parti-gyle help

I'll be brewing parti-gyle style tomorrow!
I was hoping to get some suggestions for the second batch.
Any input would be great!

The first beer will be an IPA

22# 2 row
2# crystal 60
1# carapils
1#flaked wheat
2 oz Warrior 15-17 aa @60 min
4 oz Simcoe 11.9 aa
6 oz Cascade 6.3 aa
2 packets Winsor dry yeast.

The Hop additions are; 2oz Warrior @ start of the boil

Mix 2 oz Cascade and 2oz Simcoe. Divide into 5 equal amounts and add 1/5 to the boil @ 20 min, 15 min, 10 min, 5 min and 0 min.

The last 6 oz of hops will be dry hopped in the secondary.

Dough in, mash @ 153 deg, sparge with 170 deg until I recover 12 gallons. start my boil.

The second runnings are what I'm wondering about?

I was thinking to just continue to sparge until I got 6 more gallons. Then I was going to add to that untill I get the OG up to about 1.045

I have an entire Mr. Beer kit that I got last year for Christmas and about 3# of light DME.

I'm really not sure what hops to use and what the second beer will come out like.

Suggestions?

Bull

Okay, first off, you need to mash in again, not just let the sparge continue. Parti-gyle brewing in this instance requires a second mash with hotter liquor than the first mash then sparging the second batch until you reach the desired pre-boil brew length or pre-boil gravity, whichever comes first.

I have no real idea where you'll end up. When I parti-gyle, the first batch is generally above 1.100 for a second wort of ~1.035 without additions. With such a massive grist in the first runnings, efficiency is generally relatively low, leaving sufficient "stuff" in the mash tun for the second mash to extract.

Me, I'd sprinkle some milled black patent malt or roasted barley on top of the mash before sparging the second runnings to get a nice dark color, get the OG of that wort to ~1.035, hop it gently, and call it Mild. But then I've a weakness for Mild.

Cheers,

Bob

I understand that traditionally partigyle was achieved via the batch sparge process but I don't see any reason why selective collection of a continuous sparge couldn't yield the same result.

I think the biggest problem the OP is going to run into is not having enough sugar for all this wort. The bulk of the sugar is going to be in the 11gal first runnings leaving almost nothing for a small beer, but I assume that's why he brought up 3lb of extract.

26 pounds of grain in 17 gallons preboil would yield a max OG of 1.055 preboil at 100% efficiency.

I think it's far more common to try to derive a really big wort at 6 gallons and then use the remaining runoff for 6 gallons of small beer. I thing your mash is going to be pretty well blown out by the time you get your first beer.

Bob said:

Okay, first off, you need to mash in again, not just let the sparge continue. Parti-gyle brewing in this instance requires a second mash with hotter liquor than the first mash then sparging the second batch until you reach the desired pre-boil brew length or pre-boil gravity, whichever comes first.

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Sounds like you're saying to not mash-out before the first running. Instead, after you've completed the lauter for the first batch, add hot liquor to the mash to raise the temperature and let it sit at an upper saccharification temperature in an attempt to get further conversion.

Never heard of this. Is it realistic?

How about this? Mash until conversion is complete. Lauter into 5 gallon pails until your runnings have an SG of 1.010. Blend to get desired gravity and volume for first beer. Use extract and top-off water if needed for second batch.

I think that's a good plan. If you don't collect in distinct containers, the opportunity to do gravity blending is gone.

AnOldUR said:

Sounds like you're saying to not mash-out before the first running. Instead, after you've completed the lauter for the first batch, add hot liquor to the mash to raise the temperature and let it sit at an upper saccharification temperature in an attempt to get further conversion.

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Kind of. Sparging at a "normal" sparge temperature will eventually reach mashout temperatures without any attempt to stop it.

I can't claim any knowledge of the science behind the process. I just know from experience that it works. I do it like this:

Run the first gyle per normal. While the first gyle is boiling, mash in the same grain with higher-temperature liquor. Allow this to rest while you boil and cast the first gyle normally and clean the kettle. Then sparge the second gyle off the mash, collecting what you will. Then boil and cast the second gyle per normal procedure.

Now, this has the possibility of collecting a second gyle high in tannins and other undesirable detritus. I haven't found this effect so long as I don't try to get a second gyle out of a grist which provides an OG for the first gyle of >1.100. I've never tried parti-gyle with grists providing less than that for the first gyle.

I suspect your second gyle OG will be very low, and the tail runnings mostly tannin-laden liquor, if you try to sparge for a full five gallons.

