Corny Keg Fermenter?

I think my affair with plastic is on the rocks. As much as I love the ease of cleaning I feel I can improve my brewing by switching to another type of vessel.

I'm curious about using cornie kegs to ferment in. I don't like the limitation on volume- 4 gallons is probably max and the tall narrow cylindrical shape might have a negative effect on some yeast strains. But I consider it a viable option.

Any advice, experience and methods to utilize cornie kegs as fermenters?

Options?

rad

Just wondering, how do you feel that your brewing can improve?

Mainly in the area of sanitation.

Have you had any infected batches?

I ferment in corny- 5 gallon batches, with use of blow off tube. No light pollution, easy to sanitize, already have the equipment, fairly easy to maintain temps, easy to rack over to secondary/serving keg without concern for sanitation, etc.

I put Sure Screens (sold on Northern brewer for 7.99) on the dip tubes to help filter out excess hoppage and such. Works for me.

find the rare 10 gallon corny..they are out there..i am still kicking myself for not buying one i saw a few weeks ago for 30 bucks!

thevalkrye said:

find the rare 10 gallon corny..they are out there..i am still kicking myself for not buying one i saw a few weeks ago for 30 bucks!

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Can I help?

The head space is some what of an issue when fermenting... hence the blow off tube.

$30!?!?

You guys will probably hate me but I found a 10 gallon corny at a garage sale for $10, yes $10! I've been thinking about brewing up a few 8 gallon batches and fermenting in the 10 gallon corny but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Ewalk02 said:

You guys will probably hate me but I found a 10 gallon corny at a garage sale for $10, yes $10! I've been thinking about brewing up a few 8 gallon batches and fermenting in the 10 gallon corny but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

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Sounds like a great find and an excellent idea for putting it to use. Congratulations.

I use corneys as secondaries/clearing tanks. They work great and you can move everything in and out with CO2. Great for dry hopping and adding flavorings to secondary. There isn't much to know, other than if you're going to use it as a primary, make sure you've got a good plan for the blow-off tube. I wouldn't bother cutting the dip tube or anything. A screen can probably solve most of your hop particle problems and if you think of the first pint or more as part of your yeast harvesting you won't mind the trub so much.

Thanks guys. I was wondering about the blow-off part and the dip tube. I figured I'd only be able to do 4 gallons in a 5g cornie.

I secondary in my kegs too. The difference is that I don't transfer before serving. LOL. I just toss the first half a pint or so.

I'm exploring options since I had a rash of lacto infections in the late summer. I've incorporated into my overall strategy a sanitation technique: I fill the plastic bucket(s) with water after cleaning and suspend a heat-stick into it. I manage to carry about 200F for a hour. I figure any nasties in scratches can't handle the conducted heat for that long. This appears to work well but my confidence in plastic has been shaken. The bacteria could have been airborne... I've practiced open fermentation (lid not snapped down) and lifting the lid might have allowed an unseen particle to drift in. I've since retreated to closed fermentation.

The buckets will wear out eventually, and since I use spigots that are beginning to fail (leak) I'll be transitioning to another type of vessel sometime in the next several months. I figure- got lots of kegs... Why not?

Beats spending $550 on something Stainless.

I fermented in some cornie kegs, was not able to do 5 gallons but I did get 4 gallons or so out of it. Also cut the dip tube and glad I did. Beer has turned out well so far.

You may want to look into using a sanke keg, that way you can do 5 or 10 gallon batches.

Ewalk02 said:

You guys will probably hate me but I found a 10 gallon corny at a garage sale for $10, yes $10!

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Yes I really do!

Just got my BYO mag the other day in the mail...they had a write-up about using a 5 gallon corny as a fermentor.

I didn't want to cut my dip tubes, so I use these from Northern Brewer. So far with cold crashing and such I have been happy with my results, and other then a lager I should have let go more (It's been in kegerator chilling for a week- getting better) I don't have a problem with excess yeast etc.

Rad,

Yes and Yes!

