Hot breaks and hop management

I use a 7.5 gallon kettle for brewing extract + specialty grain + hop recipes. So far, so good. However, what tends to happen is that the foam that builds before the hot break keeps going for quite a time (10-20 minutes) before the hot break. In that time, the hops bubble up with the foam and coat the sides of the kettle above the wort.

I have avoided the boil over so far by managing the flame, but I wonder whether I am cheating my beer of character when what seems like a fair amount of hops is out of the wort. I scrape it back down into the wort as best I can.

Is there a better way? What do you all do to keep the hops where they belong? I am guessing hop bags would help, but are there other ways?

What I do (taken from the Palmer book) is add my hops after the extract goes through the hot break. I add the extract, boil it for a bit, 10-20 minutes, however long it takes, then add the hops and start my timer. Seems to work well for me.

catfish said:

What I do (taken from the Palmer book) is add my hops after the extract goes through the hot break. I add the extract, boil it for a bit, 10-20 minutes, however long it takes, then add the hops and start my timer. Seems to work well for me.

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Catfish: That would work well the the hops to boil for the entire hour, but doesn't that make your beer darker by boiling an extra 20 mins?

I scrape mine back down into the wort the every time any hops stick to the sides.

that's what i do too. i do 90 minute boils and start my hop additions after the first 15 minutes. and yes, HB 99, it does make the beer darker, but also enhances the maltiness of the beer. for an extract brewer that can't lose that much volume, a 75 min boil would work, and it will make it a little darker, but i don't think it would make that much a differnce on the SRM scale? plus, i just use my big stainless spoon and swirl wort around to get the hop gunk off the sides of the kettle if they boil up when added (which they normaly do).

DeRoux's Broux said:

that's what i do too. i do 90 minute boils and start my hop additions after the first 15 minutes. and yes, HB 99, it does make the beer darker, but also enhances the maltiness of the beer. for an extract brewer that can't lose that much volume, a 75 min boil would work, and it will make it a little darker, but i don't think it would make that much a differnce on the SRM scale? plus, i just use my big stainless spoon and swirl wort around to get the hop gunk off the sides of the kettle if they boil up when added (which they normaly do).

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DRR: Thanks, but it was a rhetorical question.

This is one of the reasons why I always recommend using as much extra light/light malt as you can in the boil before use of the darker malts to bring the brew into style.

Boiling the lightest malt possible does not impart too much carmelization coloring to the brew as if you started off with amber or canned malt for instance.

All in the learning process.

I also wait for the hot break before adding the hops. I've found putting the hops in earlier causes too much foaming. I keep the wort to a roiling boil, but not a vigorius boil, where the foam layer is about 1/2 inch thick.

david_42 said:

I also wait for the hot break before adding the hops. I've found putting the hops in earlier causes too much foaming. I keep the wort to a roiling boil, but not a vigorius boil, where the foam layer is about 1/2 inch thick.

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That's a good idea for all-grainers.

I use DME and some grain. I try my best to keep the color as low as I can get it that's why I use a lot of Extralight DME as my base.

I've tried late-brewing (boiling only 1-2 lbs of DME for the full 60 mins and adding the remaining DME after 45 mins) with some success.

As for the hop problem , I use whole hops which won't ride up as easy on the foam as the dusty pellets. Just a suggestion...

Sudster said:

As for the hop problem , I use whole hops which won't ride up as easy on the foam as the dusty pellets. Just a suggestion...

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You are correct. There are a lot less hops to scrape back down.

Thor, check out freshops.com. You can order whole hops by the oz and it's a good outfit. If you brew alot check out hopsdirect.com they sell whole hops by the pound. Whole hops will solve your boil break /hop delimma.

Sudster said:

Thor, check out freshops.com. You can order whole hops by the oz and it's a good outfit. If you brew alot check out hopsdirect.com they sell whole hops by the pound. Whole hops will solve your boil break /hop delimma.

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You just mentioned something I stated earlier in another thread perhaps...does it seem strange to you that since you should use 10% more hops when using whole flowers that they should be packaged 1.1 oz instead of just 1 oz? Hmmm?!

Just an observation....

homebrewer_99 said:

You just mentioned something I stated earlier in another thread perhaps...does it seem strange to you that since you should use 10% more hops when using whole flowers that they should be packaged 1.1 oz instead of just 1 oz? Hmmm?!

Just an observation....

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I think it's strange that pellets don't come in 25.515 gram packages.

Yeah, just corporations trying to maximize profits..I suspect.

Sudster said:

Yeah, just corporations trying to maximize profits..I suspect.

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Or not thinking!

