cold fermentation please help!

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jwbrewin

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I am trying my first lager and have some questions about cold fermentation. on the vile of yeast I used it said to keep wort at least 70 degrees until fermentation begins. well when i was at work today fermintation began but I am worried about putting it into my frige becasue a fellow brewer I know mentioned to me one time that a temp. drop of 20 degrees or more will/could kill the yeast. So, is it ok to still put it in the frige and also, i planned of lagering it at 50 degrees. Is this the optimal temp? any rec. will be be app.

thanx for any help!
 
A temp drop of 20 degrees will shock the yeast, not kill them. And a lager yeast should be able to handle it. I would slowly bring it down to 50 degrees in 5 degree incriments just to be safe. Next time, don't listen to the package. I've always just cooled my lagers to around 60, pitched yeast, and put into the fridge.
 
Lower the temperature slowly, as to not shock the yeast. But get the temp down to 50 degrees ASAP so that the majority of the fermentation takes place at the optimum temperature. It may take 10-14 days to ferment out at 50 degrees. After than, take the SG of the beer. If you're near the FG, then raise the temperature to 65 degrees for the diacteyl rest. If you started fermentation at 70ish, you'll need a diacetyl rest so the yeast can clean up the waste produts.

Lagering means "cold storing". It's usually done at near freezing temps for several weeks. I lager mine at 34 degrees for 6-12 weeks. A good rule of thumb is one week of lagering for each 10 points of SG.

So, after primary is over and the diacetyl rest is finished, you can rack the beer. Then, lower the temperature about 5 degrees per day if possible, until you're in the 30s. After about 6-8 weeks, it should be ready to bottle.
 
Those vials use the same generic instructions on lager and ale yeast, they are not the optimal way to brew.

Chill wort to as close to ~50 as possible, pitch a started that is also in that range, and ferment at ~50. That is how my lagers have been tastily brewed!
 
quote:
"Lagering means "cold storing". It's usually done at near freezing temps for several weeks. I lager mine at 34 degrees for 6-12 weeks. A good rule of thumb is one week of lagering for each 10 points of SG."

By "SG" do you mean OG?

So I am seeing one brewer saying pitch at 70 F and then bring down by 5 degrees until you hit 50 F to ferment, then I'm seeing another say pitch at 50 F. So for someone new to cold fermentation witch method produces consistent results?

Also how do you bring temp down in 5 degree increments? What dose that mean hold it at a temp every 5 degrees? How do you feasibly do that? Is that different than pitching at 70 degrees and then sticking it my fridge that is at 50 degrees? Sorry to play devils advocate just trying to understand because I'm new to the whole cold fermentation process
 
S.G. = Specific Gravity
O.G. = Original Gravity
F.G. = Final Gravity
Specific gravity, in brewing terms, is a scale comparing the relative density of a fluid to the density of water. Original gravity is brew-lingo for the specific gravity of the wort before pitching yeast. Final gravity is also brew-lingo for the specific gravity after the completion of fermentation.

Both methods will produce consistent results. As Yooper said, with the warm pitching technique you'll almost definately need a diacetyl rest. With the cold pitching sometimes you don't, but it takes longer to start fermenting and you'll need to pitch a much larger quantity of yeast. Supposedly the cold pitching method produces a cleaner beer in the end. I don't know about this, since I've always cold pitched lagers with a huge starter.

As far as bringing it down in 5 deg inc, what they, and I suggest is to gradually lower the temperature. In other words, set the thermostat 5 deg below the temp of the carboy. Once the entire volume reaches a temperature equilibrium drop the thermostat another 5 deg. This would probably be ideal, but in reality you could probably get away with putting the carboy in the fridge and lowering the temp in any size even increments over the course of 2 days.
 
trigger said:
S.G. = Specific Gravity
O.G. = Original Gravity
F.G. = Final Gravity
Specific gravity, in brewing terms, is a scale comparing the relative density of a fluid to the density of water. Original gravity is brew-lingo for the specific gravity of the wort before pitching yeast. Final gravity is also brew-lingo for the specific gravity after the completion of fermentation.

Close......SG as many folks use it often refers "STARTING GRAVITY," which is the same as Original Gravity. Warndog was right in this instance.
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Thanks guys that clears it up a little better for me. Since I'm wanting to do a Baltic style Porter can I pitch at Ale temp do a diacetyl rest then throw it in the cooler ferment further? Also Should I do a big yeast stater? I've read of doing a 2 qt starter for a lager.
 
warndogg said:
Thanks guys that clears it up a little better for me. Since I'm wanting to do a Baltic style Porter can I pitch at Ale temp do a diacetyl rest then throw it in the cooler ferment further? Also Should I do a big yeast stater? I've read of doing a 2 qt starter for a lager.
Click to expand...

