the tartness in a saison -- where does it come from?

I once made a saison with yeast cultured from a bottle of saison dupont. It was amazing. But it lacked the subtle sourness I like so much in a saison. How do you get it to come out a little more tart? I don't think there are any lactobacilli in that beer.

Should try some acid malt?
Is there a particular fermentation temperature that accentuates tartness?

Yes and Yes. The use of some acidulated malt will add that sharpness you are perceiving as sourness and there are yeasts that add a bit of acidity such as the Bastogne strain.

There are few beers better than a good saison with some acidity.

how much acidulated malt are we talking about? I'm guessing I could steep 4 to 6 oz or so?

You should try a sour mash, they are super fun...it's like a mini brew day a couple days before the real brew day!

the sour mash is indeed fun but not the "sourness" that he is looking for. I would say in 5 gallons give 6 oz a try and see how you like it. That is roughly what I used in a batch that is still fermenting.

cool, can't wait to try it.

that bastogne yeast strain sounds good, too... maybe I'll get some since it's june!

Reverend JC said:

the sour mash is indeed fun but not the "sourness" that he is looking for.

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Why's that?

Because that is an actual souring of the grain due to a form of lactobacillus. What he is preceiving as sourness is an acidity given off by the yeast or in this case a small % of acidulated malt. It adds a "sharpness" that can be described as sour but technically is not.

Reverend JC said:

Because that is an actual souring of the grain due to a form of lactobacillus. What he is preceiving as sourness is an acidity given off by the yeast or in this case a small % of acidulated malt. It adds a "sharpness" that can be described as sour but technically is not.

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I have gotten very good results by sour mashing only a small portion of the mash to acheive this. I think the acidity that the l. bacillus adds can be wonderful in a saison as long as it is restrained.

Tonedef131 said:

I have gotten very good results by sour mashing only a small portion of the mash to acheive this. I think the acidity that the l. bacillus adds can be wonderful in a saison as long as it is restrained.

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I am not doubting that and I have a friend who has made several beers with great results souring the mash but the OP specifically pointed out Saison Dupont which is not soured with lacto.

Ok, so: I wasn't able to get acidulated malt at the homebrew store, but I did a little research that indicated that acidulated malt is basically a pilsner malt that's sprayed with lactic acid. The store had some lactic acid, so I added that to the boil (5 milliliters). Anybody had experience with lactic acid?

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Here was my recipe:
steep:
4 oz belgian aromatic
2 oz belgian caramunich

boil for 60 min (4 gallons):
5 lb extra-light DME
.5 oz simcoe @12% AA
5 milliliters lactic acid

at 15 min til flameout:
2.5 lb table sugar
1 lb extra-light DME
.25 oz simcoe
1 tsp irish moss

at 5 min til flameout:
.25 oz simcoe

OG turned out to be 1.075
FG should be 1.016 or lower... to turn out 8% ABV.

oh yeah and the color turned out perfect, kind of a pale yellow-orange...

You can certainly add lactic acid to taste. I don't know how much.... I had a half batch of Berliner Weiss I tried to sour with grain that didn't get sour enough I'll be adding acid to when I put it on tap this week. I'm going to start with 1Tbsp and taste, I suspect it will take a fair amount.