D the Catastrophist
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Just picked up some rice balls today so will be starting a batch later.... will have to wrap in a plant seed starter mat as the house is probably too cold otherwise.
Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different
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clepirelli
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Came upon this thread a while back, sadly could not find any chinese yeast balls in my area. I did however find vietnamese ones, and after a bit of research it seems like they should do just about the same thing for this purpose.
I'm now on the third day after adding the crushed yeast balls to some warm steamed thai sticky rice, it's still a bit cold in my area so it's taking its time but the starches have definitely started turning into sugars. No visible liquid yet.
I found some korean glutinous corn and wanted to try the same method. The mold is quite visible in that much smaller batch, but no visible liquid yet either.
I'm now on the third day after adding the crushed yeast balls to some warm steamed thai sticky rice, it's still a bit cold in my area so it's taking its time but the starches have definitely started turning into sugars. No visible liquid yet.
I found some korean glutinous corn and wanted to try the same method. The mold is quite visible in that much smaller batch, but no visible liquid yet either.
Orval
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You can also try some yeasts from the brand Angel Yeast like Angel Rice Leaven.
Method they propose:
1. Soak the glutinous rice till being crushed by finger;
2. Steam and cook the glutinous rice, and cool down to about 30°C;
3. Evenly mix Angle rice leaven into the cooked glutinous rice, place into a clean vessel, and pit a hole in the cooked rice.
4. Cover with gauze and place at constant temperature of about 30°C to ferment for 24-36h.
Method they propose:
1. Soak the glutinous rice till being crushed by finger;
2. Steam and cook the glutinous rice, and cool down to about 30°C;
3. Evenly mix Angle rice leaven into the cooked glutinous rice, place into a clean vessel, and pit a hole in the cooked rice.
4. Cover with gauze and place at constant temperature of about 30°C to ferment for 24-36h.
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clepirelli
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I may be bad at googling for this stuff but it seems the cost of most of my options (including Angel Yeast) is quite prohibitive at the moment, either in shipping or for the actual product. I also don't have enough room to try and make my own Qu so I can't use an expensive option to backslop my own.
For reference, here's the Vietnamese ones I found. That same website has cheap Chinese yeast balls but they don't have them in stock at the moment.
Both batches (rice and corn) are slightly warm to the touch but still no visible liquid. I'm thinking I might not have cooled the rice enough before adding the yeast balls, something to consider for the next batch. Also, they might be too cold, so I've now wrapped them in a blanket. Looks quite silly.
For reference, here's the Vietnamese ones I found. That same website has cheap Chinese yeast balls but they don't have them in stock at the moment.
Both batches (rice and corn) are slightly warm to the touch but still no visible liquid. I'm thinking I might not have cooled the rice enough before adding the yeast balls, something to consider for the next batch. Also, they might be too cold, so I've now wrapped them in a blanket. Looks quite silly.
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Orval
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What I can read on that picture is Hefe which means yeast in German, they do not say what strain of yeast... It must have Rhizopus and Monascus purpureus...
As an alternative method, you can also follow a normal brewing process by adding amylase at around 70°C rest for 20-30 minutes then let cool down to 62°C and add gluco amylase, rest for 80 minutes. Add normal yeast when T° is around <30°C.
Orval
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What I can read on that picture is Hefe which means yeast in German, they do not say what strain of yeast... It must have Rhizopus and Monascus purpureus...
As an alternative method, you can also follow a normal brewing process by adding amylase at around 70°C rest for 20-30 minutes then let cool down to 62°C and add gluco amylase, rest for 80 minutes. Add normal yeast when T° is around <30°C.
No, that will not result in the same thing.
This is not beer, it is chinese rice wine. It relates on a specific mold and kind of random yeasts.
It is all good, he just has to wait.
The description just says that the infredients are rice flour, corn starch and yeast. As unspecific as it gets, but you have to declare the ingredients to be able to sell it in Germany. If they have been produced traditionally, nobody really knows the yeasts anyway as the process relies on wild yeasts.
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clepirelli
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Yes, I think I misremembered what I read in this thread and other information on the internet, I will wait a while instead of expecting quick results.
