On-line order in Canada (Montreal)

Hi all.

I want to buy ingredients for an AG SNPA and I'm having trouble finding them.

My LHBS (L'Atelier Biere et Vin) is mainly into wine and has a limited range of beer stuff. I've heard of a place called Choppe A Barrock but I don't have a car so even if they have what I want it's 2 bus and 2 metro trips just to get there.

I've found Canadian Home Brewing and Paddock Wood on the web but I'd have to place an order with both of them to get what I want. And that's just for this beer.

Northern Brewer have everything I want (and then some) but I'm a bit cautious. Being in Canada I'm worried about getting stung with a whole lot of extra charges. The NB website warns about customs brokerage fees and taxes but can't tell me what to expect to pay. Has anyone in Canada/Quebec ever ordered from them? If so, how much extra should I expect to pay?

Any other suggestions for on-line shops in Canada with a NB sized range of products?

Thanks, Jaf.

I haven't ordered brew supplies from the states, but I can tell you that you can avoid brokerage fees by making sure they ship USPS. It takes longer so that may not work if you want liquid yeast, but it's cheaper and no broker fees.

Do they even let things like grain through customs? I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of restriction on them or something.

There are a few places listed in this thread you could try ordering from. I don't think any of them are full ecommerce sites like paddockwood was though.

Online suppliers are unfortunately thin on the ground here in Canada.

Check this place out:

http://www.grainsmaltes.com/

It's just outside Montreal. They seem to have the best range of malt grain products I can find online. And the prices seem pretty good as well. I am planning an order once they get their bulk yeast in stock. They sell the 500g packs of Safale. They guy I e-mailed is not quite bilingual, but he is very friendly. He offered to ship by bus for big orders as well.

Another Montreal store:

http://www.biereetvin.com/english/english.htm

You could also ask on these forums.

http://barleyment.wort.ca/staticpages/index.php?page=faq

http://montrealers.ca/

NB usually shipps by UPS which will cost you brokerage fees.
They are expensive to order from IIRC.

Thanks for the replies everyone, this forum is great, you guys are :rockin: .

I checked out all the links and I'm following up on a couple of them. It seems Canada is sadly lacking an equivalent of Northern Brewer, ie a one stop shop for everything at low prices. (Maybe there's a good business opportunity for me ??)

It seems I'm either going to have to substitute ingredients or shop from two or three places. I'd rather not shop at two or three places because then I have two or three delivery charges.

So with the substitution in mind, what do you guys and gals think of this for a Sierra Nevada clone?

Intended recipe:
1 lb Crystal Malt 60L
11.5 lb American Pale 2 row
1/2 oz Magnum pellets 60 min
1/2 oz Perle 30 min
1 oz Cascade 10 min
2 oz Cascade 0 min
Safale US 05 or 56

Substitue recipe:
1lb Crystal Malt 45L
11.5 lb Canadian Prairie Malt 2 row
3/4 oz Northern Brewer 60 min
1/2 oz Perle 30 min (same)
1 oz Cascade 10 min (same)
2 oz Cascade 0 min (same)
Safale US 05 or 56 (same)

I can also get Crystal 77L but will this be too dark and caramely (if caramely is a word)?

I might be able to get Columbus hops instead of Northern Brewer. Would Columbus be a better choice?

I'm happy to hear about the liquid vs dry yeast argument (I know I could use White Labs WLP001 or Wyeast 1056) but please also comment on the hop and crystal malt substitution.

Thanks, Jaf.

eviljafar said:

...It seems Canada is sadly lacking an equivalent of Northern Brewer, ie a one stop shop for everything at low prices. (Maybe there's a good business opportunity for me ??)...

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I'm not sure about that. Paddockwood was excellent but they had to close up the online shop because there just didn't seem to be a market for it in Canada.

bradsul said:

I'm not sure about that. Paddockwood was excellent but they had to close up the online shop because there just didn't seem to be a market for it in Canada.

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Paddockwood still seem to have an online shop. At least I can add items to a cart and proceed to the checkout. I didn't try passed there though. But they don't seem to have any of the hops I want and I can't even find a basic 2 row malt.

