2 months in, tastes like soap. Salvage?

well I'm two months into my first brew. It looks beautiful (it's an Amber from an extract kit). It's clear, has a nice head on it, and carbonated well. The problem is it tastes bad.

To be honest there's not much of a beer flavor to it, and what flavor there is just doesn't seem right. I'm not a major beer drinker (wierd choice of hobby I know) but I know that this isn't what beer is supposed to taste like.

Once you get past the first bit and actually swallow, it hits you... This beer tastes like dish soap.

I read around and I think I know what happened. On my brew day I screwed up and poured EVERYTHING from the pot into the fermenting bucket, sediment and all. I realized what I had done the next day, when someone corrected me, and so I knew I had to rack to a secondary fermenter as soon as I could. Primary fermentation took 9 days, so all that time it sat on that gunk. I racked into a carboy for secondary and left it there for two and a half weeks. It's been bottled and in my basement for about 4 weeks now.

I've been sneaking a bottle each week to taste as the aging process does its work. I thought at first that what I was tasting was a "green" beer, but as the rest of the beer mellowed, the soapy taste remains.

My question is, can this batch be salvaged at all? Is there any hope that another two or three months of aging can fix this? I know this has happened to other people, what are your experiences with this?

The Gunk is fine, it settles to the bottom anyway.

artbrewer said:

The Gunk is fine, it settles to the bottom anyway.

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the gunk isn't really the problem anymore though. The beer is clear in the bottles, just a little bit of yeast on the bottom as usual. The only reason I mention it is that according to the "how to brew" book, leaving the beer to ferment on the trub for too long can cause this soapy flavor, which is actually soap.

Soapy flavors can caused by not washing your glass very well, but they can also be produced by the fermentation conditions. If you leave the beer in the primary fermentor for a relatively long period of time after primary fermentation is over ("long" depends on the style and other fermentation factors), soapy flavors can result from the breakdown of fatty acids in the trub. Soap is, by definition, the salt of a fatty acid; so you are literally tasting soap.

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I'm just curious as to whether or not this will go away in time, if anyone has encountered it before. I saw a few posts about it, but no one ever said if it actually went away or they disposed of their failed batch

ehh, after 2 months if its not getting weaker, I doubt it'll age out.

I've dumped my entire kettle into primary many many times, and never had soapy beer.

What are you using for a sanitizer?

i used star-san on the bucket and equipment on brew day, and one-step on everything after that (I rinsed with both)

What kind of hops? Whole/pellet? New/Old?

Which yeast? Starter?

Tap water? Rubber Hose?

My first was a Hefeweizen and I dumped the whole thing, trub and all, in the fermentor. I doubt what you have done has anything to do with the soap taste. My Hefeweizen wasn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it was good beer. Did you ferment at too high a temperature? That can make things go bad in a hurry.

it was a True Breew amber kit. Cascade hop pellets, unsure of the yeast. Pre-boiled and cooled tap water (we have suprisingly good tasty tap water here).

I kept fermentation around 72 (best I could do at the time). maybe that is a little high?

There's a really good chance the ingredients were old. I got them from a homebrew supplier, but it was through ebay, so who knows what they sent me...

I made a true brew kit ONCE....it was awful...canadian ale...it was like drinking battery acid!
i think their kits have some poor ingredients.

Did you say you rinsed after you sanitized?

Also I don't trust onestep, it skirts a fine line of being a true sanitizer (it is NOT fda approved as one) I posted a lot of info about that here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/sanitizer-question-54932/?highlight=sanitizer+question

I don't think the issue is from dumping everything into the fermenter, many of us do that regularly. Rule that out and look at some other possible casues.

Too high of a temp, poor sanitization, not rinsing the soap or cleaner good enough out of your bottles, gear etc....

I may be way off base here, but...
When I first branched out from BMC into drinking 'specialty beers' a few years ago, I drank a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, which (at that time) I thought tasted like hair shampoo. That taste was the citrusy/floral Cascade hops to my virgin palate - something that I was totally unfamiliar with. If you have not had a SNPA or other Cascade-ey beer before, go buy one and see if you get the same flavor as you're describing. Only because you say this is your first brew, and you're not a major beer drinker, I think you may just be tasting the hops.