Theoretically, you could collect the second gyle while carefully monitoring the runoff gravity, stopping the collection when the runnings go below 1.010-1.012; then you can measure the second gyle's pre-boil gravity and add liquor/extract to reach your desired second-gyle OG.

How about this? Mash until conversion is complete. Lauter into 5 gallon pails until your runnings have an SG of 1.010. Blend to get desired gravity and volume for first beer. Use extract and top-off water if needed for second batch.

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I suppose you could do that. I wouldn't, but you could. If you do, write it up for us, yeah? I for one would be interested in reading the results.

Cheers,

Bob

I'll bump my 2 row up to 25lbs. as that is all that I have left. That should help.

I was targeting 1.085 for my first beer and about 1.025 for my second runnings.

If I'm understanding correctly, my mash will be about 165 degrees after I sparge out 11 or so gallons. Should I then remash with 165 degree water for another 30 min or so? Then sparge out to my pre boil volume, check my gravity, make additions, etc?

I'm really concerned that mashing for the second time at 165 will give me an astringent wort and if thats the case I'll just sparge out more and make a bigger batch.

I'd really like to get 2 different beers out of the same session.

I am also picking up a pound of crystal 60 to steep in the second batch.

Thanks for any help.

Bull

bullinachinashop said:

Should I then remash with 165 degree water for another 30 min or so? Then sparge out to my pre boil volume, check my gravity, make additions, etc?

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To me it looks like Bob's re-mash technique is nothing more than stalling until his brew pot frees up. Without hearing more about it I would not suggest doing this. As I type this I’m drinking a parti-gyled beer. It was the second runnings from a RIS. Rather than have an extremely low gravity beer, I only lautered 3¾ gallons for the 2nd runnings shooting for a OG of 1.040. This allowed me to use my small 5 gallon pot and boil it on the stovetop while the RIS was boiling on the main burner. Can’t complain about getting 3 gallons of top quality beer for free.

bullinachinashop said:

I'd really like to get 2 different beers out of the same session.

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Beside the difference in OG, the only difference between my RIS and the RIS Jr was the hopping. The RIS was First Gold and Williamette. The Jr was all Amarillo. Also the RIS will be wood aged.

Well I've decided to try a second mash for 10 min with about 3 gallons @ 165 and then collect my runnings as a batch sparge and check my gravity to see where I'm at.

If I'm below 1.025, I'll just add it to my boil.

If I'm more like 1.035, I'll add to it with the Mr. Beer kit ingredients, 1 #crystal 20 and DME, Hop it with an oz of cascade, finish it with an oz of hallertau, and pitch some nottingham on it.

This should make a nice light amber ale.

Bull

AnOldUR said:

To me it looks like Bob's re-mash technique is nothing more than stalling until his brew pot frees up.

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100% right! It's a very, very old historical brewing technique.

Bob

Wow, what a marathon! 8 hours of brewing!

I now know the limits of my 48 qt. mashtun. 28# of grain and 8.5 gal of water.

I missed my mash temp by 3 degrees so I started my mash @150 and mashed for 90 minutes.

I then sparged out 12 gal over 1 hour and stared my boil with a preboil gravity of 1.070.

My efficiency comes out to 84%

While that was going, I remashed with 3 gal of 165 degree water for 20 min and then ran out my tun, collecting almost 6 gal for my second batch.

Gravity was very low @ 1.015. I was surprised the flavor was good and not astringent at all.

I decided to add to it and see if I could make something out of it.

I added the ingredients form the Mr. Beer kit, 1# light DME and 1# of crystal 20 steeped.

Hopped with 1 oz cascade for 60 min and 1 oz hallertau at flameout.

I boiled for an hour and ended up with a gravity of 1.034

The second beer tasted great going into the primary and I'm excited to see how it comes out.

15 gallons racked.:rockin:

Bull

Bob said:

Quote:
How about this? Mash until conversion is complete. Lauter into 5 gallon pails until your runnings have an SG of 1.010. Blend to get desired gravity and volume for first beer. Use extract and top-off water if needed for second batch.

I suppose you could do that. I wouldn't, but you could. If you do, write it up for us, yeah? I for one would be interested in reading the results.

Cheers,

Bob

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I've done a variation on this technique for the last 45 brew days.
Basically, I mash to get 13-14 gallons of runnings and split that between two brew pots.
I've gone from using all the first two runnings in the big beer to a 50/50 split of the runnings. I generally end up adding some capping (specialty) grains for the small end of a very big beer, or to get a different color/sweeteness.

When I started doing this, I would measure the gravity of each of the four runnings, and then adjust the splits accordingly. I've done it enough times now that I can predict what split I'll need ahead of time.