What yeast strain? If you're using a lager yeast, do a much bigger starter than 2 quarts, and pitch it cold not at ale temps. If you're using an ale yeast, pitch at the optimum fermentation temperature for that strain. Fermentation temperatures are dictated by the yeast strain you're using.
 
Thanks for the quick reply Yooper. I am planning on using a Munich Lager yeast. This is the reason I asked my original question... The guy I bought the fridge from for my cold fermentation told me he had trouble getting his Lager yeast to take at anything below 70, which now sounds odd. I was curious if anyone has had the same problem. I guess I'll stick to my original plan and pitch at around 50 F. Unless a more experienced brewer suggests otherwise. :)
 
You're right to pitch at 50F. The guy you bought your fridge from was probably impatient. Lager yeast can take a lot longer to ferment than ale yeast.
 
Suthrncomfrt1884 said:
You're right to pitch at 50F. The guy you bought your fridge from was probably impatient. Lager yeast can take a lot longer to ferment than ale yeast.
Click to expand...

That, and people will pitch at a warm temperature to compensate for underpitching the yeast.

Make a starter- about twice as big as you think you need. (Consult mrmalty.com for the amount you actually need- I think you'll be very surprised!). Then pitch it at 50 degrees and let it go.

I have a lager right now at 50 degrees that is gently bubbling every few seconds. I pitched it at 50, and will ferment it at 50. Trust me- it's worth it!

Think about it for a minute. If you've made ales, do you pitch at 90 degrees and then lower to 70? Sometimes people have to, because they just can't chill any lower. But usually that causes off-flavors, and gives yeast character that is undesired. Well, the same with lagers. Pitching 20 degrees above the fermentation temperature isn't going to give you the best results.
 
Thanks for all your insight Yooper (and the rest)! The way you describe the process makes it sound like common sense. Too bad for the guy I got the fridge from...oh well guess that's why he let it go for 10 bucks!
 
Just to follow up on this thread and to get a little help:

I pitched a lager at 60 degrees (the most I could cool it in my house) and then put in the fridge. Warmest I can get the fridge (with normal fridge controls, no external thermometers) is 50 degrees. Lager sat in the fridge at 50 degrees for 7 days. SG hasn't budged.

Let my SG sample sit on the kitchen counter. As it warmed, a few bubbles started popping up. So I took the bucket out of the fridge and just let it sit in the basement in the coldest corner near a window, 59 degrees. Hoping I can maintain at least 59 basement temp since outdoor temps are to be in the 10's for the next week. That's my issue to deal with.

Question I have is for the yeast. Yeast said I could ferment at 50-60, recipe said 53-59. Safe to say I didn't make a big enough starter. Should I add more yeast at this point or just swirl the bucket and let it warm?
 
warndogg said:
This is the reason I asked my original question... The guy I bought the fridge from for my cold fermentation told me he had trouble getting his Lager yeast to take at anything below 70, which now sounds odd. I was curious if anyone has had the same problem.
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There are two common trains of thought for lagers: they both work. One is to pitch the yeast at the temp you're going to keep for the entire ferment (normally 45-50 degrees). The other is to pitch at room temp and then gradually cool down to 50. I would mirror what others have said about making sure you have a large starter...especially if you decide to pitch at 50.
 
SilentAutumn said:
Let my SG sample sit on the kitchen counter. As it warmed, a few bubbles started popping up. So I took the bucket out of the fridge and just let it sit in the basement in the coldest corner near a window, 59 degrees. Hoping I can maintain at least 59 basement temp since outdoor temps are to be in the 10's for the next week. That's my issue to deal with.

Question I have is for the yeast. Yeast said I could ferment at 50-60, recipe said 53-59. Safe to say I didn't make a big enough starter. Should I add more yeast at this point or just swirl the bucket and let it warm?
Click to expand...

Do you have a yeast cake on the bottom? If so, you can try to stir it up to rouse the yeast. I wouldn't warm the beer anymore then you have: so yes, adding more yeast and yeast nutrient is an option.
 
davesrose said:
Do you have a yeast cake on the bottom? If so, you can try to stir it up to rouse the yeast. I wouldn't warm the beer anymore then you have: so yes, adding more yeast and yeast nutrient is an option.
Click to expand...

I didn't want to open the bucket and risk contamination. So I swirled the bucket around a bit. I left my SG sample in the tube with my hydrometer for a few hours and it started fermenting away. That sample is at 70 degrees though. Bucket is at 59. So I'm pretty positive fermentation will take off soon.

And I didn't think far enough in advance about the temp of my starter. I made it at room temp and added it to the 60 degree worth, then chilled to 50. In retrospect, I can see that stressing the yeast out a bit. Lesson learned!
 

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