Muscadine Wine from VA

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tommyboy937

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Greetings Home Brewers!

I am new to the site and new to home brewing! With that being said, ill give some back story about what I am up to so somebody may understand my questions. I am in the process of collecting items to build an all grain brewing set up. I have been piecing together different items over the last few weeks and after discussing my new found hobby with some co-workers I found out that brewing wine is also pretty simple and I can use one of my carboys for that while I complete my all grain beer setup.

I was introduced to the local Virginia Muscadine grape and was told it makes a nice sweet wine that has a unique taste. Of course I started to peruse the internet for what on earth i needed to do with my 15 lbs of grapes. I found MANY different articles with many different ways of brewing 5 gallons of wine. I used a bit of local tribal knowledge and some of what I found online to form my Muscadine wine. 15 lbs of grapes, 5 lbs of sugar, a packet of wine yeast, yeast nutrient, 5 campden tablets, a 1/2 teaspoon of wine tannin, and an ounce of toasted oak chips in the must followed by an ounce of fresh oak chips in the primary carboy after a few days. I put it in the carboy after the SG got to around 1.04 with a brix of around 3. Right now i have no idea what my SG should be after a couple days in the first carboy.

TLTR

I could use some wine basics links.

Proportions (fruit to sugar and explanations)
Basic steps
(All wines I am sure have a similar process, crush fruit, add stuff , leave bucket for a few days, filter out big ol' chunks, put in carboy with pulpy stuff left in it, option to add sugar? , then at a certain point rack into secondary, then at another point rack into tertiary, then bottle)
I know i can find great information out there but some websites are way to detailed and some are way to plain. A middle of the road quick explanation of the process would help!

BONUS QUESTION: Anybody ever put toasted oak chips in Muscadine wine? The color is getting really nice and deep but I have 0 clue what it will taste like... :p




It looks like turning it for the picture loosened up some sediment, it was looking a bit clearer.
 
First off, this is one of the best places as far as community as I am sure you have read so far.

Top that baby off. Minimal headspace in wine. Check out some of the 'show me your wine' posts. Get all those chunks out of there. All. Toasted or not will be later, in tertiary or aging. I personally would not so soon in your wine career.

Read through some of the mead forum, there is a lot of cross over.

Sounds like you already have the gist of winemaking. You just need some gallons under your belt and some empty bottles.

Sugar to fruit varies. I usually try to get a minimum of 6# per gallon and an OG of 1.08 - 1.10. Depending on what I'm making. Lighter flavor the fruit the lower OG to start, for me anyway. I usually leave in primary until 1.04 or so. I do not add any sugar at this point. Maybe apple juice in an absolute worst case, which contains some sugar. But never directly adding sugar.

Winemaking seems like there is not any set way to do anything. People favor their technique, but there are variances.

For example, I just did 20 gallons of pear, I aimed for 1.08 but overshot and hit 1.09. Pear is a delicate flavor. I could have watered it down a bit, but I am going to roll with it. I've never done muscadine, but I hear you can bump them up a bit.

Jack Keller and Luc are two fruit wine makers that I read a lot about.
 
Ok, I take the don't oak so early comment back.

Oaking is simple, but can ruin a wine in a hurry. I just encourage to do a small amount first to test it out. Hell, I recommend it! Testing stuff out, experimenting, it's what it's all about!

Have fun, keep those pictures coming and keep us in the loop!
 
Thanks StoneArcher! Great comments! I am surprised with how fun wine making seems to be. I do worry a bit about "experimenting" because I don't want to waste using a carboy for months just to toss it in the end.

I think the challenge I am wanting to face is the challenge of taking the "backwoods" fruit wines like Muscadine and trying to bring some depth of flavor.

That may sound offensive, to be clear I am backwoods, but I prefer more complex flavors. :)
 
SO, I topped this up

1) don't use cold water
2) I had to "restart" my dormant yeast by adding a lb of sugar
3) can I continually add sugar once a week until I get to my desired SG?
 