I am a born again corny fermenter here to sing the praises of stainless steel. Halleleujah! All you have to do for a blowoff tube is get one of those gray gas connector ball lock valves from your LHBS for a buck or two, connect it to the "IN" port of the keg, then run about 2.5 feet of open ended tubing from it to a blow off bottle sitting next to the keg. A half gallon milk jug with sanitizer/water works great. Set it on the ground and duct tape it to the side of the of the keg as a safety measure against spillage. I've never had trouble with the blowoff clogging.

Advantages are:

* Fit more kegs than carboys in a lagering fridge
* No risk of glass breakage
* No light damage
* Uber easy to move
* Use CO2 pressure to push out some of the yeast cake to a sterile storage container... or cut an inch or two off the dip tube to force-transer beer to secondary, then collect the yeast cake manually with a ladel (if desired). Sometimes I use a regular siphon, sometimes I use Co2 to transfer....depending if I've cut the dip tube for the particular keg.

Regarding cleaning, don't let the keg sit after racking beer to secondary. Wash before the crud can dry. I usually spray off the easy stuff off the sides and bottom, then put a gallon of hot PBW water in the keg, seal the lid, and turn it upside down for an hour or so then rinse/sanitize. This almost eliminates scrubbing under the brim and around the ports.

A corny holds 5.24 gallons up to the brim, so you really only can do 5.0 gallon batches. That's about the only disadvantage.

I just moved my winter warmer and spiced ale to secondary the other day, forcing over with CO2 and sure screens in the primary vessels- HOLY TRUB BATMAN! I think the winter warmer won, it had about 2 inches of cake on the bottom! Good news, as usual, the beer going over to secondary looked pretty darn clear Just FYI

So, when you say HOLY TRUB, you mean that was what was left behind, right? I think if the sure screens work that well then I may need to revisit the corny fermenting idea......

Theres a great article in this months BYO about using cornys as fermenters

So, with the sure screens, you don't cut the tube, and can rack with co2 and not take the trub to the secondary?

Three years ago when on the NorthernBrewer forum that i'm also on someone mentioned that a company was building taller corny's by welding two together for a larger capacity for extra fermenting blowoff space. Before this I came along and mentioned about cutting the bottom just were it starts to radius inward on a standard corny. From this I Tig welded a 11" tall rolled SS cone, added a 3/4" nipple welded to the bottom. The nipple at the cone end I machined the ID to a 30 degree taper. My friend had a larger volume custom corny fermenter that he later added a racking arm. It worked like a champ provided a couple trub yeast dumps were done preventing any transfer later when racking. I had to make a small lower hoop just below the racking arm plus one half way up the corny's side then added 4 legs. I lost contact with him I believe it's (fermenter) is now in New Zealand somewhere. This small conical added more volume to the corny fermenter plus worked great for this small volume brewer allowing very little blowoff problems during the early active fermenting stages.
A 10 gallon corny would be great for another conical bottom conversion but the cost of them is beyond the crazy asking price zone. Yes I read a couple $30 purchases, never happens to me.

jamesrm said:

So, with the sure screens, you don't cut the tube, and can rack with co2 and not take the trub to the secondary?

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You got it

I think I should just do a write up with pictures on this sometime...

I suppose this question is related to Corny fermentation as much as yeast pitching rates. In about three years of monthly brewing, I've been lucky and never lost a batch to an infection or disastrous spill. Well, my time finally arrived yesterday.

I had a 10 gallon big Irish Red (OG of 1.074) split into two corny kegs with blow off tubes connected via the gas-in port. They both drained to a gallon jug of sanitizer water that was about half full and sitting on the ground next to the fermenting kegs.

Fortunately (read on) I set the blowoff jug inside an old kettle next to the fermentors in case of any bubbling over. I checked on the kegs at about 36 hours after pitching the yeast and the 7 gallon "bubble over" kettle was FULL of beer. I basically lost about three gallons from each keg.

Is it possible for a siphoning force to develop with the pressure inside the keg? I've had some vigorous high krausens with carboys and cornies, but never anything like this.

The gas-in port only has a half-inch or so tube extending down in the keg that doesn't really even touch the krausen.

Two days prior to brewing, I made 10 ounce DME starter at about 1.046 and added two smack packs of British Ale II yeast. Right before pitching, I swirled the starter and split it between the two kegs.

