using tannin

I want to create a dry, english style cider. Unfortuatenly right now I'm stuck with store-bought juice.

I have some liquid tannin, would that help the process? what is the recommended dosage? 2-3-4-5 mL per 5 gallon?

Liquid tannin will definitely help achieve a more 'Englishy' feel to your cider. I personally use dry tannin to balance my ciders so no real help other than to say a little does a long way. You may also need to add some acid to keep things balanced.

thanks for the info. any idea where to start? 1mL per 5 gallons? 1 gallon per 5 gallons? I'm really at a loss here.

motobrewer said:

thanks for the info. any idea where to start? 1mL per 5 gallons? 1 gallon per 5 gallons? I'm really at a loss here.

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I used powdered tannin, so I'm sure it's not the same amount. But to help give you an idea, I use like 1/4 teaspoon in a 5 gallon batch to start. It's really a very very small amount. You can always add more, but you can't take it out- so if you start with a little bit like 3ml you can't go wrong.

The way I add the powdered stuff is to add it. Then taste it in a few hours next day. If needed, I add 1/8 teaspoon more. Some apples have more acid and need more tannin, while others have far less. You don't want to add too much because too much is almost impossible to fix.

I don't know how the powdered tannin compares to the liquid though. I would only be able to guess that it's similar in strength.

thanks for the info Yooper. Yeah, maybe I should have grabbed the powdered, but I figured the liquid would be easier to handle and measure....

I'll start with the same amount, 1/4 teaspoon (1mL) and go from there.

Not to hijack the thread or anything but yooper what type of tannin do you use? Grape tannin? Or is there an apple tannin extract that the government is hoarding out of sight from me?

I believe that most tannin additives come from chestnuts, would be cool to have apple specific tannins though.

i just had some Henney's Vintage 2010 still cider. man is that stuff good. I don't think just adding tannin is going to replicate that, lol....

another question, do you add it before or after fermentation?

Before is better, the longer tannins sit in the cider the more blended and less layered it will taste. That being said it's hard to know how much to add to raw juice to get the desired result . . . so the first time you make a recipe it makes sense to add post fermentation and 'tannin to taste' if you will. The next time you want to replicate the recipe you will know how much to add in the beginning.

LeBreton said:

I believe that most tannin additives come from chestnuts, would be cool to have apple specific tannins though.

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I've got a small tin of "grape tannin" that was given to me in a large lot of brewing equipment I bought. However it doesnt say on it what exactly it's made of. So I guess it could be made from anything of course.

I believe that tannin additives are primarily made from grape stems. I have in the past used about a 1/2 tsp per 5 gallon to start with. I always put it in after primary and then let it age for a few more months.

well i started the cider. used wlp775. first time using it, it threw up a 2" krausen.

i tasted some of the liquid tannin. pretty strong stuff!

probably let it go to about 1.005 or so, then add tannin to taste. unsure if i'm gonna carb or not.

2 inches? Was it warm? I've used 775 a bunch of times and very little was produced. Granted I've always pitched in the 60's.

mid 60's. i thought it was weird too. i have another cider right next to it using notty, no krausen. i also have a cyser next to it, 1.110 or so, using EIV-1116, no krausen....

krausen fell by the time i got home yesterday, and airlock activity increased. 775 is weird.

curiouser and curiouser.....

so the krausen fell after a day or so, airlock activity increased, and....it dropped crystal clear. airlock is still furious. it's wild seeing the streams of co2 bubbles coming from the cake on the bottom.

tasted fantastic tho. down to about 1.008 or so. i think i'm gonna let it go to 1.002-1.005. 775 is the strangest yeast I have used.