SO, I topped this up

1) don't use cold water
2) I had to "restart" my dormant yeast by adding a lb of sugar
3) can I continually add sugar once a week until I get to my desired SG?

Regarding item #3, if you do that the yeast will eat the sugar every time you add it until it reaches its alcohol limit and dies in it's own waste :) I've read that this method is used in making ports, but never done it myself.

Like SA said, wine typically starts in the 1.080 to 1.100 range. You'll want to hit that BEFORE adding yeast. Then rack to secondary once fermentation has slowed, typically around 1.010 to 1.020, sometimes higher.
 
Regarding item #3, if you do that the yeast will eat the sugar every time you add it until it reaches its alcohol limit and dies in it's own waste :) I've read that this method is used in making ports, but never done it myself.

Like SA said, wine typically starts in the 1.080 to 1.100 range. You'll want to hit that BEFORE adding yeast. Then rack to secondary once fermentation has slowed, typically around 1.010 to 1.020, sometimes higher.

Great to know! I went from bucket to carboy at 1.05ish , it dropped down to 1.01 before I topped it up. Ill take the SG again later in the week when I add more sugar.

My only worry here is contamination and oxygen getting back in while I add sugar and measure SG....

 
Is there a forum mod that could change the title of this post to "Muscadine Wine from VA" ?
 
SO, I topped this up

1) don't use cold water
2) I had to "restart" my dormant yeast by adding a lb of sugar
3) can I continually add sugar once a week until I get to my desired SG?

1. Why not?
2. No, don't ever do that. Because each time you restart the fermentation, you have a "new" primary so to speak and then you'll have to rack again when it slows down and the yeast stalls. The only time it's common to do this is if you're making a sweet dessert wine, and so you add sugar incrementally like that to overwhelm the yeast and then have residual sweetness. The issue with that technique is it makes sweet, hot, 18-20% rocket fuel that takes about 4 years to be good.
3. See #2.

Is there a forum mod that could change the title of this post to "Muscadine Wine from VA" ?

Ok, done!
 
thanks Yooper! So its been only a couple of days since I added sugar but I must not be adding enough I am getting 0 bubbles through my airlock now and the night I added the sugar I was getting about 10 per minute....

No clue what to do at this point, I don't want to open it up again exposing it to the air to check the SG... but i want to check the SG to see if adding sugar is needed...

suggestions? Should I rack it again? its only been 4 days since I took it out of the bucket
 
thanks Yooper! So its been only a couple of days since I added sugar but I must not be adding enough I am getting 0 bubbles through my airlock now and the night I added the sugar I was getting about 10 per minute....

No clue what to do at this point, I don't want to open it up again exposing it to the air to check the SG... but i want to check the SG to see if adding sugar is needed...

suggestions? Should I rack it again? its only been 4 days since I took it out of the bucket

You shouldn't be getting any bubbles- that's normal.

You ferment in the primary until fermentation slows, and then rack it to the carboy and top up to finish and clear. It would be abnormal to see much fermentation after that- the idea is for it to stop! It should be done, or nearly so. You normally take a hydrometer reading at that time- before moving it to secondary, so you can be assured that the fermentation is nearing completion.

A hydrometer reading is pretty important to know when the fermentation is finished vs stalled. My guess is if you took a hydrometer reading, you'd know that fermentation is done, or nearly so. Then the wine begins to clear. Adding more sugar will arrest this process, as well as make the wine higher and higher alcohol with every addition. Each sugar addition will push it to a "hot" rocket fuel drink.

I'm pretty sure that isn't what you want, but I could be wrong.
 
Last night I checked the SG, 0% ABV.

This tells me a couple things, 1 no sugar present and 2 I likely never put in enough sugar for the yeast to be able to do what it does in the airlock to make alcohol.

I added about another # of sugar directly to the carboy. Too fast, a bit of a mess, not to bad to clean up though lol.