Canada seems to me to be a great place for an online homebrew shop. It has a reatively small population spread over a relatively large area. But it seems others have tried and not thrived so I guess I'm just thinking wishfully.

eviljafar said:

Paddockwood still seem to have an online shop. At least I can add items to a cart and proceed to the checkout. I didn't try passed there though. But they don't seem to have any of the hops I want and I can't even find a basic 2 row malt.

Canada seems to me to be a great place for an online homebrew shop. It has a reatively small population spread over a relatively large area. But it seems others have tried and not thrived so I guess I'm just thinking wishfully.

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At the end of the summer they decided to close up the online store. They're still taking orders until they run out of stock or they decide just to shut it down. Check out their main page for more info. For what it's worth I agree with you, it seems like Canada should be perfect for an online supply. Just doesn't seem to match with reality.

Thanks for the background/insight/info and especially the links Brad. Skinaney Brewing was one on the post you suggested I looked at, and they look good so far. I'm just waiting for a reply with an all inclusive price (tax, shipping, etc). You're an AG brewer I think? Are you familiar with SNPA? What do you think of my substitute recipe?

I'm an AG brewer, yes. I've never had any SNPA, but your recipe looks good! You don't get a lot of flavour from the bittering hops so they aren't as crucial as long as you get the same IBU level.

I've never used Columbus, but I do like Northern Brewer. If you can get a slightly darker crystal malt I would go for it. The 40L won't give you quite as much of the caramel flavour as a 60L would. I didn't even know there was 77L but if you can get that I would go for that instead of the 40L. There is quite a bit of hops in that recipe and you want to balance it out a little bit more.

i needed a ranco temp controller for my freezer and could not find one in canada so i bit the bullet and ordered it from northern brewer 2 weeks ago with 3 pounds of hops to make the order worthwhile.
this is the breakdown:
controller 56.00
hops 33.00
ups 18.00

total from norther brewer 107.00 not too bad i figured

then ups got to my door wanting another 56.00!!
39.00 brokerage and the rest gst and pst
could not find usps option.

morale of the story - be real careful, cross border shipping can hurt

rod said:

i needed a ranco temp controller for my freezer and could not find one in canada so i bit the bullet and ordered it from northern brewer 2 weeks ago with 3 pounds of hops to make the order worthwhile.
this is the breakdown:
controller 56.00
hops 33.00
ups 18.00

total from norther brewer 107.00 not too bad i figured

then ups got to my door wanting another 56.00!!
39.00 brokerage and the rest gst and pst
could not find usps option.

morale of the story - be real careful, cross border shipping can hurt

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I won't order anything UPS anymore for that very reason. I just ordered a couple items from kegworks.com (which is in the US) because they use some kind of service Canada Post offers called Borderfree. Your customs and taxes and shipping are all paid at time of order.

I ordered an aerator kit from AHB earlier in the year, when UPS showed up at my door they held my package hostage for another fee that was almost equal to the cost of the item I bought. This was ON TOP of shipping fees. UPS sucks.

learned my lesson but with paddock-wood closing down it is going to be tough to be a canadian home brewer.

It's definitely not looking good unless you're close to a reasonable (L)HBS. I'm doing ok with my shop down in Hamilton. They have a good selection but given the small market they don't have the less common malts and hops. But then again I don't make some of the less common beers (mostly English stuff) so I'm not feeling the lack of selection too badly.

Who knows, maybe someone will step up and fill the void. I'd love to but Paddockwood had a pretty good selection and reasonable prices and they couldn't stay afloat, I don't have that kind of stomach for risks in business.

Did you take a look at

http://www.grainsmaltes.com/

It's all french but it's not too hard to figure out, and there's a good selection of malts and other odds and ends.

These prices might not include tax+etc+etc (I am really getting sick of the +tax+etc+etc, just give me a f*ing price, please!!) but skinaneybrewing.com quote on their website 2 row malt for $1.60 kg while others charge up to $3 a kg. They also do hop pellets for about $1 an ounce while others charge $2.10 an oz.