Does this sound like an overpitching or siphon phenomenon...or both. I've done this type of starter a zillion times, so I'm guessing some type of siphon force developed.

Have you actually looked into the kegs to verify how much you lost? (Careful doing so!) I don't see how you could have lost so much, unless you accidentally had the out dip tube in that post... With a high fermentation temp, I could see it being very active, but even if you created a siphon effect, the gas tube should be above your actual liquid level (hence typical worry of siphoning is actually it sucking in from the blow off, which is why I set mine on the floor at a lower level). I do also set my blow offs in a bucket to account for overflow (that krausen really likes to bubble a lot).

Ambient temp of the room was 64 d.f. Yes, I looked in the kegs and there's only 1.5 to 2.0 gallons each. I do recall a saying to myself "put the dip tube on the in-post." My connectors don't fit the out-posts on these particular kegs without a fight.

Gravity on the remaining beer was 1.016 (down from 1.074 in 36 hours...yikes, thats an active fermentation). Will probably just bottle the remnants in a few growlers and store for a month or so and save the yeast for this weekend.

You had to have had your posts on backwards or something to that effect. The only way you could lose that much actual beer is if you had your blowoff on the bev out diptube. The increasing pressure would push it right out of the keg.....

No matter how you slice it, you'd break the siphon with the foaminess of the krausen....and there would be too much vaccuum to keep it going.

Anything's possible, though.

BrewBeemer said:

Three years ago when on the NorthernBrewer forum that i'm also on someone mentioned that a company was building taller corny's by welding two together for a larger capacity for extra fermenting blowoff space. Before this I came along and mentioned about cutting the bottom just were it starts to radius inward on a standard corny. From this I Tig welded a 11" tall rolled SS cone, added a 3/4" nipple welded to the bottom. The nipple at the cone end I machined the ID to a 30 degree taper.

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This is a great idea. I wonder what it would cost to join the two cornies together and add the cone with a coupler or two? If you could even do this yourself, you could potentially fit 3-4 slim "conicals" in a chest freezer.

Well....crap....I visually checked my cornies tonight.

The stamped "IN" sign on the rubber lid of the corny keg was actually on the DIP tube side for BOTH kegs. I just got these kegs on the cheap from LHBS and unfortunately assumed all was well in keg-ville.

What are the odds? Live and learn!

At least my favorite neighborhood pub across the street has a Belgian=Dipped Chocolate stout on nitro tonight.

Pardon me while I drown my sorrows in beer and fries...

Man, here I am a sucker with home made szechwan.... It happens- I'm mostly posting to advise you to replace your O-rings. I don't know if they replaced them or not, but considering the dip tubes, I would probably change them. If you like them, I'd let them know what happened to (if they like you, you might get a little 'thank you').

Have fun, be safe, and happy brewing!

ScubaSteve said:

This is a great idea. I wonder what it would cost to join the two cornies together and add the cone with a coupler or two? If you could even do this yourself, you could potentially fit 3-4 slim "conicals" in a chest freezer.

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It cost me less than $30 for the stainless sheet and the nipple.
I cut the stainless and had a friend with a slip roll roll the cone. I have a big Tig welder in my shop.
Unless you want to add the Argon gas and filler rod used, labors free it was by guessing $32 total. This conical added another 3/4 gallon of volume to the corny.
Around two to three years ago someone was cutting and making taller corny's without the conical bottom for a volume of 7 1/2 gallons
I may be wrong on this volume. Sold thru a commercial equipment supplier or company that had other items of equipment for sale.
I do recall it was not cheap for these extended corny's like in the crazy asking price range. Not to offend anyone with any of this reply like on one of my recent replies I have been now called a "visitor" on this forum.

I don't think that's true at all...in fact I think you've made some major contributions to the equipment section. It's good to have people that know welding and metal fab on here....I'd say you're an asset to the forum. Sometimes it's hard to get the inflection of someone's voice when you can only read what they've written. I think those guys were just giving you a hard time. Don't let it bother you.

instead of hooking up a quick connect to a hose to use as a blowoff couldn't you just take the gas post and gas tube out and then just use a hose?