Right now its really active, any suggestions at this point? I know where I messed up for next time. The amount of sugar and when it goes in, is very important and both aspects of that I screwed up...
 
This tells me a couple things, 1 no sugar present and 2 I likely never put in enough sugar for the yeast to be able to do what it does in the airlock to make alcohol.
.

No, that's NOT was an SG of .990 or 1.000 tells you!

It tells you that you added sugar before and that it fermented out. That's exactly what is suppose to happen.

Say, the original OG was 1.100. And now it's 1.000. That means the alcohol by volume would be over 13%. If it was .990, that means the ABV is more like 14.5%! If your OG was 1.050, the current ABV is more like 11% wwith two pounds of sugar added later. What was your OG, and how many pounds of sugar did you add after that? Those are important details.

Again, with each sugar addition, you'll increase the SG and then it'll ferment again to .990. That means it's going to get boozier, and boozier, and you'll have rocket fuel soon. It's important to be able to "add" the sugar to your OG, so you must be darn near 12% or so now.

I would highly recommend to stop restarting fermentation, and figure out where the wine is now, if you want this to be drinkable.
 
I am clearly not understanding how to take readings with my hydrometer. I was under the impression that the more alcohol the density of the water would change due to water being heavier right? So I have no clue how to figure out where my wine is.... since I don't understand the relationship of the original reading vs. now. 1.04 to 1.00 as of last night and I added about 1 more #... i can check the SG again but how am i really going to know the ABV?

Yooper you are awesome, I think I rushed making my first wine ... thank you for all the pointers!
 
I am clearly not understanding how to take readings with my hydrometer. I was under the impression that the more alcohol the density of the water would change due to water being heavier right? So I have no clue how to figure out where my wine is.... since I don't understand the relationship of the original reading vs. now. 1.04 to 1.00 as of last night and I added about 1 more #... i can check the SG again but how am i really going to know the ABV?

Yooper you are awesome, I think I rushed making my first wine ... thank you for all the pointers!

Remember that the hydrometer measures the sugar in suspension. As it ferments, it's no longer in suspension. Alcohol is lighter than water, and it's common for wines to get to .990 (water is 1.000).

What was the original reading? And then, how many pounds of sugar have you added in total (after the original reading)? Oh, and the total volume in the carboy (roughly)? And last, what is the reading right now?

I can guestimate where you are at with some quick and rough figuring.
 
Original SG when i transfered to the carboy 1.04 SG (4 gal roughly, pictured in this thread)

After topping up 1.01 sg (5 gal +, pictured in thread)

After fermentation stopped 1.00 sg + 1 lb sugar

2nd time fermentation stopped (2 days later) 1.00 sg +1 lb sugar

Its still bubbling away but has reduced in speed by about 200% likely by Sunday it will no longer be gassing off
 
Not trying to be a meany here, but I think you might have a general misunderstanding of the fermentation process. In general you should make all your sugar additions at the beginning to achieve your desired OG (original gravity, not to be confused with original gangster). Then you add your yeast and let it ferment until the yeast has consumed all the sugar in solution, aka it's dry.

At this point you take another gravity reading to get your final gravity number. The difference between the gravity readings at the beginning and end will give you your total alcohol content.

Like I said these are general rules, so generally at no point should you add more sugar. It will only kick off fermentation again and increase the alcohol content, as Yooper has described.

Hope this helps!
 
Not trying to be a meany here, but I think you might have a general misunderstanding of the fermentation process. In general you should make all your sugar additions at the beginning to achieve your desired OG (original gravity, not to be confused with original gangster). Then you add your yeast and let it ferment until the yeast has consumed all the sugar in solution, aka it's dry.

At this point you take another gravity reading to get your final gravity number. The difference between the gravity readings at the beginning and end will give you your total alcohol content.

Like I said these are general rules, so generally at no point should you add more sugar. It will only kick off fermentation again and increase the alcohol content, as Yooper has described.

Hope this helps!