That seems like a bargain compared to the other stores. I'm still waiting for a price on everything plus the etc+etc but they seem to look good. If their prices for grain and hops turn out to be good, too bad they don't do equipment as well.

mr x said:

Did you take a look at

http://www.grainsmaltes.com/

It's all french but it's not too hard to figure out, and there's a good selection of malts and other odds and ends.

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I did take a look, thanks for the link again. I'll get my wife to translate the bits I didn't understand (she's bilingual). Do they deliver? The rhizomes have me interested. I used to grow tomatoes, maybe it's time I changed to hops! I only have to wait a few months but I've got nothing much else to do! (except think about beer and fishing)

Skinnaney isn't too bad. I've ordered form them and Tracy is very prompt and easy to deal with. Their grain selection is limited though.

Well, I would suggest my LHBS, but you said you don't have transporation. They are small but have a pretty good selection of ingredients and have good prices plus no sales tax (New Hampshire U.S.A) It would be about a little more than a 2 hour drive from Montreal though. They do have online sales also, but again, same shipping issues. Though they may do USPS. Mount Washington Homebrew if you want to check it out. It ain't fancy, but I get most of what I neeed. Good luck.

Yves at grainsmaltes got me a quote to ship a large order by bus. I'm assuming they will ship by mail as well.

knights of Gambrinus said:

Well, I would suggest my LHBS, but you said you don't have transporation.

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A car, a sunny day and the prospect of a beer at a brewbar or two would have me up at 6am doing the homebrew shop circuit.

Having no car makes it cheaper to look for a shop that delivers.

Grey skies are mine (until my last batch is ready)

I order from the US regularly, because I like the ease of one stop shopping. I get my supplies from here. They deliver USPS, unless directed otherwise. I have received supplies both UPS and USPS, and UPS not faster, just more expensive. Brokerage fees can be as much as 30%of the TOTAL cost of your order (including shipping and handling). Your parcel will also spend a few days at a customs house at the border, delaying its arrival to you.

That being said, grain and Malt extract are heavy to ship, so it will cost you.

UPS is only an issue if you order through the cheapest method which is UPS *GROUND*. Spend a couple of dollars more for one of the better services like UPS *EXPEDITED* and you don't pay the brokerage fees.

See the table here at the UPS website:

http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html

You'll still possibly pay duties and taxes but that's normal for any company as it's the law.

USPS is still your best bet as often smaller packages from places that don't 'seem' like commerical places will not get flagged and get through without any extra duties or taxes (or the small shop is nice enough to mark the price as low).

Kal

kal said:

UPS is only an issue if you order through the cheapest method which is UPS *GROUND*. Spend a couple of dollars more for one of the better services like UPS *EXPEDITED* and you don't pay the brokerage fees.

See the table here at the UPS website:

http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html

You'll still possibly pay duties and taxes but that's normal for any company as it's the law.

USPS is still your best bet as often smaller packages from places that don't 'seem' like commerical places will not get flagged and get through without any extra duties or taxes (or the small shop is nice enough to mark the price as low).

Kal

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The problem is that every online HBS supply I've looked at offers only one method of shipping to Canada at all, UPS ground. At least that was the case the last time I ordered, maybe things have changed.

kal said:

Spend a couple of dollars more for one of the better services like UPS *EXPEDITED* and you don't pay the brokerage fees.

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It's been my experience that those services cost more than a couple of dollars more.

bradsul said:

The problem is that every online HBS supply I've looked at offers only one method of shipping to Canada at all, UPS ground. At least that was the case the last time I ordered, maybe things have changed.

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Yes, that definitely is the problem: Usually they only list "UPS" as the shipping method which 99% of the time means UPS GROUND. Try asking. I've found that most places just don't know about the brokering fee so they have no problems taking a few more of your bucks for better shipping. The risk however is that they they'll stay they'll ship UPS expedited and screw up and still ship UPS ground. In that case you can simply refuse it when it arrives since well (IMHO) the shipper messed up.

Kal