For those of you who use cornies as primaries, do you recommend putting 5 or 4 gallons in there?

jp1316 said:

instead of hooking up a quick connect to a hose to use as a blowoff couldn't you just take the gas post and gas tube out and then just use a hose?

For those of you who use cornies as primaries, do you recommend putting 5 or 4 gallons in there?

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Yes you could, in fact I'd say it's a better way to go, less likelyhood of developing a clog inside the post around the popette or the gas QD.

With a blow off tube I don't see why anyone would want to go with just 4 gal.

According to some experts (if I'm not mistaken John Palmer is one of them) having a good blow off creates a better beer, plus you would not get much of a blow off with only 4 gal. so I say go with 5 gal.

Also cutting a dip tube off is a terrible idea IMHO they are far to easy just to bend upwards slightly. Just take a phillips head or Torx screw driver that fits fairly snugly into the dip tube place the tube over your knee and slowly carefully bend it (super easy) I've never crimped one and I'd done it many times. That way you aren't creating a permanently short dip tube but rather one that can be restored to it's original position simply by straightening it back out.

I guess I am just a little worried that it will get clogged because it doesn't seem like that big of hole. Anyone know what size hose to use(yes i realize i can just measure myself but if someone already knows then there is no need for me to)?

I just bought an extra dip tube that I planned on cutting(undecided length) and using it to transfer all of the primary stuff to secondary...but now I'm thinking about just getting a sure screen.

Use Fermcap, and you shouldn't have much of an issue with blowoff/clogging.

You won't regret the small investment in the sure screen; alternatively, if you're worried about clogging, remove the poppet in the post, open up an air connect and remove the depressor and spring (again, store carefully). This way, you have the full diameter of post etc for blow off.

I still say you can't go wrong with the sure screens

Friars_Kettle said:

All you have to do for a blowoff tube is get one of those gray gas connector ball lock valves from your LHBS for a buck or two, connect it to the "IN" port of the keg
...
Advantages are:

* Fit more kegs than carboys in a lagering fridge
* No risk of glass breakage
* No light damage
* Uber easy to move
* Use CO2 pressure to push out some of the yeast cake

Click to expand...

I am giving serious thought to going to cornies for my fermentation. I currently use 5gal carboys for my primary/secondary so I am used to that limitation. I am interesting in getting more batches into my temp-controlled fridge, the ease of moving, unbreakableness, etc.

My understanding is that I should get:
ball lock cornies (sold locally for $25 each)
mesh dip tube sleeves to minimize trub pickup
gas in disconnects for blowoff

What am I missing here?

I don't think you need the gas in disconnects for blowoff, I would just take the body connect off and put a hose over the post. I would also get something for foam control during fermentation, but that depends on what size batches your making...for 5 gallons I definitely would, for 4 gallons I don't really know but it can't hurt. I am getting ready to try this(using keg as primary) for the first time in a couple of weeks, so that is just my 2 cents.

Is it only me that's not had any problems using a plastic fermenting bucket and putting the resulting beer into a cornie, gassing up and serving? I can see why novices to AG brewing would decide that it wasn't for them.

I'm not saying that a cornie couldn't be used as an FV but why the hell would you want to!

I am going to start making larger batches so I needed to get more kegs for dispensing anyways, so I figured I might as well save some money and use them for fermenting as well.

Parva said:

Is it only me that's not had any problems using a plastic fermenting bucket and putting the resulting beer into a cornie, gassing up and serving? I can see why novices to AG brewing would decide that it wasn't for them.

I'm not saying that a cornie couldn't be used as an FV but why the hell would you want to!

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Space mostly is why I stated.

Easier to move - plus less worries of spillage doing so
Smaller foot print to store
Easier to clean - Plus no worries of scratching plastic, promoting bacteria
No worries about light contamination
Closed system transfer to secondary/final keg, so no chance of oxidation
Great for conditioning your beer

I'm sure there's more but I didn't have my coffee yet... They look better when I do have them out, rather then a bunch of large buckets which would end up sitting out somewhere where they would have to be moved and an eye sore all the time. Cornies I can actually tuck away in my small apartment.