My wife thinks Bell's Two Hearted tastes like soap

wow, I never thought of that... Maybe the beer still needs to age and what I'm tasting is normal? That sounds too good to be true (in a way, lol).

To back track a bit, yes I rinsed after sanitizing, but onyl because I didn't trust the one-step either. I rinsed with still hot, boiled water. It was practically still boiling actually.

I think I'm just going to toss these somewhere in the basement and forget about them for a while Maybe try them around thanksgiving. I'm starting a cider now, but got a LOT less juice from my pears than I thought (100 year old cider press broke ) so it's just a one gallon batch, whcih I have enough empty bottles for already.

thanks for all the input. I'll definately keep this thread updated as the beer ages so if anyone else runs into the same situation in the future they'll know what to expect.

thatjoshguy said:

wow, I never thought of that... Maybe the beer still needs to age and what I'm tasting is normal? That sounds too good to be true (in a way, lol).

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Yes it is USUALLY the answer to about 99% of the "My beer tastes like _____"threads. It is almost never what the new brewer diagnoses, that's why I suggest noone try diagnose an off flavor until it has beer around 8 weeks in the bottle.

You threw us with the two months comment....when you get to the carbing/bottle condition phase, length of time in primary or secondary actually has little bearing on figuring out if something's wrong with the beer....It is really about length of time in the bottle.

I go into great detail about the carbing conditioning process here. Revvy's Blog, Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning.

And if you read this tread, and see some of the stories, especially mine which is a extreme example of long term conditioning; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

You will see that often when people think something is wrong with their beer, it is usally IS just green, and disappears with time.

There's no gaurentee this is the issue with yours, that you aren't waiting long enough..but until we pass a window (like 8 weeks) where we can't say your beer is just green anymore, then we don't really know.

All brewers with taste issues really need to rule out greeness before they can figure out what might be wrong. Green beer often manifests as all those so-called off flavors that the show in books and on the wheel...the only difference is, it usually conditions away in time...then if it has actually gotten worse or stayed the same, in other words, NOT FADED then we can say "oh it's chloramines, or too high ferm temp, yadda yadda yadda" but we really can't get to that part of the journey until we pass the "green mile."

artbrewer said:

I made a true brew kit ONCE....it was awful...canadian ale...it was like drinking battery acid!
i think their kits have some poor ingredients.

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I'm drinking that right now... I thought it was pretty good and its one of my buddies favorites. :cross: The only complaint I have is clarity

thanks for all the help everyone! A buddy of mine who has a better taste for beer tried it and though he's not a brewer he spotted the flavor as having "somthing to do with the hops" so maybe that's the case. I will say that bottle tasted better than the last time I tried it, but I had just finished a commercial beer about 2 minutes before that so who knows. time will tell!

UPDATE: It's been a month since I last tates the beer and guess what? IT TATES LIKE A WHOLE NEW BEER! I personally would not brew this exact kit again, as the flavor is just not my cup of tea, but a freind of mine (Who loves Sierra Nevada Pale Ale by the way) tried it, liked it, and wouldn't leave me a lone until I gave him a six pack. To me I can still taste a soap-like flavor in there, but he swears it's delicious and a few other people have really enjoyed it as well, so what do I know? lol

Thanks for all the wisdom folks. I hope that if anyone else in the future runs into a sopay beer they'll find this thread and get some hope! Don't throw it out, just give it time! It may get better!