Are the recipes stating 1oz talkng about fresh or pellets? and does 10% relly make any difference.
I suspect the AA rating from crop to crop could vary by 10% any way.

Well, I guess 1 oz of 5% AA would be easier math than 1.1 oz of 3.5.

orfy said:

Are the recipes stating 1oz talkng about fresh or pellets? and does 10% relly make any difference.
I suspect the AA rating from crop to crop could vary by 10% any way.

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The recipes in Clone Brews and Beer Captured are for pellets. IMHO 10% probably doesn't make that much difference, unless you're talking big hoppy beers...if you're talking 80-100 IBU's then 10% probably would be noticable.

I took an off-taste seminar last weekend. One of the exercises was ranking the bitterness of four samples. The samples were 9, 20, 30 and 40 IBUs. Most people had at least one pair swapped in the ranking, myself included. Worrying about 0.1 oz. (or 0.25 to 1.7 IBUs) is being really ???

david_42 said:

I took an off-taste seminar last weekend. One of the exercises was ranking the bitterness of four samples. The samples were 9, 20, 30 and 40 IBUs. Most people had at least one pair swapped in the ranking, myself included. Worrying about 0.1 oz. (or 0.25 to 1.7 IBUs) is being really ???

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I understand what you are saying. That's kind of my point also.

Everywhere you read says to use 10% more hops when using whole versus pellets.

How important is 10% more?

On the other hand even using 10% more just doesn't seem to be enough. The brew is still a tad sweeter than expected.

homebrewer_99 said:

DRR: Thanks, but it was a rhetorical question.

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sorry! we have a tuff time reading each other don't we?

that's the cool thing about ProMash. when you make a recipe, it makes the chanegs for you an the AA's depending on if use put whole or pellet hops in the recipe. to me, it does make a differnece in the bittering hop.

DeRoux's Broux said:

sorry! we have a tuff time reading each other don't we?

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Not really. OK, sometimes.

Some stuff just doesn't translate well into words, like sarcasm, and facial expressions do.

But it's still fun!!

Long boils actually can be great. Don't sweat an extra 20 minutes. Keep a low boil and stir frequently.

I brewed a dopplebock once, with a 4-HOUR boil before adding any hops.

It was so silky, sweet, incredibly smooth. I wanted to drink the wort!

But, I used WL Edinbrough yeast. That ruined my batch, as it did my buddy's Scotch Ale. It made both batches taste like band-aids. Two batches, brewed seperately at two different places, with the same ruining taste. That was a $60 batch down the drain (not to mention my first partial mash). His costed even more.

I can't wait to do this again with another dark ale, probably the next batch. I'm thinking a cream stout.

The happy mug said:

But, I used WL Edinbrough yeast. That ruined my batch, as it did my buddy's Scotch Ale. It made both batches taste like band-aids. Two batches, brewed seperately at two different places, with the same ruining taste. That was a $60 batch down the drain (not to mention my first partial mash). His costed even more.

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Well you had me totally freaked out...a batch of Scotch Ale that I had much emotional capital invested in was brewed using WL Edinburgh Ale Yeast, and I suddenly had visions of a second straight batch down the drain. So I tossed one in the fridge (5 days before the three weeks I was gonna give it) just to ease my mind. I can report that:

1) I can't detect any band-aid taste (I must have gotten lucky), and

2) This stuff is already well carbonated, I thought it would still be flatish, and

3) This is really good stuff.

El Pistolero said:

Well you had me totally freaked out...a batch of Scotch Ale that I had much emotional capital invested in was brewed using WL Edinburgh Ale Yeast, and I suddenly had visions of a second straight batch down the drain. So I tossed one in the fridge (5 days before the three weeks I was gonna give it) just to ease my mind. I can report that:

1) I can't detect any band-aid taste (I must have gotten lucky), and

2) This stuff is already well carbonated, I thought it would still be flatish, and

3) This is really good stuff.

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Yep, that Edinburg Ale yeast is good stuff. You've got to ferment cool though. I'm guessing that they fermented too high or had sanitation issues. Glad to hear your Wee Heavy turned out good. Mine is the best I've ever had though.

I need to get you a couple of these for a critique...you heading down this way anytime soon?

It'll be Christmas before I do. Just set a couple back for me and I'll do the same. We'll get a swap worked out in a month or so.

ScottT said:

We'll get a swap worked out in a month or so.

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Sounds good...by then I'll have a Hefe, and and DunkelHefe, and a Hobgoblin for you to try too.

It's not my sanitation, I am certain. It was a higher temp, however. The guy in my brewstore told me it would be fine.

Hadn't seen him before or since. Hmmm.