type of sugar used matters. actually i think it does matter a little, but i'm not sure why or the science behind it. just in general i didn't get what i was looking for from the carb drops. but i still have a bunch, so i'll try them again.

Good advice so far. I agree that a stopper is pretty much mandatory if you want to keep the beer at its best carbonation. The only difference in how I do it is I'm too lazy to turn the CO2 pressure down - I bottle at 12PSI right off my taps.

Here's my video if you haven't seen it. Note in the closeup at 2:07 - I let enough backpressure build to completely stop the flow of beer and let the foam subside a bit. Then slowly bleed air. It took a little practice to get that part right - the stopper wants to pop straight back up and out if you're not careful, but at a lower PSI it should be easier to manage.



Last night, a friend of mine just cracked a Russian Imperial Stout that I had bottled with this method over a year ago. He posted this to my Facebook page: "It was impossibly good....The carbonation was perfect and it was silky smooth. Not overly boozy or sweet. Had a great balance."

-Joe

rycov said:

i think he was asking how the type of sugar used matters. actually i think it does matter a little, but i'm not sure why or the science behind it. just in general i didn't get what i was looking for from the carb drops. but i still have a bunch, so i'll try them again.

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I believe he was asking how the amount (not type) of sugar used affects head. He seemed to imply that the amount of carbonation would have only a small effect on head retention, but I don't believe this to be true. I've never thought much about it but it seems to me that to achieve good head (depending on style) you need adequate carbonation, appropriate grains (i.e. grains that will contribute to head/head retention for example I add cara-pils to my light lagers for this purpose) and to have your mashing process correct (http://www.brewwiki.com/index.php/Head_Retention#Mashing_Schedule).

i reread his post, i still think he means type. but if not then yeah, i think it definately relates to carb level. how would it even have any head with out it?

rycov said:

i reread his post, i still think he means type. but if not then yeah, i think it definately relates to carb level. how would it even have any head with out it?

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You could be right...either way this thread has been beneficial to me since it led me to think about the fact that a protein rest (probably quite unnecessary these days) could be costing me head retention.

I usually use a stopper, but a universal bung for a glass carboy (inverted) works really well too.

and check this out if you have perlicks - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f41/bottling-wand-perlick-525-75-aka-bowie-bottler-228344/