As a side note, I just ordered Northern Brewer's Irish Red Ale kit offf their website. It's my favorite type of beer, and based on the reviews I'm sure I acn find a few more fans of this one than I did with the True Brew Amber! OH! and as luck would have it I found a small homebrew supply store jsut 5 min from my house! It's a liquor store, but the owner is a brewer, so he has a pretty nice selection. It's the Spirit Shoppe in Nutter Fort, WV if anyone local is interested

I have made three True Brew kits so far. Brown Ale, Oktoberfest, and the Amber. Today I will be trying my first Amber so I can't comment on it yet except the sample I took for FG tasted great. The other two where my first and second batch and both tasted great! I only have two of the brown ale, and four of the Oktoberfest left.
I thought the True Brew kits
worked out ok, but now that I see the quality of the kits that are out there
like from AHS, I don't think I will use many more True Brew Kits.
Dave

thatjoshguy said:

A friend of mine (Who loves Sierra Nevada Pale Ale by the way) tried it, liked it, and wouldn't leave me a lone until I gave him a six pack.

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Just a few rules to follow, if you give HB to a friend, remind them to return the empties and any other beer bottles they collect. Bonus's for bombers.
Start making a list of the hops you don't care for, and brews you don't care for. Brew what you like.
Have fun, and enjoy!

I just had the same problem!! Beer tastes great at first, but the soap flavor just hangs in the back of your throat after you swallow. Makes it undrinkable.

I left my beer fermenting about 6 days too long in the primary fermenter. I think that's what happened to this batch.
___________________
www.sofakingdrunk.com

TheSofaKing said:

I just had the same problem!! Beer tastes great at first, but the soap flavor just hangs in the back of your throat after you swallow. Makes it undrinkable.

I left my beer fermenting about 6 days too long in the primary fermenter. I think that's what happened to this batch.
___________________
www.sofakingdrunk.com

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How long do you consider 6 days to long? Most of us nowadays leave our beers in primary for 3-4 weeks as a normal course of action and have found our beers are better for it..People have left their beers 6 months or more with no issues, and no soapy taste.

Did you also happen to notice how this beer turned out?

UPDATE: It's been a month since I last tates the beer and guess what? IT TATES LIKE A WHOLE NEW BEER! I personally would not brew this exact kit again, as the flavor is just not my cup of tea, but a freind of mine (Who loves Sierra Nevada Pale Ale by the way) tried it, liked it, and wouldn't leave me a lone until I gave him a six pack. To me I can still taste a soap-like flavor in there, but he swears it's delicious and a few other people have really enjoyed it as well, so what do I know? lol

Thanks for all the wisdom folks. I hope that if anyone else in the future runs into a sopay beer they'll find this thread and get some hope! Don't throw it out, just give it time! It may get better!

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There is a "real" home-brew shop in Nutter Fort and it's not The Spirit Shop. The only down side is that the "Cellar" is only open on Fridays. Todd is the real deal home brewer and winemaker. Anyhow. , his shop is behind RG Honda in the back basement of the old Custom Carpet. The guys at the spirit shop looked at me like I was retarded when I asked them to get me some liquid yeast, Said they never heard of such a thing and the age of their kits are always old.

There are a couple solutions I have found just experimenting. All will probably add flavors to your beer (or wine, this happens sometimes with wine kits that require water added to concentrated grape syrup), but hopefully not too much and ones that won't be objectionable.
Prevent the problem before it happens, if possible. If your water is too alkaline: add acid, such as lemon/lime juice, or ascorbic acid powder or liquid.
If it's already soapy: I was filtering my wine through a gold permanent coffee machine filter, mainly to get yeast and a little remaining lees out. It will still need fining later, but in desperation over the soapy issue, I threw about a tablespoon of Citra hops pellets in the filter basket and poured the wine through it. Like magic, the wine on the other side of the process didn't smell or taste soapy. My suspicion is that the organic leafy material of the hops absorbed the oiliness of the dissolved soap. I didn't use much because I didn't want to impart too much flavor to the wine, but since it was a fruity white (Pinot Grigio) and the citrusy/tropical fruit flavors of the hops kind of matched the flavor profile, it doesn't add something that will stand out as an adulterant. Be sure the beer or wine you are filtering this way is cool, if it's hot it may pick up more bitterness.
A blander plant material like hay may work too; it might add flavors consonant with a grassy Chardonnay.
As a last hope alternative to throwing it out, try this.