I wouldn't be on here if I weren't counting on constructive criticisms :) I actually am hoping for it! Why couldn't I have learned how this process (wine making) works when I took Organic Chem ? LOL Its the worst when people explain how it works and it makes complete sense. Next round Ill add sugar until I reach my desired OG then carboy and live yeast? Once the airlock has reverse pressure I take my SG and bing search how that calculation works for telling you ABV?
 
The SG going into the carboy doesn't matter- what matters is the OG (original gravity) before you pitch the yeast. A few days after fermentation, when it's 1.040, doesn't help at all unfortunately. It seems like your first reading of 1.040 was taken days after fermentation was active, so that reading is useless.

2 pounds of sugar in 5 gallons would add 18 gravity points to 5 gallons. You added 5 pounds originally, plus 15 pounds of grapes. 5 pounds of sugar would give you about 46 pounds, so that right there is 1.064 just in sugar.

It's hard to guess what the 15 pound of grapes would bring, but you definitely get some from them. I have no idea how much natural sugar your grapes had, but you'll know that next time that an OG reading is crucial, to get the original gravity.

If we assume you got 20 points from the grapes (just a totally wild guess- it could be less or much more), that right there would be 1.085ish. Since I have no idea what the reading is today, I'll have to guess there also. I'll guess .994-.996 but I could be wrong. It could be lower.

That means, the wine is currently +/- 12% ABV. Could be a little less, or could be a whole lot more.

It's time to leave it alone, either way. It won't be improved by continuing to boost the alcohol- it'll be hot rocket fuel quickly and take years to age out.
 
Obviously, I can't add anything to what's already been said as it's spot on (especially Yooper). I would suggest wondering over to Jack Keller's site for a bunch of good info on the winemaking processes. Of course, and not to detract from HBT's wealth of info (I spend WAY more time 'educating' :drunk: myself here), it's a great place to start for much of the basics.

Good luck!!!!
 
I wouldn't be on here if I weren't counting on constructive criticisms :) I actually am hoping for it! Why couldn't I have learned how this process (wine making) works when I took Organic Chem ? LOL Its the worst when people explain how it works and it makes complete sense. Next round Ill add sugar until I reach my desired OG then carboy and live yeast? Once the airlock has reverse pressure I take my SG and bing search how that calculation works for telling you ABV?

Yes, if you need to add sugar to adjust the OG, do so at the very beginning before adding yeast. Then add the yeast to your must. Whether you use a carboy or bucket is totally up to you. It's very common for wine makers to use a large bucket for primary fermentation.

When fermentation slows (around 5 days or so) transfer to something that minimizes the head space above your wine. From this point forward you want to have minimal exposure to air to reduce chances of oxidation.

And yes, bing works. I use Dave's Dreaded Homebrew Calculator.
 
Once I siphon into another carboy Ill take another picture and do a taste test. I have never tasted wine during the process any pointers on that? I have been smelling it as it gasses off and it smells like red wine... lol but I am curious about the specific taste at this point.

You all have been very helpful, Yooper your detailed explanations have made things really clear, thank you!
 
Give it a small taste, swish it around in your mouth thinking about what it is doing for you. Don't get in any hurry to swallow but when you do think again about what it is doing. Does it burn going down?

Then let Yopper and the rest know about the experience. For me I have found that new wine burns my throat at about 13 or 14 %.
 
No burn at all, it tasted like a sugarless moscato... i put some "yeast killer" in per the instructions waited a couple of hours and added a # of sugar per gal, its gonna sit now for at least a couple of months before I bottle it and try it again.

It racked really nice and clean, looked great in a glass even
 
No burn at all, it tasted like a sugarless moscato... i put some "yeast killer" in per the instructions waited a couple of hours and added a # of sugar per gal, its gonna sit now for at least a couple of months before I bottle it and try it again.

It racked really nice and clean, looked great in a glass even

"Yeast killer"? You mean wine conditioner? It doesn't actually kill yeast, so if the wine wasn't clear it may keep fermenting.
 
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