About the suggested process, I do not vibe with it as the kids say.
This may be a little off topic for this thread but I wondered what would happen if "risoni" pasta were inoculated the same way so I cooked up a kilo and will see if it yields anything good. The water content is much higher, so I'm tempering my expectations. Fun to try though!
About the suggested process, I do not vibe with it as the kids say.
This may be a little off topic for this thread but I wondered what would happen if "risoni" pasta were inoculated the same way so I cooked up a kilo and will see if it yields anything good. The water content is much higher, so I'm tempering my expectations. Fun to try though!
Orval
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This is not beer? Really?
Indeed, they call it rice wine, but by definition a wine is made from fruit juice, here we have a cereal and beer is made from cereals.
The first stage is gelatinization, then saccharification, followed by a fermentation, and that's the process I described. The only difference with those Chinese yeast balls is a different saccharification process, using the strains I mentioned, Rhizopus and Monascus purpureus. Angel has got two other yeasts, there's one in a gold bag, but everything
is written in Chinese and I don't know the name, the other one is Angel yeast Yellow Label.I'm attaching pictures I took 25 years ago in a village not far from Chiang Rai, where they make rice alcohol in a very primitive way by distilling that so-called rice wine...
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clepirelli
Member
Haha, thank you! I'll give it a month and post my findings, interestingly this resembles a korean technique to make makgeolli using a porridge as a base (EDIT: thought I'd mention, nuruk is quite different from the yeast balls I'm using). Since I cooked the risoni by adding water bit by bit and stirring, like one does for risotto (though without broth, or any salt), the end result is a thick porridge dotted with cooked pasta. We'll see what it yields!Wtf man!!!
That's awkwardly brilliant!
Keep us posted!
Thank you for the very interesting pictures! Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the difference between beer and rice wine is one of timing. In beer, saccharification is done before fermentation. In rice wine, the two processes happen in parallel, with yeast feeding on the sugars while the mold is still producing them. This makgeolli primer has a lot of interesting stuff to say, including a discussion on the names used to sell these products to a Western audience, but also an attempt at classifying different fermentation processes (from a Korean perspective of course):
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wongjau
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Yes, that is correct. For rice wine there is a gradual conversion of the rice during fermentation. That is why it is important how the rice is cooked and that the rice grains are distinct and loosely packed.
wongjau
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Unless the risoni has a lot of amylopectin like sticky/sweet rice, I wouldn’t expect to get anything like rice wine.
Risoni is shaped like rice, but made from flour? The shape is important, but also the composition of the fermentables. Even non sticky rice with lower amylopectin doesn’t give the best results.
To be fair, this process also works with unmalted and cooked barley. Differently flavoured, but it works (Tibetan or Himalaya chang is basically just that). So I wouldn't be surprised if this also works with pasta.
wongjau
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Glutinous rice has something like 1/3 more amylopectin than flour, very roughly speaking.
But probably will get some fermentation with the pasta.
[Edit: actually more like 55% more]
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Yes. In Chang there is much more leftover than in the rice version. I bet it is the same with the pasa.
...but pasta wine!
clepirelli
Member
Funnily enough liquefaction has already started for the pasta wine, probably because of the higher water content and difference between individual grains and a porridge-like mass.
According to my tiny bit of research, durum wheat has around 75% amylopectin to 25% amylose, so it should be alright. I wonder if the difference in protein content between pasta and rice will affect taste/fermentation in general.
The jars are looking quite comfy sharing a blanket and huddling for warmth, ah to be a little mold eating yummy starches with my buddies!
According to my tiny bit of research, durum wheat has around 75% amylopectin to 25% amylose, so it should be alright. I wonder if the difference in protein content between pasta and rice will affect taste/fermentation in general.
The jars are looking quite comfy sharing a blanket and huddling for warmth, ah to be a little mold eating yummy starches with my buddies!
wongjau
Well-Known Member
Haha. Have some wine from pasta instead of have some wine with pasta. Or both, even.
Too much water usually gets the mold into survival mode, which will make them excrete acid and sour the wine. But let's see! Maybe al dente it is next time. Or some additional stale bread to soak of the initial load of liquid? So many possibilities!
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